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wabrams
Guest
.
But do you have a link for the previous article you posted?
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But do you have a link for the previous article you posted?
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leaner
Guest
You can see at the bottom it’s from mothering magazine – for future research you can always type in the magazine title, and the author (which is what I did) at www.findarticles.com (I’m sure it would work with google too)
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0838/is_2003_May-June/ai_102791856
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0838/is_2003_May-June/ai_102791856
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wabrams
Guest
Thanks for the link. I could see it was from Mothering Magazine, but I just don’t like to do someone elses research.
On the other hand I wonder if this doctor has done any recent research since that article is 7 years old.
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leaner
Guest
Well, you can bet if he hasn’t there are plenty who have; ya just gotta be willing to look – but I dont’ want to do your research for you…
So at least I’ve settled wether or not I’m just an emotional basket case on the issues of c-sections…?
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Jenlyn
Guest
I did for my first child. I wanted to do everything naturally, the Bradley method influencing me. So they tried to induce me with potoson(sp). The next day I lost sight in my left and had a grandma siezure with the hospital going code blue. By the way did I mention I was pre-eclamptic when I decided not to have the voluntary c-section. When I went eclamptic I woke up in ICU 2 days later the size of the bed, my mom didn’t even recognize me, with a priest doing the sacrament of the sick over me. Later that day I realized I had a baby girl, who was in NICU in a hospital 45 minutes away. I didn’t get to see her until she was a week old because I was in hospital for a while recovering.
The good news is I’m totally healthy and so is she. The even better news is that I’ve had 3 VBACs.
Peace,
Jen
The good news is I’m totally healthy and so is she. The even better news is that I’ve had 3 VBACs.
Peace,
Jen
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Katie1723
Guest
I have been a Maternity tech for over 25 years. In that time, I have seen the good and the bad. There have been times when waiting would have been prudent. There are times when there was no time. But over all I think that the Doctors I worked with made the right decision. No one died because they didn’t have a C section. No one died because they did either. Any physician worth the med school he went to, would not deliberately put a mom or baby in jeopardy. There was one case however where a father refused his wife a c section because"that’s for whiners" and he very nearly lost his wife. And let me tell you, I wouldn’t have had it any other way for my daughter when she had her c section…we very nearly lost my grand daughter because she was breech and by the time my daughter came to the hospital she was already 7 cms. SO don’t put down c sections.
Christian4Life…I wish you the best in whatever you chose, but stop telling others things you know nothing about. It is hysteria like yours that causes more problems than a c section you felt was unwarranted.
Kathy
Christian4Life…I wish you the best in whatever you chose, but stop telling others things you know nothing about. It is hysteria like yours that causes more problems than a c section you felt was unwarranted.
Kathy
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BlindSheep
Guest
Everyone, please try to be calm and charitable. It seems there are a lot of misunderstandings going on in this thread, and everyone needs to just take a deep breath, step back, and try to see where others are coming from.
Christian4Life started by pointing out the very well-documented fact that the US C-section rate is too high, and that many unneccesary C-sections are being performed. Many posters responded with their own stories of C-secions which were medically necessary - and, truly, there are situations where a C-section can be life saving. Christian4life agreed with that. Another poster is concerned that women will second guess their doctors in a situation where a C-section would save their babies lives. However, the opposite is also possible - I have heard of women who had scheduled C-sections on the doctor’s advice, only to find the baby was premature. I have heard of nurses who held a baby in the birth canal to prevent it from being born until the doctor arrived, and this resulted in the baby’s death. Reading about births, you will find stories of doctors saving lives, and stories of doctors decisions resulting in death - stories of mothers who saved their babies by going against medical advice as well as those whose babies died.
Both doctors and mothers are fallible. Doctors may have a medical degree, but they may not always have the most up to date information, or, sadly, they may not always make their patient’s best interests their first priority. Mothers usually care more about their children than anyone else, but they can also make mistakes. There is an elemant of chance and uncertainty to birth, as with all of life, and to look at someone’s birth experience and say “you should have done this” or “if you hadn’t done that” is futile. There comes a point when we must accept that neither we, nor our doctors, have absolute control over the outcome. We must do our best to make good choices, with the knowledge we have, but ultimately it is in God’s hands. The best place, the best method, is not the same for every birth - some births require more assistance than others, some pregnancies are higher risk. All pregnant women should inform themselves, and there is nothing wrong with sharing information, but we should never judge each other, because we can neither see another’s heart, nor know what would have happened if things were done differently.
A final note to pregnant moms - I really believe the Holy Spirit will guide us in this. Pray that He will guide you in planning your child’s birth, that He will help you make the best possible decisions.
God bless you all!
Christian4Life started by pointing out the very well-documented fact that the US C-section rate is too high, and that many unneccesary C-sections are being performed. Many posters responded with their own stories of C-secions which were medically necessary - and, truly, there are situations where a C-section can be life saving. Christian4life agreed with that. Another poster is concerned that women will second guess their doctors in a situation where a C-section would save their babies lives. However, the opposite is also possible - I have heard of women who had scheduled C-sections on the doctor’s advice, only to find the baby was premature. I have heard of nurses who held a baby in the birth canal to prevent it from being born until the doctor arrived, and this resulted in the baby’s death. Reading about births, you will find stories of doctors saving lives, and stories of doctors decisions resulting in death - stories of mothers who saved their babies by going against medical advice as well as those whose babies died.
Both doctors and mothers are fallible. Doctors may have a medical degree, but they may not always have the most up to date information, or, sadly, they may not always make their patient’s best interests their first priority. Mothers usually care more about their children than anyone else, but they can also make mistakes. There is an elemant of chance and uncertainty to birth, as with all of life, and to look at someone’s birth experience and say “you should have done this” or “if you hadn’t done that” is futile. There comes a point when we must accept that neither we, nor our doctors, have absolute control over the outcome. We must do our best to make good choices, with the knowledge we have, but ultimately it is in God’s hands. The best place, the best method, is not the same for every birth - some births require more assistance than others, some pregnancies are higher risk. All pregnant women should inform themselves, and there is nothing wrong with sharing information, but we should never judge each other, because we can neither see another’s heart, nor know what would have happened if things were done differently.
A final note to pregnant moms - I really believe the Holy Spirit will guide us in this. Pray that He will guide you in planning your child’s birth, that He will help you make the best possible decisions.
God bless you all!
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StephanieC
Guest
People, people…
Everybody take a nice, deep cleansing breath with me: and IN…two, three…and OUT…two, three!
Giving birth is so intimate, so all-consuming, so overwhelming & yet so empowering…that it’s no wonder we all have such strong, personal opinions about it. Second only by child-rearing.
I’ve been a mom for only 4 months, but one thing I quickly realized was that I can always find a website to tell me anything I wanted to hear.
This post is really just to make that point, and to suggest that people are cautious with citing statistics they find on websites & automatically assuming that they’re facts. Same thing for anectdotal evidence, e.g., “my friend had a c-section go wrong, therefore they’re bad.”
I think everyone would agree that the goal is to deliver a healthy baby, no matter what.
Well said, Blind Sheep!
Everybody take a nice, deep cleansing breath with me: and IN…two, three…and OUT…two, three!
Giving birth is so intimate, so all-consuming, so overwhelming & yet so empowering…that it’s no wonder we all have such strong, personal opinions about it. Second only by child-rearing.
I’ve been a mom for only 4 months, but one thing I quickly realized was that I can always find a website to tell me anything I wanted to hear.
This post is really just to make that point, and to suggest that people are cautious with citing statistics they find on websites & automatically assuming that they’re facts. Same thing for anectdotal evidence, e.g., “my friend had a c-section go wrong, therefore they’re bad.”
I think everyone would agree that the goal is to deliver a healthy baby, no matter what.
Well said, Blind Sheep!
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Island_Oak
Guest
Ahhh, the sweet sound of reason and balance prevail. Thanks Blind Sheep and StephanieC!!
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KCT
Guest
I was thinking is that if she became a trained instructor she could have personal contact w/ pregnant women, rather than ranting to a bunch of strangers on a public board. —KCT
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renee1258
Guest
As someone who is planning her next birth experience at home, my biggest concern with women and c-sections are the woman who are in their 6 month of pregnancy with no complications and what one out of the fear of labor.
Our problem isn’t with c-sections, it is with labor. Women simply don’t want to go through with it, or should I say prepare themselves for labor. Women shouldn’t rely on epidurals and c-sections when they have a baby, because they just might not get one. All education on the best way to labor and comfort without drugs or surgery should be done, no matter what you plan for.
C-section aren’t bad things, but a c-section shouldn’t be planned base solely on the woman’s want to avoid a vaginal birth. You really can’t plan birth, the unexpected happens. I almost gave birth in the elevator going up to the labor room. I am planning a home birth, but also I am speaking closely with a doctor in case I have to change plans.
Our problem isn’t with c-sections, it is with labor. Women simply don’t want to go through with it, or should I say prepare themselves for labor. Women shouldn’t rely on epidurals and c-sections when they have a baby, because they just might not get one. All education on the best way to labor and comfort without drugs or surgery should be done, no matter what you plan for.
C-section aren’t bad things, but a c-section shouldn’t be planned base solely on the woman’s want to avoid a vaginal birth. You really can’t plan birth, the unexpected happens. I almost gave birth in the elevator going up to the labor room. I am planning a home birth, but also I am speaking closely with a doctor in case I have to change plans.
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Sonya
Guest
I was in labor for about 24 or more hours and I had wanted to have a natural birth with no medications. Then my doctor told me that since I was overdue the baby had to come out soon for fear that the baby would not have enough fluid to survive inside me. They sped up the labor and my child’s head was blocked by my pelvic bone. I was pretty sad because I gave in to pain medicine. The petosin (how is that spelled?) they gave me made labor more difficult than normal labor. I ended up having a C-section, and that was my first and so far only baby. I don’t know if I needed a c-section, but everything went wrong that day and I wish I could have helped my child to have a normal birth. She did struggle to get out, but was stuck and ended up with a bruise on her head. I feel awful, because I begged for a c-section after being so exhausted. Even the baby was exhausted. It wasn’t what I had planned at all and I did cry about it, but when she was finally born she was healthy. Now she is turning 3 next month and is still extremely healthy and happy. God sure did give us a big reward for all our struggling.
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pnewton
Guest
My son just turnes 3 months (Jan 18). After reading your story I realize how fortunate my wife was. John was breach and required a C-section from the start. My wife felt like she “cheated” childbirth.
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maryceleste
Guest
Hmm… First of all, I’m appalled that some Catholics think it’s fine for a woman to have a cesarean without a serious medical indication. All other factors being equal, C/S isn’t only more dangerous for the mother; it’s more dangerous for the baby, too. For instance, C/S babies have a higher risk of allergies. ( health.yahoo.com/ate/drgreene/alldaily/2003/09/00025225
) C/S moms are also more likely to be given strong painkillers or antibiotics, which are then passed to the baby through the breast milk.
Cesarean delivery can be life-saving, but women have no right to choose it for frivolous or selfish reasons. And, while we may disagree on what qualifies as “frivolous and selfish,” I think we can agree that “fear of hemorrhoids” belongs on the list!
Here’s another thing to consider. A mother whose first baby is born by C/S will have to fight the system HARD if she hopes to have a large family. Most doctors won’t do more than 4 cesareans on a woman, since it’s believed that each scar increases the risk of uterine rupture. And it’s become very hard to find a doctor who’s willing to attend a VBAC – especially for a woman who’s never “proved herself” by having a previous normal birth.
It’s sad to think that the size of a family might be determined by the doctor’s fear of litigation, rather than by the spouses’ loving cooperation with the Holy Spirit. But it happens all the time. About half the moms in my church social group had cesareans with their first babies…so, we’re talking about a lot of children who probably won’t get to be born.
Other posters have mentioned various ways to minimize one’s chances of having a cesarean: taking childbirth classes, refusing continuous electronic fetal monitoring during labor, etc. But, when it comes down to it, probably the most important thing you can do is to ask your midwife or doctor: “What is your primary cesarean rate?” (i.e., not including repeat cesareans) If it’s much over 10%, I’d strongly suggest finding someone else to deliver the baby.
BTW, there are ways to get a breech baby to turn before labor starts. These methods don’t work 100% of the time, but they’re worth trying. Unfortunately, doctors in the US are very reluctant to attempt them, and would rather go straight to a C/S … fear of litigation, yet again. (In “Pregnancy Diary,” published by Ignatius Press, the author’s father, a physician, comes to visit her from Australia. He offers to turn her breech baby, because he knows the American doctors won’t do it.)
) C/S moms are also more likely to be given strong painkillers or antibiotics, which are then passed to the baby through the breast milk.
Cesarean delivery can be life-saving, but women have no right to choose it for frivolous or selfish reasons. And, while we may disagree on what qualifies as “frivolous and selfish,” I think we can agree that “fear of hemorrhoids” belongs on the list!
Here’s another thing to consider. A mother whose first baby is born by C/S will have to fight the system HARD if she hopes to have a large family. Most doctors won’t do more than 4 cesareans on a woman, since it’s believed that each scar increases the risk of uterine rupture. And it’s become very hard to find a doctor who’s willing to attend a VBAC – especially for a woman who’s never “proved herself” by having a previous normal birth.
It’s sad to think that the size of a family might be determined by the doctor’s fear of litigation, rather than by the spouses’ loving cooperation with the Holy Spirit. But it happens all the time. About half the moms in my church social group had cesareans with their first babies…so, we’re talking about a lot of children who probably won’t get to be born.
Other posters have mentioned various ways to minimize one’s chances of having a cesarean: taking childbirth classes, refusing continuous electronic fetal monitoring during labor, etc. But, when it comes down to it, probably the most important thing you can do is to ask your midwife or doctor: “What is your primary cesarean rate?” (i.e., not including repeat cesareans) If it’s much over 10%, I’d strongly suggest finding someone else to deliver the baby.
BTW, there are ways to get a breech baby to turn before labor starts. These methods don’t work 100% of the time, but they’re worth trying. Unfortunately, doctors in the US are very reluctant to attempt them, and would rather go straight to a C/S … fear of litigation, yet again. (In “Pregnancy Diary,” published by Ignatius Press, the author’s father, a physician, comes to visit her from Australia. He offers to turn her breech baby, because he knows the American doctors won’t do it.)
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pnewton
Guest
It was too late (a week past due) and the doctor was no reasonable hope of him turning. Still, his postition was checked prior to delivery. Why pay a doctor all the bucks if you are going to discount he opinion? She was a fine OB who believed in minimizing C-sections when reasonable.
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maryceleste
Guest
I wasn’t commenting on your specific circumstances… just responding to the OP’s statement:
It’s true that a C/S might be necessary, but it’s by no means certain. According to the American Academy of Family Practitioners, “routine use of external cephalic version = turning the baby] could reduce the rate of cesarean delivery by about two-thirds.”
aafp.org/afp/980901ap/coco.html
aafp.org/afp/980901ap/980901b.html
There are also many “folk remedies” for turning breech babies, and modern science is discovering that some of these are very effective. For instance, when moxibustion (a form of acupuncture that doesn’t use needles) was performed on the mothers of breech babies, 70%-80% of their babies turned head-down, vs. 50% for the control group. (This is from a study that was published in JAMA.)
naturalchildbirth.org/natural/resources/prebirth/prebirth41.htm
Here’s a list of other tricks that are rumored to work – and, if not, at least they’re unlikely to do any harm.
gentlebirth.org/archives/breech.html
I hope the above links help someone!
Most doctors these days don’t place a big priority on avoiding C/S, since they believe it’s “no big deal.” But, for parents who hope to have several more children, it can be a huge deal.
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vudster
Guest
First of all, I am a father instead of a mother so I really have no idea what pressures (real or imagined) that moms undergo during L&D. I am just so glad that they still undergo them - my three are great!
An interesting question, more in keeping with the topic, would address why the rates for C-section are much higher for certain geographical regions in the US. This may tell us more about why there are so many c-sections overall. No doubt many are needed but there are surely some that reflect the desire of a MD to avoid suit. This was a popular topic a few years ago and the rates of c-section were as high as 25% for some regions. I will attempt to find a reference or two.
God Bless Moms!
An interesting question, more in keeping with the topic, would address why the rates for C-section are much higher for certain geographical regions in the US. This may tell us more about why there are so many c-sections overall. No doubt many are needed but there are surely some that reflect the desire of a MD to avoid suit. This was a popular topic a few years ago and the rates of c-section were as high as 25% for some regions. I will attempt to find a reference or two.
God Bless Moms!
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CinciMom
Guest
Jen,
God bless you and that you had 3 more children since. I had severe pre-eclampsia with our first and when I had our second, I did not have problems. I want 2 more… just praying that it is what God intended. I did not have the VBAC because my son was stuck up in the cavity that they had to literally push on my belly and use forecepts. Everything is fine with both now
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sherri
Guest
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leaner
Guest
Christian4life:
THAT was well said! It blows my mind when people yell at you for having the NERVE to actually question a doctor’s orders…my first birth sounds very similar to yours, and because of that, I had a big scarlett C on my chest for my second birth…it was awful. I had one doc swear if I came in on his shift I’d be in bed with a scalp monitor on my baby from the time I set foot in the ward…no discussion, no willingness to work with any other mindset than his own (and military docs don’t pay malpractice, so it’s not like his premiums would have gone up- other ramifications, perhaps, but not financial) – One c-section can make a huge difference; right now, I’m looking at a third child, and hoping we can find somewhere friendly to our wishes. I have found in my 5yrs of OB care, at least 4 instances where the OB was DEAD wrong – not just “it’s how you interpret it” – but flat out wrong. So no, because they have a degree does not mean they are always going to be right. The other thing; birth (at least to me) is a beautiful and wonderous gift from God above – it is not a “condition” that needs to be “treated” – it’s not a disease to be dealt with and beaten. It is called “labor” for a reason – because it’s hard work, and any mother will tell you while it was the worst pain she’s ever experienced (well, except for the lucky ones who had no pain…who are they anyway??!) the moment that baby was in her arms, she forgot all about it – oh sure, we remember the pain…but not the way it really was – if we did, we’d probably never have more kids! LOL – anyway, my point is this: thankyou for — as a medical professional — recognizing that “informed consent” is still very much alive and kicking, that not every doctor is right every time, and that as thinking, feeling mothers, we are entitiled to aim as high as we desire where the miracle of our children are concerned. Yes, medical technology is wonderful and can save many lives in the event a c-section is necessary – there are plenty of necessary sections – but I’m afraid there are far more “just to be safe” – or “you just look tired” sections than there are “if we don’t go in, one or both will die” sections. That’s all most of us want to educate about.
My gut feeling tells me that Christian4life had a harrowing experience, felt the disappointment that any woman has felt after dreaming of a vag birth ( I know I still struggle with it) and the emotion involved in being a passive spectator rather than an active participant in such a miraculous event. To find out that perhaps your section was not necessary is VERY hard to accept, and it makes many women PISSED (pardon me, I’m from Jersey originally) to find out it didn’t have to go that way. Emotions run high, and it’s my feeling that her emotions got ahold of her and she went on a rant. Is she wrong? No, not really…not in a factual way, but her delivery could definitely have been “softened” to educate and not scare – so be it. I’d bet she felt like she wanted to scream it to the ends of the earth – I know because I’ve been there. You put your hopes and dreams in someone and they let you down and take the easy way out for you. It’s a terrible realization, and one that has a tendency to incense. Christian4life, I pray you find some peace with your birth; learn more, educate others, and strive for a VBAC with your next birth. I have been as angry and hurt as you are right now, and honestly, it feels like no one understands – everyone keeps saying “the baby is healthy and so are you, what are you upset about?!” – it’s soooo much more than that. I can’t explain it, you’d just have to go thru it – go thru it knowing it didn’t have to be that way, and you might just get angry too. If I truly believed my baby would have died or I would have, I’d have no trouble with a c-section. But it’s just not always that cut and dry. There are many reasons docs are happier with a c-section, and unfortunately, they don’t all involve the health/well-being of the babies and moms – that’s not to say, however, that docs don’t care about moms and babies, but I don’t think they really understand the depths of the emotion involved on the other side of the scalpel. Yes, even those who’ve had their own babies…
just my 2c
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