Kasper: “The pope is not a liberal. He is a radical.”

[ProVobis]

We show mercy, and we will be given mercy

As I’ve implied above, what works for the individual doesn’t necessarily work for the government. And being a conservative, progressive, radical, etc. usually means you’re taking a government position. It’s always easy to say what others and the government should be doing with their money and resources but ultimately you will be judged on what you as an individual does.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Can anyone tell me what the Pope actually said that makes him such a liberal??? I tend to agree that Pope Francis is a radical in that he is focusing on love above everything else, on mercy and on going out and bringing the Church’s teaching to the city. I believe this is radical, not because it is a new teaching of the Church, but because it has not been our focus for some time. Nothing of what I have heard from the Pope indicates anything liberal? Someone please point me in the direction of this news if I am wrong.

I believe that love is at the core of the life of any serious Christian, period. It’s our engine, if you will. People are transformed by Christ similar to the consecration of the bread and wine in the Eucharist. (I realize the transformation is incomplete in this world, but it has begun.) (“Behold I make all things new.”) I don’t think love can possibly ever be “not our focus.” I don’t think it has ever not been the focus of the true Catholic Church - again, an impossibility. To believe that is to be in error. IMHO to say that love or mercy is “not the focus” of a particular period in the Church under a pope or of an individual Catholic is to basically question the integrity of their faith. (not saying you are doing that of course! - I am saying that in my opinion that this is what it amounts to )

 

[sennincatholic]

None of which Francis supports. Anyone who says he does is attacking a straw man. Nor will it ever come to that.

Honestly, I’m glad Francis is calling us to refocus, like SyNoe said. We’ve beaten the dead horse of abortion and marriage into a maggot-infested pulp.

I was so relieved when Francis told the faithful to put those issues on the back burner (not that I support changing doctrine, mind you). I’m just sick of us being the Church of anti-this, that, and the other thing.

I’m tired of my fellow Catholics (metaphorically) masturbating over how righteous they think they are, and how persecuted we are by the leftists, hedonists, and nihilists (if we told a Christian in Iraq that we’re being “persecuted”, his response would be, “that’s cute. My daughter was just raped right before having her throat cut with a broken bottle”.)

And all this hooplah about Cardinal Burke’s “exile” to Malta? Give me a freakin’ break. I live on the other side of the planet. That decision will affect me when pigs fly.

Francis said at the beginning of his papacy that the Church needs to stop navel-gazing. And I agree. He has helped me realize that life in Christ does not mean having a lock-step, my-way-or-the-highway attitude that ostracizes anyone who expresses independent thought.

well said!:clapping:

 

[FAB]

As I’ve implied above, what works for the individual doesn’t necessarily work for the government. And being a conservative, progressive, radical, etc. usually means you’re taking a government position. It’s always easy to say what others and the government should be doing with their money and resources but ultimately you will be judged on what you as an individual does.

We are in agreement. I do not see the works that we are called to as the responsibility of the Government. Our call is a personal one. We have let the Government assume our work in areas of welfare and assistance. I think it has given many the impression that they don’t need to give time, talent and treasure to the local church’s because “I pay taxes”.
What happens instead of contributing directly to the church and it’s agencies, very often the agencies have to go to the government for grants, setting up a vicious circle. Then the agencies get accused of doing the government’s bidding. Remember Bush’s 1000 points of lights.
We though as Catholics can still a our work, on that personal basis with family neighbors and at work.

Deacon Frank

 

[M-Dent]

“The pope is not a liberal. He is a radical.”

IMO, its not a good idea to label the pope with political brandings. It can feed into a cult of personality and harm the mission of the papacy.

 

[RollTide1987]

I think Pope Francis regards abortion and homosexual marriage as big issues, however, he does not regard them as the only issues. Just because you are pro-abortion and for the sanctity of marriage doesn’t mean your soul is going to heaven. There are other things out there that we as Catholics need to concentrate on.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I think Pope Francis regards abortion and homosexual marriage as big issues, however, he does not regard them as the only issues. Just because you are pro-abortion and for the sanctity of marriage doesn’t mean your soul is going to heaven. There are other things out there that we as Catholics need to concentrate on.

And do concentrate on! As we have done very effectively for years!

Keep up the good work, all! Those in yesterday’s shadows and today’s spotlight!

 

[graciew]

And do concentrate on! As we have done very effectively for years!

Keep up the good work, al!!

This is the message as I understand it. Maybe because I am practical or a mother of few …
There are teams serving wonderfully,there are new challenges, there is a group here needing encouragement, there is a group there who needs " emergency mode"… And this is continuous and dynamic. Need is a pit with no end, it is up above we should be " refueling" ,only that we are human,and continuous encouragement is kind of always welcome.
But,there you are,FollowChrist, sincerely encouraging each other in our little or big tasks.
I loved your post !!

 

[graciew]

And thank you!!

 

[ProVobis]

I think Pope Francis regards abortion and homosexual marriage as big issues, however, he does not regard them as the only issues. Just because you are pro-abortion and for the sanctity of marriage doesn’t mean your soul is going to heaven. There are other things out there that we as Catholics need to concentrate on.

I think what you mean is that we’re all on the same side. Just a matter of priorities, that’s all.

That said, I think the German bishop unfairly attacked the Americans, who are among the top personal contributors to those in need in third-world countries. Arrogant, maybe, but certainly generous.

By the way, I think you meant pro-life (in bolded)?

 

[graciew]

That said, I think the German bishop unfairly attacked the Americans, who are among the top personal contributors to those in need in third-world countries. Arrogant, maybe, but certainly generous.

Pro Vobis, I do not want to be naive,but when I read the article, the " not too subtle…against American …" was Huffingtons post " conclusion" …so I just did away with it.
I did not get anyone was questioning generosity…
Arrogant? Not the worst when it comes to soccer… we can be very Messi…

 

[Sirach2]

Reproducing the short excerpts given of Cardinal Kasper’s speech:
Pope Francis wants a “missionary church” with an open door, not “a self-centered, self-pitying church immersed in its own suffering.”

Not everyone sees Francis as “the beginning of a new spring in the church,” said Kasper. “Every pope will have his opponents and enemies.”

“The pope is not a liberal. He is a radical.” By radical, he means returning to the origins of a church rooted in mercy, said the cardinal, author of a new book, “Mercy: The Essence of the Gospel and the Key to Christian Life.”

he described Francis as “a pope of surprises” and “a Jesuit through and through” with “a holy impatience with our divisions.”

“the churches are too wrapped up in their own concerns. … The church cannot be self-centered, revolving around itself, but a church on the move,”
These affirmations are susceptible of a number of interpretations.

How about an* authentic reference*, Justin? Was this reputedly a recent public speech, or are you referring to the February 2014 speech that is contained in his book. The words above were not written in his book, but in a media recap such as this in Huffington Post.

Maybe it would be apropriate to rebut with these words from the article:
Conservatives, led by Cardinal Raymond Burke, the former archbishop of St. Louis, have blasted the pope for encouraging a wide-ranging discussion on all kinds of families, gay and straight, at the synod.
Just a small sample of media distortions that have Catholics up in arms and keeping this subforum alive with the juicy gossip.

 

[Tigg]

What a shameful thread and I was determined to ignore it until I received an e-mail from a friend who is not a member of this board but regularly reads the forum and who drew my attention to Post #14 and #41.

She remarked on the vulgarity of its content. Yes….that is the very word she used. To broad-brush a movement of prayer and sacrifice as maggot infested and screaming and demonizing is not only hyperbole, but brings dishonor to those countless faithful ones who, no matter the weather week after week, quietly offer up their rosaries, distress and tears in absolute fidelity. I rejoice with them for the rare, small victory when a life is actually saved and the mother rejects the open doors leading to death. I am appalled at the inference that certain moral issues are nothing more than conservative politics, when they are the absolute and most abominable offense against all that is sacred and good.

I pity the pseudo-Catholics on these many threads who having rejected truth now erroneously believe the Church is actually going to be silent on the ugliness of sin and the degradation of humanity. This is not what the pope is asking of us when we are called to embrace the entire gospel. You who think you are the champions of Francis…. are instead, his enemy when speaking in this manner because the Vicar of Christ, self-described as a Son of the Church, would never be opposed to the very mission of the institution Christ created to save souls.

How did we ever reach this point when bishop is against bishop and Catholic against Catholic in all manner of vitriol and hatred and certitude is twisted beyond recognition. God have mercy on us all.

 

[Budeux]

Well said. I am so tired of Catholics acting as if we are a persecuted minority abused by the evil, liberal secularists.

I also agree with Francis ’ emphasis on meeting people where they are with mercy. If we approached people that way rather than condemning and focusing on single issues, we would attract people to Christ and the Church.

None of the more merciful approach requires abandoning doctrines. It does require a change in focus from our own self satisfaction at being right, our self pity, and our narrow focus on one or two issues.

Greetings…Pope Francis having picked the name of St. Francis gave us a clue to what his real heartfelt feelings are. The Holy Father is not changing doctrine…he is making us wakeup to our need to be more enclusive to those who hunger for Christ’ s message. We have a chance to bring that message now more than ever!

 

[Sy_Noe]

What a shameful thread and I was determined to ignore it until I received an e-mail from a friend who is not a member of this board but regularly reads the forum and who drew my attention to Post #14 and #41.

She remarked on the vulgarity of its content. Yes….that is the very word she used. To broad-brush a movement of prayer and sacrifice as maggot infested and screaming and demonizing is not only hyperbole, but brings dishonor to those countless faithful ones who, no matter the weather week after week, quietly offer up their rosaries, distress and tears in absolute fidelity. I rejoice with them for the rare, small victory when a life is actually saved and the mother rejects the open doors leading to death. I am appalled at the inference that certain moral issues are nothing more than conservative politics, when they are the absolute and most abominable offense against all that is sacred and good.

I pity the pseudo-Catholics on these many threads who having rejected truth now erroneously believe the Church is actually going to be silent on the ugliness of sin and the degradation of humanity. This is not what the pope is asking of us when we are called to embrace the entire gospel. You who think you are the champions of Francis…. are instead, his enemy when speaking in this manner because the Vicar of Christ, self-described as a Son of the Church, would never be opposed to the very mission of the institution Christ created to save souls.

How did we ever reach this point when bishop is against bishop and Catholic against Catholic in all manner of vitriol and hatred and certitude is twisted beyond recognition. God have mercy on us all.

Maybe Francis has been given to the Church to answer how the point was reached. So far his answer seems to be while the faithful are certainly not to be completely silent on any issue, the faithful must indeed broaden the dialogue. Primarily championing Church views on abortion and gay issues for so many years now, may be what the Pope is saying led the Church to this point. And that there needs to be a pendulum swing for the Church to truly show the world She still embraces all of the Gospel messages. Which may be why he is saying as a Son of the Church for the faithful not to entirely give up the focus on those concerns. Not at all. But to create much greater balance and to refocus the dialogue onto other things as well.

 

[JackVk]

What a shameful thread and I was determined to ignore it until I received an e-mail from a friend who is not a member of this board but regularly reads the forum and who drew my attention to Post #14 and #41.

She remarked on the vulgarity of its content. Yes….that is the very word she used. To broad-brush a movement of prayer and sacrifice as maggot infested and screaming and demonizing is not only hyperbole, but brings dishonor to those countless faithful ones who, no matter the weather week after week, quietly offer up their rosaries, distress and tears in absolute fidelity. I rejoice with them for the rare, small victory when a life is actually saved and the mother rejects the open doors leading to death. I am appalled at the inference that certain moral issues are nothing more than conservative politics, when they are the absolute and most abominable offense against all that is sacred and good.

I pity the pseudo-Catholics on these many threads who having rejected truth now erroneously believe the Church is actually going to be silent on the ugliness of sin and the degradation of humanity. This is not what the pope is asking of us when we are called to embrace the entire gospel. You who think you are the champions of Francis…. are instead, his enemy when speaking in this manner because the Vicar of Christ, self-described as a Son of the Church, would never be opposed to the very mission of the institution Christ created to save souls.

How did we ever reach this point when bishop is against bishop and Catholic against Catholic in all manner of vitriol and hatred and certitude is twisted beyond recognition. God have mercy on us all.

First, I apologize if my first post on this thread was uncharitable. Much of it was out of frustration.

But to call me a “Pseudo-Catholic”? “Enemy of Francis”? No!

all I am saying is that I’m tired of our hackneyed conversations about “abortion this and contraception that and homosexuals blah blah blah”. I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, condoning such sins. It’s not that I’ve been silent on these moral issues,* but that I’ve been vocal about them for too long. *

Have you ever heard of acedia? It is a sort of spiritual weariness. Things come to the point where they just don’t seem “worth it” anymore. For example, parents experience it when their kids stop being so cute (called the “seven-year itch”), priests feel tired of it, and many in the pro-life movement feel it as well (their opponents don’t; they have little helpers by the names of Wormwood and Moloch).

This acedia is what caused me to withdraw from the “culture wars” of the faith. It has been a cross that has plagued me for at least a year, possibly longer. I just want to focus on growing in my relationship with Christ, not worrying about what “those people” are up to, considering the only methods I have of potentially convincing them-legislation and fruitless internet arguments-have proven marginal at best and a waste of time and energy at worst.

So, it’s not that I’m a “pseudo-Catholic”. It’s that I’m not feeling called to limit my faith to running around the same treadmill of issues every single day. Yes, we should speak up about the abortion-marriage-contraception rigmarole once in a while, but not constantly!

 

[FAB]

So, it’s not that I’m a “pseudo-Catholic”. It’s that I’m not feeling called to limit my faith to running around the same treadmill of issues every single day. Yes, we should speak up about the abortion-marriage-contraception rigmarole once in a while, but not constantly!

Jack you have a good point, and even Pope Francis has warned against being single issue Catholics. There is much more for us to do. The first is to truly live, practice and love the word of Christ in everything we do. If we do so, by our lives we can show a better way, we can show the truth.

Deacon Frank

 

[ProVobis]

Jack you have a good point, and even Pope Francis has warned against being single issue Catholics. There is much more for us to do. The first is to truly live, practice and love the word of Christ in everything we do. If we do so, by our lives we can show a better way, we can show the truth.

Deacon Frank

I don’t speak or understand Italian but I do see where the Pope has emphasized frequent confession and has done so by example. That should be a start.

 

[surritter]

Obviously, you have no idea what I’ve been through trying to crusade against abortion. It just got to the point where nothing I did for the pro-life movement bore any fruit. Screaming at people and demonizing them solves nothing.

If this is how you have attempted to defend life, then it’s no wonder you’re frustrated! It seems to me that appropriate Christian tactics would NOT involve “screaming at people and demonizing them.”

I urge you to come back on board with the full-court press against abortion and other social issues that our sick society embraces. With a revised approach that employs true Christian charity, I think you’ll feel less jaded.

 

[Darryl1958]

Reproducing the short excerpts given of Cardinal Kasper’s speech:

Pope Francis wants a “missionary church” with an open door, not “a self-centered, self-pitying church immersed in its own suffering.”

Which pope has wanted a closed door church that is self-centred, does no missionary work, and is too busy feeling sorry for itself?

Not everyone sees Francis as “the beginning of a new spring in the church,” said Kasper. “Every pope will have his opponents and enemies.”

Certainly that is true. As much as JPII was the most beloved, he was also very much criticized, and ran into much opposition.

“The pope is not a liberal. He is a radical.” By radical, he means returning to the origins of a church rooted in mercy, said the cardinal, author of a new book, “Mercy: The Essence of the Gospel and the Key to Christian Life.”

If he is returning to a church rooted in mercy, does that mean that the popes preceding him supported a merciless church?

he described Francis as “a pope of surprises” and “a Jesuit through and through” with “a holy impatience with our divisions.”

He is the first Jesuit pope for sure.He does not show a lot of patience, holy or otherwise, for the cardinals who are critical.

“the churches are too wrapped up in their own concerns. … The church cannot be self-centered, revolving around itself, but a church on the move,”

Experiencing the church on the parish level, I have never seen my parishes as self-centred, self-absorbed and revolving around itself.
It is nice that the pope is on board in not wanting that either. I have never noticed any previous pope advocating that kind of church though.

These affirmations are susceptible of a number of interpretations.

I think so.

What is a ‘missionary church’? The Church has always been missionary.

Agreed.

What does “self-centred, self pitying…immersed in its own suffering” mean? As far as I can see, pretty much anything you like.

Whatever it means, it is not positive.

“a holy impatience with our divisions” - what divisions is he referring to? Divisions between the denominations? Between ‘progressive’ and’ conservative’ Catholics? Who knows?

As a member of another board that is not centred on Catholicism, as this board is, denominational divisions have taken their toll.
But I don’t know if all the truisms and good feelings in the world are going to fix that.

How does the Church “revolve around itself?”

But if it does, it shouldn’t.

For a prelate who got a medal for “excellence in scholarship and leadership in religious studies”, this is rather woolly language.

Wooly is good for a warm and fuzzy feeling.
And who is going to disagree with that?