Kicked out of my pew!

[Advocatus_Fidei]

While I appreciate that in some sense you are in defense of me; I must disagree whole-heartedly with this statement.

No doubt you do, and so evil and sin runs rampant throughout the world unopposed as people concentrate on been nice rather than been good.

 

[seagal]

I think Newbie2 has a valid point about the lady being “not right in the head”. I am now dealing with an elderly aunt who has been diagnosed with dementia. She often does and says things that are incomprehensible to me and out of character for her. She has said some extremely rude things and even cursed out my mother (her sister), something that she would never have done before. I remember one day the 3 of us (my mother, my aunt and I) were at mass. At the end as we were leaving the pew my mother (on the outside) stopped to chat with someone for a few minutes while my aunt and I waited still in the pew. My aunt got quite fed up and told me to “give her a push”. I thought she was joking until I saw the look on her face.

Anyway, not saying that this woman had a mental problem, but since we can’t know what’s going on in the other person’s mind and heart, it’s worth considering giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[NewsTheMan]

No doubt you do, and so evil and sin runs rampant throughout the world unopposed as people concentrate on been nice rather than been good.

Niceness and Goodness are not entirely seperate. They can go together. I don’t see your point of view here. So, in God’s house, before our Lord, I should have admonished her and given her a talking to (probably myself being angry and so doing it out of anger instead of love)?

Give me a play by play of the “good” thing to do.

 

[CWBetts]

What like feeling because you were there first you have the right to that seat. What are we in grade school? Obviously the woman has issues. Since the OP is obviously of healthier mind and attitude the Christian thing to do is let the ornery woman have her seat. This was not a restaurant or theater, this is church -I would think sacrifice would be at forefront of our minds. I can’t believe that there are Catholic posters willing to fight for a seat at Mass.

I am not saying to fight for a seat. I am saying the the woman who interrupted a Rosary and ejected someone from “her pew” is way out of line. This goes beyond simple rudeess and is elevated to pure selfishness for which there is no excuse.

 

[magic_stick]

Kicked out of my pew!

Well, that stinks!

You did what you felt was best at the time though! Good for you!

 

[Miserys_Fence]

A person who is “sixty” and goes around “ordering” people to move from “their” spot in a virtually empty church are not going to be amenable to “learn a lesson” by being confronted.
If God intended this to be an opportunity for her to learn a lesson here, He would have more likely caused her to have pangs of conscience about disturbing the person praying (the OP). Since this did not occur, I’d say that she was not going to learn any proper lesson by being confronted.

Peace
James

If I had confronted her, I guarantee she’d learn a lesson, all right.

I’m a little old lady too, but I have a cane.

Miz

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Niceness and Goodness are not entirely seperate. They can go together. I don’t see your point of view here. So, in God’s house, before our Lord, I should have admonished her and given her a talking to (probably myself being angry and so doing it out of anger instead of love)?

Give me a play by play of the “good” thing to do.

Anger is an expression of love even if it is just love of self. Have you not read in the scriptures "Be angry and sin not"Ps 4:4, Eph.4:26?

Anger is necessary in a good man to combat evil as is taught by the saints, you would sin by not getting angry in this situation.

"Only the person who becomes irate without reason, sins. Whoever becomes irate for a just reason is not guilty. Because, if ire were lacking, the science of God would not progress, judgments would not be sound, and crimes would not be repressed.

Further, the person who does not become irate when he has cause to be, sins. For an unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices: it fosters negligence, and stimulates not only the wicked, but above all the good, to do wrong.

(St. John Chrysostom, Homily XI super Matheum, 1c, nt.7)

We are Catholics not Buddhists, we do not reject creation or reject our emotions, anger is a part of us created by God it is not intrinsically bad or good it is how we use it that decides whether it becomes the evil of wrath or if it becomes the good of righteous anger.

The good thing to have done would have been to simply stand or in this case sit your ground and tell her no you are not moving the pew does not belong to her and you have just as much right to sit there as she does and repeat until she gets bored goes and sits in another pew. Or you could have simply told her to please stop disturbing you while you are trying to pray.

Pretty much anything that didn’t involve you encouraging her to be a rude and selfish person by rewarding such behaviour with respect and compliance would have been fine, didn’t anyone ever teach you to stand up to bullies?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

1. 60s isn’t “elderly.”
2. She didn’t ask, she ordered.
3. Why do we assume that this was an opportunity for the OP to practice humility? Maybe God wanted this to be an opportunity for the woman to learn a lesson instead.

Alright fine, I’ll concede every last point. And guess what? BIG DEAL? This is the “problem with society” that everyone complains about. No one ever can just let something go. In the cities this is how people get shot (I’ve burried a few “I’m gonna make a stand over a stupid issue” people). In the suburbs this is how fights happen (I’ve been called to be a character reference for people in court over sillyness). The lady was rude, get over it. Be the more mature and adult person and just move and let it go. For the love of all that is holy, its just a seat.
If your life comes down to making a stand and a scene over a seat in church then your life is in pretty bad shape. Pitty the poor woman and move on in life.

In all seriousness this thread sounds like a bunch of chldren shouting, “He started it!”

 

[Miserys_Fence]

Since neither the OP nor the older woman “own” the seat, then yes, it is absolutely a matter of “first come, first served.”

If you go to the library and borrow a book, then 5 minutes later someone comes up to you and says “hey, I wanted that book, now hand it over!,” would you? I wouldn’t. He/She will have plenty of opportunity next week when I relinquish the book–and the woman at Mass can sit in her favorite seat next week as well.

As a charitable person, I would make a note to not sit in that spot the next week so she can have it, just as I wouldn’t dawdle over reading the book, knowing that someone else is waiting for it.

(Note–I don’t assume that sitting in that particular spot “means a lot” to the woman. I am just as likely to think it’s the thrill she gets from controlling other people. Yes, even little old ladies can be control freaks, and they usually get away with it–but not on my watch.)

Miz

 

[GraceSofia]

I’m not a big fan of WWJD, but I think it might apply here. Would Jesus have been put off or would he graciously move over?

I think Jesus would have gently shown her the error of her way, like he did with many people.

But the OP is not Jesus, so that doesn’t help.

 

[GraceSofia]

I’d have told her you get an extra 90 days in Purgatory for disrupting the Rosary.

LOL

I think the fact that she felt she was more important than the Rosary is what makes me unsympathetic to her. However, the first time I read the OP, I didn’t catch that he was sitting on the end (is that right, he was on the end?), and I feel that people should scoot in to the far end of the pews to make room for others-- unless they need that end position for some reason like a health problem. But it sounds like there were other end positions available, so… yeah, the woman has issues, and I guess we should bear wrongs patiently.
And she was wrong, but there’d be no point in being told to bear rights patiently.

But don’t feel bad, Newsman, most people would be unsure of what to do and how to feel about it.

 

[catharina]

Lady says it was her pew.
OP says it was his pew.

There’s no difference.

In the presence of the Holy Eucharist???

Let it go!

 

[JadeStarr]

I’m pretty sure I would have said “NO, now leave me alone!” However I agree that the woman probably has mental health issues. In my work I’ve met people who insisted that
today was Monday…even though it was Tuesday, that they have an invisible friend with them who they consult and people who insist on singing while waiting for service.

YOU did the right thing by moving, these folks suffer greatly when they can’t do the exact same thing or sit in the exact same spot or eat the exact same food. At one time I refused to play along and then both of us ended up feeling bad. However, considering how
rude the woman was, and in such a place, I honestly believe that my temper would have
gotten the better of me, I might even have said to her “Lady, after church meet me in the parking lot!”, in the hopes that she would be scared all thru Mass.

To the poster who had someone jump in your car, please lock your doors as soon as you
get into the car!

 

[NewsTheMan]

I never really said it was my pew. At least, not in the long term. It was mine in as much as I was sitting there occupying it. And for the past few weeks had been occupying it, or that same pew at least if not that exact spot.

So next week, should I sit somewhere else to avoid confrontation. A part of me says that I should sit somewhere else. Another part says I should and can sit where I wish if the seat is free.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Lady says it was her pew.
OP says it was his pew.

There’s no difference.

In the presence of the Holy Eucharist???

Let it go!

No, No, No this kind of thing MUST BE STOPPED.

I know people who have left a church never to return ever again because of women like this lady. Imagine a non Catholic comes to the church for the first time only to be confronted by this you think that person is going to stick around?

I know of this happening, they don’t stick around, they leave and they tell everyone they know how horrible Catholics are.

 

[PatriceA]

I’m pretty sure I would have said “NO, now leave me alone!” However I agree that the woman probably has mental health issues. In my work I’ve met people who insisted that
today was Monday…even though it was Tuesday, that they have an invisible friend with them who they consult and people who insist on singing while waiting for service.

YOU did the right thing by moving, these folks suffer greatly when they can’t do the exact same thing or sit in the exact same spot or eat the exact same food. At one time I refused to play along and then both of us ended up feeling bad. However, considering how
rude the woman was, and in such a place, I honestly believe that my temper would have
gotten the better of me, I might even have said to her “Lady, after church meet me in the parking lot!”, in the hopes that she would be scared all thru Mass.

To the poster who had someone jump in your car, please lock your doors as soon as you
get into the car!

You would actually consider threatening bodily harm to a fellow parishoner over a pew??
There is something really, really wrong with that situation.

 

[catharina]

I never really said it was my pew. At least, not in the long term. It was mine in as much as I was sitting there occupying it. And for the past few weeks had been occupying it, or that same pew at least if not that exact spot.

So next week, should I sit somewhere else to avoid confrontation. A part of me says that I should sit somewhere else. Another part says I should and can sit where I wish if the seat is free.

In titling this thread, you called it your pew!

 

[PatriceA]

No, No, No this kind of thing MUST BE STOPPED.

I know people who have left a church never to return ever again because of women like this lady. Imagine a non Catholic comes to the church for the first time only to be confronted by this you think that person is going to stick around?

I know of this happening, they don’t stick around, they leave and they tell everyone they know how horrible Catholics are.

OR, you can have a fellow parishoner witness the OP confronting the lady AND still come to the same conclusion that Catholics act horribly towards each other.

 

[paperwight]

Good grief! I really can’t believe some of the views being expressed on this thread.

Whatever happened to turning the other cheek? What Jesus said, remember?

As for couching it in terms of standing up to evil, that’s incomprehensible.

An older woman ordered someone out of their seat before Mass so that she could sit in their place.
She didn’t snatch food from the starving, she didn’t grab a disabled person’s wallet or wheelchair, she didn’t aim a gun or a fist at anyone.

Perhaps she was mentally ill, we just don’t know. But EVIL? Come on, you need to get out more.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

I never really said it was my pew. At least, not in the long term. It was mine in as much as I was sitting there occupying it. And for the past few weeks had been occupying it, or that same pew at least if not that exact spot.

So next week, should I sit somewhere else to avoid confrontation. A part of me says that I should sit somewhere else. Another part says I should and can sit where I wish if the seat is free.

There is no point looking for trouble you have missed your chance to correct her now so just let it go.

Of course she may have enjoyed herself so much last time she will now come and tell you to move wherever you happen to sit.