JW's came to visit me today

[beckycmarie]

Your answer is found in these two links mentioned above:

Who is “the Only True God”?
Those Who Are Called ‘Gods’"

I read them, and neither of those links answered my question.

 

[BibleSteve]

I read them, and neither of those links answered my question.

The entire first article and first 7 paragraphs of the 2nd article discuss the use of the word “god” in the Bible. Paragraph 8 discusses your question and the surrounding scriptures.

 

[excaliber]

The entire first article and first 7 paragraphs of the 2nd article discuss the use of the word “god” in the Bible. Paragraph 8 discusses your question and the surrounding scriptures.

Wow such bible comentary is remarkable!
Why don’t you tell us who wrote the new world translation?
Im sure they were very qualified for such a task?

Just as qualified as those that made all the false predictions.

Probably just as qualified as who ever wrote the articles on your links.

 

[beckycmarie]

The entire first article and first 7 paragraphs of the 2nd article discuss the use of the word “god” in the Bible. Paragraph 8 discusses your question and the surrounding scriptures.

BibleSteve, your giving me links to JW falsities is not going to convince me. How about answering my question in your own words, using the Bible and logic?

 

[excaliber]

BibleSteve, your giving me links to JW falsities is not going to convince me. How about answering my question in your own words, using the Bible and logic?

beckycmarie, sounds like you may have been born at night…
Just not last night !!

LOL…

 

[BibleSteve]

How about answering my question in your own words, using the Bible and logic?

Dear Becky,

You’ve asked several questions and I’ve answered them. I’ve provided you Scriptural answers about the Paradise earth, the Trinity dogma, the use of the word “God” in the Bible, "Doubting Thomas’ statement, and even clarified to you that JW’s are not Arian.

If you disagree with those answers, then that is fine… I have no interest in arguing with you. We can end our discussion and I wish you well.

Since you want to put so much weight on Thomas’ words “my God” and Jesus not immediately correcting him… perhaps it would be useful for you to study that phrase “my God”. It is used about 200 times throughout the Bible. One thing that is consistent is that the person who is calling someone else “my God”… isn’t God himself, right?

For example, the Apostle Paul certainly wasn’t Almighty God because he called someone else “my God”:

(Romans 1:8) First of all, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ concerning all of YOU, because YOUR faith is talked about throughout the whole world.

(2 Corinthians 12:21) Perhaps, when I come again, **my God **might humiliate me among YOU, and I might mourn over many of those who formerly sinned but have not repented over their uncleanness and fornication and loose conduct that they have practiced.

(Philippians 1:3) I thank **my God **always upon every remembrance of YOU

(Philippians 4:19) In turn, **my God **will fully supply all YOUR need to the extent of his riches in glory by means of Christ Jesus.

Similarly, Jesus himself referred to someone else as “my God”.

(Matthew 27:46) About the ninth hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “E′li, E′li, la′ma sa•bach•tha′ni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to **my God **and your God.’”

(Revelation 3:2) Become watchful, and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I have not found your deeds fully performed before my God.

(Revelation 3:12) “‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of **my God **and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine.

Lastly, perhaps you should think carefully about Jesus discussion with Mary:

(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Ask yourself: Who was Mary’s God and why is Jesus calling that person “my God” himself?

I wish you well in your studies.

 

[beckycmarie]

Steve, instead of responding to my question, you’ve provided a slew of quotes that have nothing to do with Thomas calling Jesus “My Lord and my God.” I see our discussion is going nowhere. I will pray that you find the truth before this life is over.

 

[VWcrazy]

Becky,

You may have noticed a common JW technic. Don’t give a direct answer when you can you can circumvent the issue by simply giving an answer which doesn’t actually answer the original question.

I am also praying that BibleSteve will be freed from the Watchtower and finally find the Church which Christ established.

 

[beckycmarie]

Becky,

You may have noticed a common JW technic. Don’t give a direct answer when you can you can circumvent the issue by simply giving an answer which doesn’t actually answer the original question.

I am also praying that BibleSteve will be freed from the Watchtower and finally find the Church which Christ established.

This “technique” does not impress me; it just shows me a lack of being able to face the question head on with logic and evidence. That question is a direct threat to a major tenet of the JW’s, and to answer it properly means Steve would have to accept that Jesus is Lord and God. Since he can’t answer the question without contradicting his beliefs, he is instead throwing out a bunch of quotes about the phrase “my God” that have absolutely nothing to do with my question.

 

[holdencaulfield]

When they show up it generally listen to their little talk, accept their literature and tell them what church I attend and they leave.

Today was not really any different, yet I see threads like this and people say they got into long interesting conversations. What sort of things do you guys bring up to get such a conversation going? (they said they may come back sometime)

lol, tell them not to.

 

[cascherman]

Since you want to put so much weight on Thomas’ words “my God” and Jesus not immediately correcting him… perhaps it would be useful for you to study that phrase “my God”. It is used about 200 times throughout the Bible. ** One thing that is consistent is that the person who is calling someone else “my God”… isn’t God himself, right?**

Ask yourself: Who was Mary’s God and why is Jesus calling that person “my God” himself?

The above argument is moot considering it is all based on the assumption that Christ could not call his Father ‘his God’ if he was God himself. The assumed basis for your argument is in bold and underlined in the above quote.

 

[cascherman]

I should add to above, something for BibleSteve.

Even in my discussions with a co-worker of mine who is a JW I have noticed a tendency of theirs, and I think yours as well, to insist that they understand perfectly the relationship between the Father and the Son. I feel that is presumptuous and foolhardy.

Onto another topic that I brought up earlier with no reply: Why and with what proof do you believe that the Jehovah’s Witness organization is truly the organization chosen by God to be the light to the world? The Bible can be a thousand different books to different people depending on interpretation, so with what authority do you interpret the Bible, given by who, and how should we know?

 

[holdencaulfield]

These are good questions that I’ve discussed many times in this forum. If you are interested in understanding why JW’s disagree with the Trinity dogma, you should reference this brochure:

Should You Believe in the Trinity?

You, realize that you are not Christians. [Moderator removed uncharitable comments[/COLOR]].

 

[BibleSteve]

This “technique” does not impress me; it just shows me a lack of being able to face the question head on with logic and evidence. That question is a direct threat to a major tenet of the JW’s, and to answer it properly means Steve would have to accept that Jesus is Lord and God. Since he can’t answer the question without contradicting his beliefs, he is instead throwing out a bunch of quotes about the phrase “my God” that have absolutely nothing to do with my question.

Becky,

I have answered this question multiple times in this forum over the last year. Each and everytime, my explanations are ignored in favor of answers that defy simple logic and thus are by definition “illogical”.

You asked the question and I pointed you to the information that answers it. If you are inclined towards wanting to learn you will read what I pointed you to and use it to increase your knowlege. If you are inclined to want to argue, you will continue doing what you are doing.

Your question was about Thomas calling Jesus “my God”. The article I pointed you to specifically discussed Thomas calling Jesus God. It also talked about how the term “god” was used in the Bible in reference to those who where not Almighty God. It also pointed out that Jesus called his own Father “my God”.

You asked a question, I answered your question and now instead of simply saying thank-you, you simply move to insults because I understand this scripture differently than you.

Since you choose this approach to conversation, I’m simply wishing you well on your studies.

 

[BibleSteve]

You, realize that you are not Christians. [Moderator removed uncharitable comments[/COLOR]].

Dear Holdencaulfield,

Please note Forum Rule #1:

“Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks,”

 

[BibleSteve]

I am also praying that BibleSteve will be freed from the Falsetower…

Dear VWcrazy,

I doubt it would be polite and appropriate for me to change the word “Catholic” into some other derogatory term.

Please note the forum rule when choosing your terms about my religious group.

“Do not use character substitutions in proper names, such as “Amerikkkans” or “Demonrats” or “Repubicans” etc.”

 

[cascherman]

Bible Steve,

do I get an answer to any of my posts?

 

[BibleSteve]

Bible Steve,

do I get an answer to any of my posts?

Dear Cascherman,

Your question is about “authority”… who has it, how did they get it, etc.

I view this question and any discussion as entirely subjective…

From an objective point of view, the Bible shows Jesus formed a congregation/church of spirit anointed followers… first his Apostles, then his 1st century disciples. Jesus gave indication of how to find his true disciples by the love they showed amongst themselves.

Catholics want to believe they are that congregation/church and have “authority” because their organization is really old. They claim the Catholic church was formed by Jesus. Much could be discussed about whether that assumption is correct. I don’t believe it is.

Being really old doesn’t seem to be an objective measure of who has “authority”.

Your question is how JW leaders could have any authority because certain beliefs they hold didn’t exist before the late 1800’s. I’m not sure where the assumption that truth or authority must be old.

Daniel 12:4 indicates that certain knowlege wouldn’t be understood until the last days:

(Daniel 12:4) “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”

Personally, I’m not caught up in deciding which group has “authority”. I have a deep sense of personal responsibility before YHWH to ensure I do my own homework and decide what I believe the Bible really says, how I should act, and which group I want to associate with.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Dear Holdencaulfield,

Please note Forum Rule #1:

“Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks,”

I wasn’t attacking you, I don’t even know you. I’m saying that your religion is bad for being blasphemous and leading people away from God.

 

[beckycmarie]

Becky,

I have answered this question multiple times in this forum over the last year. Each and everytime, my explanations are ignored in favor of answers that defy simple logic and thus are by definition “illogical”.

You asked the question and I pointed you to the information that answers it. If you are inclined towards wanting to learn you will read what I pointed you to and use it to increase your knowlege. If you are inclined to want to argue, you will continue doing what you are doing.

Your question was about Thomas calling Jesus “my God”. The article I pointed you to specifically discussed Thomas calling Jesus God. It also talked about how the term “god” was used in the Bible in reference to those who where not Almighty God. It also pointed out that Jesus called his own Father “my God”.

You asked a question, I answered your question and now instead of simply saying thank-you, you simply move to insults because I understand this scripture differently than you.

Since you choose this approach to conversation, I’m simply wishing you well on your studies.

BibleSteve, I don’t see any example where I’ve hurled an insult, just pointed out a problem with the examples I’ve been given.

The Jehovah’s Witness website claims that Thomas said “My Lord and my God” as an exclamation. If this is true, then Thomas took the Lord’s name in vain, and if this is true, Jesus should have rebuked him for it, but he did not but instead affirmed his statement.

If Jesus is not God, and Thomas was clearly speaking to him (check your NWT and show me how it’s possible that the pronoun usage does not indicate so), then Jesus should have rebuked him for idolatry.

Jesus did not rebuke him, but said “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

So from those three lines in the Bible we know that

1. Thomas referred to Jesus as “My Lord and My God.” It says so very clearly in the Bible.
2. Jesus did not rebuke him for saying so.
3. Therefore, Jesus is God.

I haven’t seen anything in the JW literature you’ve posted that can refute that.