JW's came to visit me today

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BibleSteve said:
Each and every day, I constantly hear people saying “My Lord!”, “Oh My God!” when they are surprised by something.
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And that is a sin against the second commandment, taking the Lord’s name in vain. In other instances when one of the apostles sinned or doubted, Jesus swiftly rebuked their behavior with “ye of little faith” or “get thee behind me Satan.”

In this instance, Jesus does not, leaving the door wide open for belief in him as Lord and God. Surely he would have known the vast majority of Christians would believe this, and if it was false, he would have corrected it on the spot.

It is interesting to see how JW’s twist and manipulate the most simple words of Christ and his apostles to make the Scripture fit their agenda.
 
beckycmarie said:
And that is a sin against the second commandment, taking the Lord’s name in vain.

It is interesting to see how JW’s twist and manipulate the most simple words of Christ and his apostles to make the Scripture fit their agenda.
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Becky,

God’s name isn’t God, nor is it Lord. If you read the 2nd commandment it’s YHWH. Throughout the Bible many people were called by the title of “Lord” and even “God”. Abraham was called Lord, the Leaders of Israel were called “gods”, even Satan was called “god”

As for twisting Jesus words, I’m the one who is quoting Jesus words. While Jesus explicitly calls himself “The Son of God”, Trinitiarians twist that into “God The Son”, even though that phrase was never spoken by Jesus, or anyone else in the entire Bible.

I’m not sure what is so hard about understanding Jesus when he explicitly said his Father was the only true God and that he was the Son of God. That’s explicit. That’s what Jesus said.

Catching Thomas in a moment of shock, seeing something he’d never seen before, and the vast majority of other humans had never seen before… a dead person coming back to life… making an exclamation that millions of people say each and every day (when they aren’t uttering a doctrine, just a exclamation) and insisting that Jesus rebuked him with the 2nd commandment (which didn’t apply) is weak. Very weak.

You need to read up more on the history of this Trinity dogma. From the time of Adam to Jesus it was well understood that YHWH was the only true God. Jesus arrives and never claims to be God, only God’s Son. He explicitly says he’s God’s Son, over and over and over. He says his Father is “my God and your God”. Thus, his followers and him worship the same God, YHWH.

That’s explicit… but you want to look at Thomas in a moment of shock and define a doctine that conflicts with Jesus’ own words.
 
I still haven’t seen an answer as to why God referred to himself in the second person plural (us, our) in Genesis.
 
BibleSteve,
Catching Thomas in a moment of shock, seeing something he’d never seen before, and the vast majority of other humans had never seen before… a dead person coming back to life… making an exclamation that millions of people say each and every day (when they aren’t uttering a doctrine, just a exclamation) and insisting that Jesus rebuked him with the 2nd commandment (which didn’t apply) is weak. Very weak.
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Sorry, but BibleSteve’s answer is a crock. Scripture said that Thomas said TO Jesus “My Lord and my God.” To claim it was a simple exclamation is weak. Very weak.

John 20:29
Jesus said to him, “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”
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Jesus actually assents to Thomas’ statement.
 
beckycmarie said:
I still haven’t seen an answer as to why God referred to himself in the second person plural (us, our) in Genesis.
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Dear Becky,

I’ve answered this twice now in post #55 and post #8

If you are interested in the answer to your question you will find it discussed there.
 
BibleSteve said:
Dear Becky,

I’ve answered this twice now in post #55 and post #8

If you are interested in the answer to your question you will find it discussed there.
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I read that information. So it is the JW’s contention that a false (plural) God was responsible for creation? :confused:
 
BibleSteve said:
Here’s the article again What Does the Bible Say About God and Jesus

Read the section under “Not a Plural God”
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I get that. Here’s the problem with your assertion. In your own New World Translation of the Bible, this is what is said in Genesis 1:26
26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.”
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JW’s are contradicting themselves on the concept of the Trinity.
 
Becky,

Let **us **consider this quote from the article to clarify matters for ourselves.

"Some have claimed that the “us” and “our” in this expression indicate a Trinity. But if you were to say, ‘Let us make something for ourselves,’ no one would normally understand this to imply that several persons are combined as one inside of you. You simply mean that two or more individuals will work together on something. So, too, when God used “us” and “our,” he was simply addressing another individual, his first spirit creation, the master craftsman, the prehuman Jesus. "
 
BibleSteve said:
Becky,

Let **us **consider this quote from the article to clarify matters for ourselves.

"Some have claimed that the “us” and “our” in this expression indicate a Trinity. But if you were to say, ‘Let us make something for ourselves,’ no one would normally understand this to imply that several persons are combined as one inside of you. You simply mean that two or more individuals will work together on something. So, too, when God used “us” and “our,” he was simply addressing another individual, his first spirit creation, the master craftsman, the prehuman Jesus. "
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So you admit that Jesus had the power to create, and is therefore God, since God was talking to him and said “Let US make man in OUR own image?”
 
BibleSteve,

As Shakespeare wisely noted in The Merchant of Venice,

“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart:
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”

It is obvious to me, from every piece of evidence you’ve supplied, that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have created their own false religion, and use the most twisted, complicated and convoluted explanations of Scripture to support their falsehoods.

Jesus says we must have the faith of children to get into the Kingdom, yet rather than accept the words of God for exactly what he says, JW’s have been fooled by Satan into twisting the words into a whole new religion.
 
VWcrazy said:
Scripture said that Thomas said TO Jesus “My Lord and my God.” To claim it was a simple exclamation is weak. Very weak.
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This is a very good point.

The scriptures say that the comment was to Jesus, not just a comment of surprise.

Anyway, if it was a exclamation of surprise, why would the author bother putting that in the text? I mean they were all surprised when they first saw Jesus when He was risen.
 
Becky,
It is obvious to me, from every piece of evidence you’ve supplied, that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have created their own false religion, and use the most twisted, complicated and convoluted explanations of Scripture to support their falsehoods.
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I believe you are 99% accurate on this - except that the religion of the JWs was not created by the JWs, but Satan himself. It attempts to pervert Scriptures to mislead and confuse.

I pray daily that the Lord save the JWs from the clutches of the Falsetower and of Satan and lead them to the Light of Christ and His Church.
 
VWcrazy said:
Becky,

I believe you are 99% accurate on this - except that the religion of the JWs was not created by the JWs, but Satan himself. It attempts to pervert Scriptures to mislead and confuse.

I pray daily that the Lord save the JWs from the clutches of the Falsetower and of Satan and lead them to the Light of Christ and His Church.
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I think that is too far fetched. According to you, are all Protestant religions are evil, then. Don’t all non-Catholic relgions preach falsities?
 
Too far-fetched? Not at all!

My posting never said anything that all Protestant religions are evil. Most Protestant religions (I’d say all - but don’t want to generalize) do not re-write Scripture to fill their own needs. Do not call every other religion “the Whore of Babylon”. Do not make false prophesy year after year. Do not deny the Trinity. Do not deny the reality of Hell. Do not “disfellowship” former members. Do not etc etc etc.

Most Protestant religions are separated Brothers and Sisters in Christ.*
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In Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus says:
"Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” New World Translation
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Why would Jesus tell the disciples to baptize in the name of any body or anything who was not God? Do JW’s follow this command to baptize “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit”?
 
beckycmarie said:
In Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus says:

Why would Jesus tell the disciples to baptize in the name of any body or anything who was not God? Do JW’s follow this command to baptize “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit”?
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They sort of do but because they don’t believe in the Trinity, their baptism isn’t valid. My husband is a baptized JW and they did use those words when he was baptized. I didn’t know him when he was baptized a JW but I went to a few assemblies of the JWs and they do their baptisms there and anyone can watch. It’s really sad to see them all fall for the WT.
 
Bible Steve:

God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. In Rev. 22:13 Jesus calls himself the “Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”. How can Jesus be the first and the last, the beginning and the end… if he is not God?

SD
 
beckycmarie said:
BibleSteve,

As Shakespeare wisely noted in The Merchant of Venice,

It is obvious to me, from every piece of evidence you’ve supplied, that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have created their own false religion, and use the most twisted, complicated and convoluted explanations of Scripture to support their falsehoods…
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I’m sure you know far more about Shakespeare than me.

As for the simplicity of Bible truth, if people were to read the Bible from cover to cover without any preconceived idea of a Trinity, would they arrive at such a concept on their own? Not at all.

What comes through very clearly to an impartial reader is that God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, separate and distinct from anyone else, and that Jesus, even in his prehuman existence, is also separate and distinct, a created being, subordinate to God.

It’s simple… just as Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son, Isaac… YHWH was willing to sacrifice His dear son:

(John 3:16) …God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Just as Abraham & Isaac didn’t form some multi-headedTrinity being, YHWH and Jesus don’t either.

Trinitarians have become confused about the simply identity of God. This process first started when men choose to remove His name YHWH from the Bible and replace it with LORD and GOD in capital letters.

The Trinity dogma is not found in the Bible, it is an invention of the minds of men who lived years after the death of the Apostles.

“The word Trinity is not found in the Bible . . . It did not find a place formally in the theology of the church till the 4th century.” (The Illustrated Bible Dictionary) And a Catholic authority says that the Trinity “is not . . . directly and immediately [the] word of God.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia.

The Catholic Encyclopedia also comments: “In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word [tri’as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. . . . Shortly afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian.”

Jesus was emphatic and explicit in SIMPLE teaching he was the Son of God and he worshiped the same God that Mary and the other disciples did…

(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”

A simple reading of the Bible shows a Father and Son. The Trinity dogma is illogical, unreasonable, and completely unsupported by Scripture. This is why so many Trinitarians are completely confused about it.
 
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