Judgemental Protestants

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Wannano said:
Yes, I agree, we who are non-Catholic deserve an authoritative answer that isn’t dependent on the traditionalism or liberalism of the individual Catholic person answering.

I don’t waste my time worrying about it when a JW or Mormon etc tells me I am headed in the wrong direction. I have enough respect for the Catholic Church that if it is telling me I won’t make it to heaven it has my attention. My current understanding is that is no longer the official position of the Catholic Church. Therefore, I feel we are all brothers and sisters in Christ’s body of believers and if I am just one of the lowly toes in the body I am quite satisfied.
Those dirty stinking twisted insignificant toes are essential to maintaining the balance of the whole body.
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Refreshing to hear, Wannano.

I felt the same way as a protestant. The ancient Churches(RC/EO) had my attention from the start because they have the pedigree. The restoration movements like CoC and LDS were dismissed before opening the book. No pedigree= modern opinions of men which are a dime a dozen.

In regards to salvation, the Church has even gone as far as saying that suicide might not damn a soul eternally. Something that I was taught as a protestant would send you to hell. So I think the Church is saying our teachings do not change, but we don’t know the circumstances and heart of the individual in question and leave it to the mercy of God.
 
Michael68 said:
I am of the opinion, and this is MY opinion, that preachers who preach against Christ’s Church founded on Peter, will have a hard time getting in.
Just my opinion, I repeat, my opinion
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I think 99% of them do it out of sheer ignorance. And that is a plausible excuse taken into account.

I have seen some like John Hagee go from extreme Catholic hater(calling it wh#re of Babylon) to quoting the Pope in his sermons over the past 8 years. Once he was forced to educate himself on true Catholic teaching thanks to the McCain backlash.
 
Michael68 said:
I am of the opinion, and this is MY opinion, that preachers who preach against Christ’s Church founded on Peter, will have a hard time getting in.
Just my opinion, I repeat, my opinion
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Ok, thanks for sharing your opinion. Within the realm of your opinion would you clarify a couple aspects for me? Are you referring to preachers as those in a leadership position or just protestant lay people who have their opinions? I was raised in a church that does not feel that Christ was referring to Peter as the rock. However, I was not subjected to preaching “against” the Catholic Church as apparently is the case in some protestant churches, rather, we were taught a different understanding of Christ’s teaching.
 
rcwitness said:
If you are referring to Unam Sanctam, I belief it’s principle stands. When the Church declares that those in separated communities were born into and through these communities have a saving faith, it is doing so in context that it is through no fault of their own that they are separated. The Holy Body and Blood of His Eucharist was given to unite and keep us in Himself. To be saved and then knowingly reject this, is to be in danger of denying the faith which brought them to salvation by belief and Baptism.
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Rc, what is the “this?”
 
Wannano said:
Ok, thanks for sharing your opinion. Within the realm of your opinion would you clarify a couple aspects for me? Are you referring to preachers as those in a leadership position or just protestant lay people who have their opinions? I was raised in a church that does not feel that Christ was referring to Peter as the rock. However, I was not subjected to preaching “against” the Catholic Church as apparently is the case in some protestant churches, rather, we were taught a different understanding of Christ’s teaching.
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I am speaking of the Preachers/Pastors in the pulpits.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
Refreshing to hear, Wannano.

I felt the same way as a protestant. The ancient Churches(RC/EO) had my attention from the start because they have the pedigree. The restoration movements like CoC and LDS were dismissed before opening the book. No pedigree= modern opinions of men which are a dime a dozen.

In regards to salvation, the Church has even gone as far as saying that suicide might not damn a soul eternally. Something that I was taught as a protestant would send you to hell. So I think the Church is saying our teachings do not change, but we don’t know the circumstances and heart of the individual in question and leave it to the mercy of God.
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What is so interesting to me is that it appears to be obvious that different geographic locations must apply doctrine differently in both C and P circles. I was raised in total agreement with your current teaching regarding suicide but where I lived as a boy in the 50’s a Catholic suicide was was a trip to hell.
 
TC3033 said:
Thank you, I will consider myself the lucky one.

Rather than hi-jack this thread to defend my church, I’ll just choose to move on. It is a bible centric church, where…funny enough…we study and read many of the same bible stories that the Catholic Church does and then take those teachings and apply them to life today. There a some times where I couldn’t tell you if I’m listening to a non-denom or Catholic sermon, depending upon the priest. I’ve just been taken back by this board a little bit to find out how distained non-denominational Christians are.
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FWIW, I have many times considered switching to a Protestant forum, but I don’t because I don’t believe that things would be better there – just turned around, so to speak. (Oddly enough, so far no Protestant I know, either through CAF or otherwise, has attempted to persuade me that there’s a Protestant forum that *would *be better for me to be on. :hmmm:)
 
Michael68 said:
I am speaking of the Preachers/Pastors in the pulpits.
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And so to further clarify…is teaching a different understanding in your opinion teaching against the Catholic Church? Or are you talking of those who castigate and ridicule your church from their pulpits?
 
Wannano said:
And so to further clarify…is teaching a different understanding in your opinion teaching against the Catholic Church? Or are you talking of those who castigate and ridicule your church from their pulpits?
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The ones who teach we are the whore of Babylon and the pope is the anti-christ, etc. That nonsense
 
rcwitness said:
If you are referring to Unam Sanctam, I belief it’s principle stands. When the Church declares that those in separated communities were born into and through these communities have a saving faith, it is doing so in context that it is through no fault of their own that they are separated. The Holy Body and Blood of His Eucharist was given to unite and keep us in Himself. To be saved and then knowingly reject THIS, is to be in danger of denying the faith which brought them to salvation by belief and Baptism.
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Wannano:
The Catholic call to His Eucharist table.
 
Wannano said:
Thank for the clarification, it helps me understand. I was not subjected to that.
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Its a subject that’s sore with me. I am better! I used to see red when I was accused of being in the whore of Babylon. I’ve heard preachers say this live with my own ears. I just can’t see how any of that helpd the seperated brethren. In my personal life the protestants who profess this belief are usually the most vocal and aggressively seek to “save me”
 
rcwitness said:
If you are referring to Unam Sanctam, I belief it’s principle stands. When the Church declares that those in separated communities were born into and through these communities have a saving faith, it is doing so in context that it is through no fault of their own that they are separated. The Holy Body and Blood of His Eucharist was given to unite and keep us in Himself. To be saved and then knowingly reject this, is to be in danger of denying the faith which brought them to salvation by belief and Baptism.
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I have trouble putting this all together in my mind. Having been raised with a different understanding that still makes as much or more sense to me than your understanding somehow is different in my mind than “rejecting” something. To be “in danger” of denying the faith is nebulous to me. Somehow it seems like doublespeak to me. Almost would be easier to formulate for me if I was still a “heretic.”

Do you understand what I am saying?
 
Michael68 said:
Its a subject that’s sore with me. I am better! I used to see red when I was accused of being in the whore of Babylon. I’ve heard preachers say this live with my own ears. I just can’t see how any of that helpd the seperated brethren. In my personal life the protestants who profess this belief are usually the most vocal and aggressively seek to “save me”
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I suppose that if they truly believe what they say then they are sincere in their concern for your spiritual well being. Do you suppose there is a chance we are all sincerely wrong on some things?
 
Wannano said:
I suppose that if they truly believe what they say then they are sincere in their concern for your spiritual well being. Do you suppose there is a chance we are all sincerely wrong on some things?
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The whore of Babylon thing I just can’t get past. It makes no sense! I’ve learned not to lose it as quick! I even had a lady who was a friend of a friend show me a picture on her phone of cardinals and bishops wearing red and purple and that was her definitive proof!
 
Wannano said:
I have trouble putting this all together in my mind. Having been raised with a different understanding that still makes as much or more sense to me than your understanding somehow is different in my mind than “rejecting” something. To be “in danger” of denying the faith is nebulous to me. Somehow it seems like doublespeak to me. Almost would be easier to formulate for me if I was still a “heretic.”

Do you understand what I am saying?
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I think this just goes to show how deep the wounds to unity are. And men from both sides of the reformation were to blame. Now, the children born into and through these communities may or may not be culpable for never receiving His Eucharist.

It’s like St James said, “Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.”

If one does not understand that it’s the Lord and not merely “His Church”, that calls us to His Catholic Eucharist, then they are not entirely culpable. Those who heard Him say this in John 6, heard it directly from Him. Or those who believe every Communion is the same and constitutes obedience to His command, they are not fully culpable of this sin.
 
Michael68 said:
The whore of Babylon thing I just can’t get past. It makes no sense! I’ve learned not to lose it as quick! I even had a lady who was a friend of a friend show me a picture on her phone of cardinals and bishops wearing red and purple and that was her definitive proof!
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Proof of what? That is hilarious.
 
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