"Justice for Immigrants" and USCCB

[YourNameHere]

I live in Texas. And your statement is absolutely wrong.

 

[Ender]

That photo is the side of a building, looks like a Church in fact. Notice the shape?

How about this one?
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Or this one?
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Here’s one with folks lined up waiting for permission to enter. What a concept.
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[YourNameHere]

But in the United States, there is different law for different people.
The poor and needy get one kind of law, while the rich and affluent get another kind of law.
Thank God when life come to an end for those of us in this world, everyone will be judged by the same standards. Then there will be justice.

 

[Theo520]

But in the United States, there is different law for different people.
The poor and needy get one kind of law, while the rich and affluent get another kind of law.
Thank God when life come to an end for those of us in this world, everyone will be judged by the same standards. Then there will be justice.

You are deflecting, we were talking about asylum seekers.

Yes, the rich fair better in the Justice system in every country. You failed to make a point.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Oh please please, pretty please, cite any statistics that state that there are more people who illegally cross the border from Canada to the US, than from Mexico to the US. We’re all on tenterhooks…

 

[YourNameHere]

We are the United States of America, we are supposed to be an example for something better.
Florida would have far fewer Cubans living in that state now had we turned those fleeing Castro many years ago.

 

[YourNameHere]

I need not state the facts, because you and others would not believe them if I did.
“please, pretty please” – No need be be snarky.

 

[TheLittleLady]

There are walls, this is an ancient city with walls everywhere.

Have you BEEN to the Vatican? Have you BEEN to Rome? There are line to get in to tours all over the place.

You can post lines to get into the Coliseum, it is very near Vatican City.

However, anyone can enter the country, they simply walk across the street and they are in the City State of the Vatican. No check in gate, no passport required, one just walks in. One can then walk up to the offices and schedule an appointment to meet with State Officials.

There are private homes in the Vatican, as you might put a privacy fence around your home, those exist.

There are priceless works of art and very fragile ancient frescoes, mosaics, etc. Yes, there are limits to the number of people each day who can view these.

The ancient walls were to protect from conquering armies. They are now of historic value, they would not protect from a modern army should it wish to invade.

It is sort of silly to compare the Vatican to any other nation on earth.

 

[Ender]

There are walls, this is an ancient city with walls everywhere.

Why do you work so hard to deny the obvious? Vatican City is - with the exception of St. Peter’s square, completely surrounded by impressively high walls…as I said.

However, anyone can enter the country, they simply walk across the street and they are in the City State of the Vatican. No check in gate, no passport required, one just walks in.

This is quite true, and also quite disingenuous. Entry to St. Peter’s square is (usually) uncontrolled. Access to every other part of Vatican City is controlled by walls and armed guards, which is pretty much the point being debated: is it moral to use walls to control access into a country?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Apparently your experience of visiting Vatican City and mine were vastly different.

 

[Ender]

Apparently your experience of visiting Vatican City and mine were vastly different.

Our experiences do not change the facts: access to every part of Vatican City except St. Peter’s square is strictly controlled, and the entirety of the city - again with exception of the square - is walled.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Again, there must have been changes between our visits.

Next time you visit, book a walking tour for the gardens and the less “popular” buildings, it is wonderful to see.

 

[graciew]

Certainly the Church speaks about the dignity of work and not about the convenience of welfare.
I have heard so many times from our now Pope that we have to go back to a culture of work( here where I live I mean and many years ago).
To think that welfare solves problems is a mistake. It may support people through difficult times, temporarily, brief, but not forever. And the Church speaks about the right and the duty to work.
Now, bringing down this topic to what Bishops proposed together with Mexican Bishops then and what their web page says, what I read is criteria suggested with the reality there is.
And if I am to be frank, I am not to sure after reading as much as I could , what is it concretely Bishops have said or written that people here object to in view of Social Doctrine.
As I read it, I also read they do not mean neither open borders, nor those persons who do not qualify( that is in the OP article)as they propose a legal path( which you and I have often discussed throughout the years) as part of a comprehensive reform in search for justice.
So…it sounds to me…that you may be discussing more of political viewpoints than what bishops have concretely proposed as criteria.
I read your posts, Theo. I know what you think and do and hardly can one object to what builds , adds, and caters for the common good. Thanks God for what you do,Theo

 

[Gingersnaps4]

I live in Texas. And your statement is absolutely wrong.

You are GROSSLY misinformed, no matter where you live.

396,579 U.S. southwest border apprehensions in 2018.

How the U.S. Patrols Its Borders

President Joe Biden’s attempts to grapple with a record number of migrants are keeping the role of enforcement at the center of the debate over U.S. asylum, border, and deportation policy.

www.cfr.org

“Last year, Border Patrol agents along the northern border apprehended 3,027 people who were in the country illegally. By comparison, agents along the southern border captured more than 300,000.”

Illegal U.S. northern border crossings up 142 percent from last year

The 5,525-mile-long U.S.-Canada border, the longest and busiest land boundary in the world, presents challenges to law enforcement

www.google.com

And just for good measure, here are the southern and northern border drug stats along each border.
https://drugabuse.com/featured/drug-trafficking-across-borders/(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[niceatheist]

Walls historically did Rome little good once the Western Empire collapsed. Rome pretty much became completely reliant on the Frankish kings, and later the Holy Roman Emperors, for its security, even during the era of the Papal States. When that fell apart when Napoleon danced into Italy, it demonstrated that the walls did little good on their own. Pius VII knew his place, and readily acceded to the coronation of Napoleon.

The surest guarantee of the Vatican’s security certainly isn’t the wall, but the Lateran Treaty. If you’re looking for the success of a wall, the fortifications around the Vatican are a pretty terrible example.

 

[Ender]

Next time you visit, book a walking tour for the gardens and the less “popular” buildings, it is wonderful to see.

Book a tour? If access is uncontrolled why should that be necessary? I never said no one could access Vatican City. What I said is that access is in fact strictly controlled, and a major component of those controls is walls. That’s all that is being advocated for us: controlled access.

 

[Ender]

If you’re looking for the success of a wall, the fortifications around the Vatican are a pretty terrible example.

Those walls are over 30 feet high and do a really good job of keeping out tourists and the odd terrorist. Besides, the issue is not about their effectiveness; it is about the morality of having them. What is the moral argument against building a wall on our southern border given that Vatican City has a wall on its southern border (as well as two of the three other sides).

 

[niceatheist]

Rome faced existential threats when those walls were built (not, as I said, that it ever did that much good). No one can seriously claim Latin American migrants pose any kind of existential threat to the most powerful nation in the history of the world.

 

[Ender]

Rome faced existential threats when those walls were built (not, as I said, that it ever did that much good). No one can seriously claim Latin American migrants pose any kind of existential threat to the most powerful nation in the history of the world.

This (again) evades the question: what is the moral argument against the use of walls to control access into a country’s territory?

 

[CatholicSooner]

Sarcelle:

It’s like rewarding people who break the law while denying those who take care to follow the law. That is unjust in and of itself.

First see what God said about refugees.

Leviticus 19
33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
.
Ezekiel 47
21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign LORD.

Leviticus 24
You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 22:21
"Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

Leviticus 19:10
Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.

All the land belongs to God, no where in the Bible does it suggest building walls to keep refugees out.

wow…talk about cherry picking and taking scripture out of context…

I’ll just add one thing…the reason the US bishops are pushing this so hard is because I believe around 40% of their budget comes from immigration services…connect the dots.