JW's and CHRIST'S RESURRECTION

[Jaypeeto4]

The Jehovah’s Witness Faith
believes that Jesus of Nazareth is alive in heaven now.
However, they believe that his body of flesh was not glorified
and taken into heaven, but rather instantly dissolved by Jehovah
into nothingness on the 3rd day (Resurrection), and that Jesus was recreated as what he was before:
the 100% pure-Spirit Being named Michael the Archangel.

Does scripture support this view?
Does scripture teach that Christ is a 100% pure spirit being only,
now that he is back in heaven in the Holy Place (the heavenly Holy of Holies) ??

Consider this from Hebrews 9 (New Revised Standard Version):
But when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation), he entered once for all into the Holy Place, not with the blood of goats and calves, but WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, thus obtaining eternal redemption.

and from John chapter 2, beginning at verse 18 (again from the New Revised Standard Version):
The Jews then said to him, “What sign can you show us for doing this?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking of the temple OF HIS BODY."

Not only here in John does Jesus speak of his BODY being RAISED UP, but note WHO Jesus said is going to be the One who RAISES it up.

How then can JWs leaders who write their literature claim that Jesus’s body (Greek: SOMA, physical body) was not glorified and raised up, but rather dissolved by God and he raised as
a purely-spirit being instead ??

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[BibleSteve]

How then can JWs leaders who write their literature claim that Jesus’s body (Greek: SOMA, physical body) was not glorified and raised up, but rather dissolved by God and he raised as a purely-spirit being instead ??

(1 Corinthians 15:35-56) Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; 37and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; 38but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort*. 41The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, star differs from star in glory. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. 43It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. 44It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.** If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one**. 45It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. **47The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. 48As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also. 49And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one. 50However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. 54But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.” 55*“Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” 56*The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Obviously purely natural flesh and blood cannot enter God’s kingdom, but this cannot rule out a GLORIFIED physical body, otherwise how do you deal with John and Hebrews (( to name but a couple of significant passages )). Remember, Paul wrote BOTH Corinthians AND Hebrews (or at least one of his students wrote Hebrews, it is definitely Pauline).

I welcome all bible students’ (name removed by moderator)ut on this one, from all angles.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[BibleSteve]

I’ve seen where the Bible talks about a “physical body” and a “spiritual body”…

I haven’t seen the term “glorified physical body”… Is that in the Bible or does that come from Tradition?

Paul was pretty clear when he said it was raised in a “spirit body”, and that Christ was raised as a “life-giving spirit”.

Scriptural support for this “glorified physical body” please?

 

[Delraek]

(1 Corinthians 15:35-56) Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; 37and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; 38but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort*. 41The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, star differs from star in glory. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. 43It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. 44It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.** If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one**. 45It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. **47The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. 48As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also. 49And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one. 50However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. 54But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.” 55*“Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” 56*The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law.

Where does this say anything about Michael the Archangel and Jesus being one and the same??

Archangels are not divine and Jesus is!

 

[BibleSteve]

Where does this say anything about Michael the Archangel and Jesus being one and the same?? Archangels are not divine and Jesus is!

It was just a side point thrown in… in an attempt to discredit JW’s…

Let’s keep this thread on topic about Christ Resurrection and the type of body he was resurrected in…

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Note Luke 24:40-43

And as he said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed, he asked them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of baked fish; 43 he took it and ate it in front of them.

It would appear that He ate the fish to show that He had a real, physical body.

 

[BibleSteve]

Note Luke 24:40-43
It would appear that He ate the fish to show that He had a real, physical body.

He did it to show something… that somthing is where interpretation comes in… what is to show them he had a physical body, or something else?

There is an abundance of Scriptural testimony to the effect that, as the apostle Peter expresses it regarding Jesus, “he [was] put to death in the flesh, but [was] made alive in the spirit.” We cannot escape it, if Jesus had been raised in his body of flesh he would have ascended into heaven with it, and “flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.” No human fleshly Jesus Christ could be ‘the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of God’s very being.’ His human body was “the bread that [he gave] ... in behalf of the life of the world.” For him to have been resurrected in it would have meant that he had taken back this gift of life and mankind was no longer ransomed.—1Pet. 3:18; 1Cor. 15:50; Heb. 1:3; John 6:51.

Then how are we to understand Jesus’ words? His disciples thought, because of his sudden appearance in their midst, that they were seeing an apparition, even as they so thought when he came to them upon the water when they were in distress because of a storm. (Matt. 14:26, 27) Rather than try to get them to understand something for which they were not yet ready, Jesus merely assured them that he was no ghost or apparition, which he was not, but that it was indeed he; and he did indeed have a fleshly body which he materialized for the occasion. In other words, Jesus was assuring them that he was not the product of their imagination, neither was he someone else, but in truth and in fact the very Jesus they had known before his death.

Jesus’ answer to his disciples later, as to his restoring the kingdom at that time, was along the same line. (Acts 1:6) He did not stop to explain that his kingdom would be a heavenly one and that they would reign with him from the heavens; they were not prepared for such strikingly new information. “I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present.” (John 16:12) So Jesus at that time merely told them that it was not for them to know the time for restoring the kingdom to Israel; letting them find out later that the kingdom was never to be restored to fleshly Israel but given to a spiritual Israel. And so with Jesus’ remarks to his disciples as recorded at Luke 24:37-43. He did not endeavor to explain that he had been resurrected a spirit creature and had now materialized for their benefit, but merely drove home the fact that it was really he, the Jesus they had known all along. He asked for something to eat, not because he was hungry, but merely to help impress upon them that he was a real person, not imaginary.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

The gospel of John is VERY CLEAR that Jesus was speaking
of the resurrection of the temple that was His BODY.
The writer of the letter to the Hebrews, who was either Paul or a disciple of Paul, the same Paul who wrote Corinthians, said that Jesus took HIS OWN BLOOD into the heavenly holy of holies, thus securing eternal redemption. Now Jesus didn’t take a bowl of raw blood into heaven at his ascension, moreover he “lives forever to make intercession for us” as a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Yes, Paul says in 1st Corinthians that the first Adam became a living soul and the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit.
This does not mean that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit-only being. Jesus of Nazareth was an Incarnation of the Word of God. As such, he was a spirit being united to a human body of flesh. This unity comprised one person, the man Jesus.
Now, what is described in Hebrews about Jesus entering the Holy Place (in heaven) with HIS OWN BLOOD is very direct. To say that he was raised as ONLY a spirit, and not a spirit/glorified man composite, would destroy the type/antitype which is being discussed in Hebrews. Hebrews is hearkening back to the Old Testament Day of Atonement on which, every year, the sinner High Priest would enter the most holy place, the holy of holies, the holy place BEHIND the veil, with the blood of animals and would throw that blood on the Mercy Seat of the Ark, over which hovered the Shekinah Glory of Jehovah God. Thus annual atonement for sin was made, with the blood of a different animal each year and usually a different priest each year on the Day of Atonement. The writer to the Hebrews is saying in context that Jesus is the true and FINAL high priest, who entered not the earthly holy place, a copy of the TRUE tabernacle/temple, but into the true Holy of Holies in heaven taking HIS OWN BLOOD (and of course the body containing that blood) into the Holy of Holies as the completion of sin-offering begun at the Crucifixion.
The sacrifice was never over when the animal was slaughtered.
The high priest had to take the blood of the animal into the Holy of Holies, the holy place behind the veil, where God’s presence dwelt under the form of the Shekinal Glory cloud which hovered over the mercy-seat of the Ark of the Covenant, and the blood had to be splashed or smeared on the Ark. In the antitypical fulfillment of the old testament “type,” Jesus the TRUE High Priest, was a) killed physically on Calvary, b) raised physically (but in glorified form cf. the Transfiguration) on Sunday, and c) forty days later ascended into heaven itself with his obviously glorified body and blood, taking his OWN BLOOD into the Heavenly Holy of Holies, into the presence of the Father there,
which was and is the TRUE Holy Place which is prefigured by the Old Testament Holy of Holies, the holy place BEHIND the Temple veil. In entering heaven as a glorified God-man, Christ entered heaven as BOTH our High Priest and our Glorified Sacrificial Victim, COMPLETING his sacrifice begun on Calvary by presenting himself in his glorified body, wound-scars and all, before the Father, ever more to serve as both our High Priest AND our eternal once-for-all Sin Offering.

If we assert that Jesus was resurrected exclusively as a spirit,
the harmony of the Bible is violently destroyed and the type does not have it’s fulfillment in the antitype.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**CONCLUSION OF THE PREVIOUS POST:**As an incarnated divine person, Jesus was never a mere “living soul” as was the first Adam and as are we in our natural state.
He was the god-Man. That was why he could Transfigure into glory in the presence of Peter, James, and John even BEFORE the crucifixiion and resurrection. This actually happened, they weren’t seeing a vision in the sense of a phony image implanted on their minds, Christ was really transfigured into great glory right before their eyes on that mountain that day. As a resurrected glorified man who was also a divine being at the same time, we can truthfully say with Paul that the second Adam, Jesus, became a LIFE-GIVING spirit. Jesus, in his essential nature, IS pure spirit by nature, for he is the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, the Son of God the Father. He is also, since his conception in Mary’s womb, God-united-to-humanity, forever. Only even HIS natural body from Mary couldn’t enter into heaven itself for us, it had to be glorified, changed in the twinkling of an eye into
a spiritUAL, not spirit, Body, for he had to take his resurrected body of flesh, blood, and bones into heaven’s holy of holies in order to complete his Atoning Offering for our sins as both our Priest and our Sin Offering in one and the same Jesus Person, just as the Old covenant high priest had to enter the earthly holy of holies behind the veil once a year on the day of atonement with blood not his own. Christ entered into the heavenly place with his own (glorified) blood ONCE FOR ALL, meaning that he NEVER has to suffer crucifixion again for us, because his ONE sacrificial offering is now alive and living gloriously, scars and all, in the presence of the Father as OUR permanent Day of Atonement Sin Offering that lives forever.
Type, antitype. Destroy that, and you void the WHOLE bible.
God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Another point,
it is simply not true that a glorified physical resurrection of Jesus would be “taking back the ransom price” for our sins.
This is a strictly Watchtower interpretation and has never been believed by any Christian in the 2000 year history of Christianity.

The point of a sacrifice is that a victim is being given wholly over to God by a priest. In the case of Christ, Jesus IS the priest AND Jesus IS the victim. His obedience unto death help make Jesus “perfect” as our High Priest ((Jesus was already spiritually and moral perfect, but he was made perfect as a human high priest**by his endurance of suffering and death on our behalf.

Now, in the Old Testament sacrifices to God,
the priest slaughtered the victim and brought it’s blood into symbolic contact with the Father either by splashing it on the altar or, on the day of Atonement, putting it on the Mercy Seat on top of the ark of the covenant where God was “present” in the form of the Shekinah Glory Cloud above the ark. The point was, the victim/offering, was being given wholly over to Jehovah God.

In the case of Christ’s sacrifice, it was necessary for him to fulfill the Old Testament “type” by entering the Holy of Holies IN HEAVEN as a resurrected but glorified man with a spiritual (not pure spirit) body that mysteriously contained glorified blood. Thus, by dying physically, rising physically (but glorified), and ascending physically in his glorified (not natural) body of flesh, bones, and blood to serve in the Heavenly Sanctuary as BOTH our high priest and our high-priestly sin offering, Jesus, Himself both the victim AND the priest, gave himself wholly over to God the Father, forever, on our behalf. His physical resurrection by no means “took back” the ransom price, it by no means voided his sacrifice but completed it at the ascension into the heavenly Holy of Holies.

The JW view about it taking back the ransom price is based on their mistaken belief that Adam committed the Unforgivable Sin and thus has to remain permanently dead with no hope of resurrection. Jesus, to be a corresponding ransom on behalf of Adam’s descendants (but not on behalf of Adam they believe), must also remain physically dead forever or else the ransom price would be taken back. Such a belief is unheard of in the entire 2000 year history of Christianity. What I have outlined above is what has been taught by Christianity since 33 A.D. (or C.E. if you prefer).

 

[Jaypeeto4]

In response to a question from Steve above, namely, does
the expression “glorified body” come from Scripture or from tradition (and I assume he means unauthoritative, non-apostolic, mere tradition of men).

It comes from scripture.
Consider Philippians 3:20,21 (New Revised Standard Version):
But our citizenship is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
He will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of his glory.
The footnotes give the variant readings for “the body of our humiliation” as “our humble bodies” and “the body of his glory” as “his glorious body.”

Now, a pure spirit does not have a body, for a body is material.
The glorified body is not the corruptible body that came forth from the womb. It is the same body, but it is no longer corruptible.
It has majestic powers. It can pass through the graveclothes, as Jesus’s glorified body did, and it can pass through locked doors, as Jesus’s glorified body did which startled the daylights out of the apostles.

Now the apostles were afraid when Jesus appeared to them in the Upper Room that Sunday evening, and they were afraid because they thought that they were seeing a spirit.
Now, if Jehovah’s Witnesses are correct about this, namely, that at his resurrection Jesus was changed into a spirit-only being,
then the Apostles were RIGHT, they WERE seeing a spirit !!
But Jesus said to them,
Handle me and see that it is I myself,
for a SPIRIT DOES NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONES as you can see that I HAVE. And he showed them his hands and feet.

What were in the hands and feet? Wound marks from the nails.
Now, the JWs offer the explanation that Jesus, a pure spirit,
manufactured a body not really his own and appeared to them in that body which really was not his resurrection body (glorified).
But Jesus said he was NOT a pure spirit, and to prove it, he showed them his wounded hands and feet. Now, if he were a pure spirit, this would make him a liar for he said A SPIRIT DOES NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONES AS YOU CAN SEE THAT I HAVE. and he added HANDLE ME AND SEE THAT IT IS I MYSELF and showed them his hands and his feet.

Now, to make sense of the JW explanation, we’d have to say:
Jesus was a pure spirit after his resurrection, with no body.
When the apostles saw Jesus, they thought they were seeing
a spirit.
Jesus, instead of saying, yes, I am now a pure spirit being,
INSTEAD says that he is not just a spirit, and tells them to
touch him and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones.

That means that to prove that he was a pure spirit,
Jesus materialized a FAKE body with FAKE wound marks on it,
and told them to touch him and see that he was NOT just a spirit!!

Folks, this borders on schizophrenia.
Then to top it off, a week later, Jesus appears again
(in a fake body), and to prove that he is alive, he tells Thomas
to put his fingers into his (FAKE) nail wounds and into the
(FAKE) wound in his side, in the side of the materialized body that was NOT REALLY his glorified resurrection body, according to the JWs !!

The ancient Jews believed in disembodied spirits (souls, ghosts of the dead). Only the Sadducees denied the existence of Ghosts. So when the Apostles saw Jesus, they thought they were seeing a spirit or ghost. To prove that he was not a spirit, Jesus had them handle him, and he ate food in front of them.
Now, as a glorified, imperishable man, Jesus did not NEED to eat any food, but he did so. The glorified body can disappear at will, appear in another place at will, can bilocate, can appear with a different facial appearance (which is why the disciples on the Emmaus Road did not recognize him until he broke the eucharistic bread with them), and can even appear in the form of a child. Now, we know that age-wise, the risen man Jesus is no longer actually a child. But in his glorified body, he can and has appeared in that form to many Saints and they have HELD HIM IN THEIR ARMS and were witnessed by others doing so. The most famous Saint to which this grace was given of holding Jesus under the form of a child, was to Saint Anthony of Padua in the 13th Century. And to Saint Christopher over 800 years before.
But I’m rambling now, my point was made long ago, sorry folks for rambling.
God blless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Delraek]

It was just a side point thrown in… in an attempt to discredit JW’s…

Let’s keep this thread on topic about Christ Resurrection and the type of body he was resurrected in…

This IS on topic:

The Jehovah’s Witness Faith
believes that Jesus of Nazareth is alive in heaven now.
However, they believe that his body of flesh was not glorified
and taken into heaven, but rather instantly dissolved by Jehovah
into nothingness on the 3rd day (Resurrection), and that Jesus was recreated as what he was before:
the 100% pure-Spirit Being named Michael the Archangel.

Do JW really believe this or not, and if so, where is it in the Bible?

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I think I can explain their view accurately. My memory may be a little rusty, but here goes.

Daniel Chapter 10:21 (New Revised Standard Version):
There is no one with me who contends against these ((spirit, my clarification)) princes except Michael, your prince.

In context, Michael is being identified as the angel prince
who especially protects the people of Israel.
The JWs take note of that.

Then, Daniel Chapter 12:1-2 (again, New Revised Standard Version):
At that time Michael, the great prince, the protector of your people ((Israel, my clarification)) shall arise. There shall be a time of anguish, such as has never occurred since nations first came into existence. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

JWs believe that this means that Michael’s “standing up” commences the Great Tribulation, after which the Resurection will occur. Now, nowhere does the text say that Michael is going to be the one DOING the resurrecting. Rather, he stands up and asserts his power. Nowhere does this even hint that Michael is the Messiah. But JWs conclude from Michael’s “standing up” and the resurrection occuring, that Michael and Jesus are the same person. I call that jumping to unwarranted conclusions. All it means is that Michael will be standing up for Israel at this time.

By the way, note that this Resurrection described in Daniel actually in a way supports the Christian doctrine of eternal punishment of hell, because at this resurrection, many shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**** bumpski ****

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Vun more bumpski.
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Hellisreal]

In other words, their version of Jesus never shared in our humanity truly.

Would I be correct Jaypeeto?

 

[Delraek]

I think I can explain their view accurately. My memory may be a little rusty, but here goes.

Daniel Chapter 10:21 (New Revised Standard Version):
There is no one with me who contends against these ((spirit, my clarification)) princes except Michael, your prince.

In context, Michael is being identified as the angel prince
who especially protects the people of Israel.
The JWs take note of that.

Then, Daniel Chapter 12:1-2 (again, New Revised Standard Version):
At that time Michael, the great prince, the protector of your people ((Israel, my clarification)) shall arise. There shall be a time of anguish, such as has never occurred since nations first came into existence. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

JWs believe that this means that Michael’s “standing up” commences the Great Tribulation, after which the Resurection will occur. Now, nowhere does the text say that Michael is going to be the one DOING the resurrecting. Rather, he stands up and asserts his power. Nowhere does this even hint that Michael is the Messiah. But JWs conclude from Michael’s “standing up” and the resurrection occuring, that Michael and Jesus are the same person. I call that jumping to unwarranted conclusions. All it means is that Michael will be standing up for Israel at this time.

By the way, note that this Resurrection described in Daniel actually in a way supports the Christian doctrine of eternal punishment of hell, because at this resurrection, many shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Well, that’s quite a “reach” and not very convincing! Do JWs believe that Jesus is divine or not?? I mean, obviously, Michael is a creature and is not divine…

 

[Hellisreal]

Do the annointed get assumed to heaven in the bodies they have now, or do they get glorifyed bodies? Or does God dissolve their bodies like he did with the JW “Michael/Jesus”?

 

[TraditionalCath]

oh and one important point for steve that i think all jw’s overlook, and it cannot be taken any other way, but you know how they are, they twist this particular scripture. Jesus said: (and by the way, this is absolutely CLEAR) that He would raise Himself up under His own power. He was not referring to God the Father raising Him, He was referring to Himself and not God the Father.