Kaepernick controversy

  • Thread starter Thread starter otrrl
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Rhubarb said:
Tell that to the Torries who opposed the war.
Click to expand...
It there were any still alive, I’d be happy to.
Rhubarb said:
This nation has been one long string of momentary political differences changing the course of it
Click to expand...
And in the course of our momentary political differences, we were all able to take a moment to perform our shared national rituals, like standing for the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance, until now.
JanetF said:
Colin was told to take a knee by an Army Ranger who explained that it’s a respectful way to protect.
Click to expand...
I know a few Army Rangers/Green Berets/Navy SEALs/etc who disagree…
 
Last edited:
ucfengr, I edited my post to link to the story about this and to correct my mistake. It was a Green Beret, not an Army Ranger, my bad.
 
On the point of the players being “employees” does it say anyplace in their contracts that they have to stand for the Anthem? I believe the President’s point about kicking those SOBs outta there was in reference to the managers telling them to do anything, even like following a certain called play,

But here, specifically, kneeling is showing respect for black Americans (including black veterans) who don’t get the respect they deserve, who are being confronted and even killed by white cops. Black servicemen were treated as second-class citizens during the war.

A specific historical event came to my attention, how poorly blacks were treated in Seneca, Illinois when they went to work there building landing vessels that were used in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.

(I don’t align myself with any supremacy group, particularly any mentioned in the preceding comments. I do oppose racism.)
 
otrrl said:
On the point of the players being “employees” does it say anyplace in their contracts that they have to stand for the Anthem?
Click to expand...
Their contracts say that they have to follow league rules, one of which is standing for the National Anthem before the game. If they want to kneel on their own time, I doubt the league would have anything to say.
 
Last edited:
If, on my own time, I want to make any sort of protest I like, that is just fine and the First Amendment applies, which means I can’t be punished by the US government for my speech.

If I decided to make my protest in the middle of my company’s giant marketing conference during work time where I am representing my company in front of customers, my managers would have a pretty big problem with that, and the First Amendment does not apply because it’s a private employer, not the US government, making the rules.

NFL players are “on the clock” when they appear for games. They’re supposed to follow the rules of their workplace just like I follow mine. It’s not hard to understand.
 
Last edited:
We are all able.

There’s no reason why we app should. Especially for those who have grievances. Protest is a time honored tradition in this country too.
 
Rhubarb said:
Especially for those who have grievances. Protest is a time honored tradition in this country too.
Click to expand...
So, what does that mean? That I have to like it and continue to watch football, and the owners have to put up with the distraction that is hurting the product that the protest is? Nobody is saying Kap or any other player doesn’t have a right to protest, but I don’t watch a football game hoping a political protest will break out, I watch football to watch football. I feel the same way about the woman who protested Cardinal Weurhl (who I don’t particularly care for) over sexual abuse allegations during a Mass. People don’t go to Mass hoping someone will jump up and protest the Priest, they go there to go to Mass. The protesters are taking a community event, and trying to make it about them and what they care about. It’s very selfish.
 
You asked the people protesting Kapernick’s method’s to explain why they feel the way they do, and have yet to ask Kapernick the same question about his protest, as far as I can tell.

The bottom line is if we are going to afford people the right to protest and demonstrate using their freedom of speech, we have to afford the same courtesy to those who protest the original protestors.

Something need not be understandable in your eyes or mine to be worthy of objection.
 
I thank all for their replies. The strongest argument seems to be that standing for the Anthem boils down to a work rule, no expressions or deviations allowed, military style.

On the other side is the argument that patriotism is personal and its expression is personal, even in a public work place. Further, there is a time and a place for pointing out something that is wrong with America.

The point that I notice wasn’t covered, was whether the President has any business interfering with private work rules, and I don’t think that power is enumerated in the constitution, beyond expressing his opinion like, you know, anybody else.
 
otrrl said:
The point that I notice wasn’t covered, was whether the President has any business interfering with private work rules, and I don’t think that power is enumerated in the constitution, beyond expressing his opinion like, you know, anybody else.
Click to expand...
There was a thread, a while back, about (at least tangentially) that subject – was it or wasn’t it appropriate for the president to express his unhappiness with Kaepernick’s protest and suggest that he should be penalized for it.

Opinions on both sides of the question, naturally.
 
I’d say Presidents have long weighed in on local or private business affairs, to varying degrees. One can argue whether or not that is prudent, but it is hardly unique to Trump. His use of twitter as a medium certainty is, and modern Preaidents’ ability to reach the masses is relatively new compared to even twenty years ago.
 
Richard Nixon opined that Charles Manson was guilty while his trial was still going on, made the headlines and almost caused a mistrial.

Presidents say stuff. Big whoop.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Presidents say stuff. Big whoop.
Click to expand...
I find it interesting that some people who argue that athletes have the freedom of speech, don’t think the president should. It would be different if he said he was going to use the DOJ to investigate, or some such official action, but I think he should be free to have an opinion.
 
No one says these players can’t kneel in protest. But NOT during the National Anthem!
 
JanetF said:
It’s actually not disrespectful. Colin was given the idea to take a knee by an Green Beret who explained the significance.
Click to expand...
Don’t follow your logic.

If someone told you that flipping the bird was not disrespectful so you did it with the purest of heart, does that mean the recipient of your finger gesture has no right to feel insulted because someone you respect told you it was OK?

I don’t care what his rational or thinking is, many of us see it as disrespectful and he continued to do it even after the interpretation was made clear to him.
 
Part of the issue, I think, is that these athletes take themselves way too seriously.

I was fortunate to watch a day at the USPGA Senior Open a few years back, and it was interesting to see the attitudes of the different players. It seemed that the younger players were out to compete, but the older players understood that they were there to entertain the crowd. I remember Chichi Rodriguez in particular. While waiting to tee off he walked around and talked to the crowd and told jokes until it was time. The he walked up, hit the most amazing drive, and then went back to talking with the fans.

We watch sports to be entertained, not lectured to by the athletes.
 
I’m a veteran of the USAF and as patriotic as anyone can be. I served to protect the freedoms we have in this country (as I’m sure many on this forum have) as well as other allied countries. If someone wants to kneel during the National Anthem, let them do it. It’s his or her prerogative. I might be near him or her standing straight with my hand over my heart.
Actions have consequences. It’s up to each of us to decide our own actions and to consider the consequences. We just need to be careful what we ask (or vote) for.
 
Last edited:
Personally, I’ve always found it odd that we even have the national anthem before games, and IIRC until very recent history the anthem was never part of the telecast anyway. It seems like we could just stop televising it, and boom! controversy gone.

I very much appreciate the sacrifices of our military, but the use of flyovers, giant flags, singing not just the anthem but other American songs, etc. during professional sports games smacks strongly of “panem et circenses.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top