killing nonhuman animals

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If you read the The Gospels of the Holy Twelve and The Essene Gospels of Peace, a man asked the question to Jesus about killing an animal if another man was being attacked. That is the only time you might kill an animal to protect another. But to slaughter animals for food is forbidden. Pick up those two books and you’ll see what Jesus wanted us to do. Why would most of the early Catholic Saints be vegetarian if we weren’t supposed to eat meat. These books say that eating meat is from the Devil. Look at all the sick people in the world and especially in the US who have died from heart disease and cancer and dibetes, etc… it’s all because we eat animal flesh. It’s not good for us. Read the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament also. I stopped eating all meat and fish almost 4 years ago and I am the healthiest I have ever been. My coworkers who eat meat and dairy are sick all the time, I am always here at work, I save the company dollars by not being out sick. I haven’t had the flu or a cold or anything and i am off ALL medications for asthma. It’s wonderful to feel good all the time.
MAFD
I am so happy you are the healthiest you have ever been–great for you and I hope you stay that way.Not eating meat is your choice------but-------perhaps some animal fat might help your brain to function properly!!

Your memory has either left you or perhaps you have never read the New Testament—read about the story that Christ tells about the return of the prodical son;in this passage Jesus tells us of a loving father who ordered the killing of a fatted calf ;as a festive meal to honour the return of the “fallen” son----like you,the elder brother was upset at the father killing the fatted calf!! Do you really think for a moment that Jesus would have used this parable–a teaching tool, if He knew that Catholics were forbidden to eat animals?

I am glad for you that the symptoms of your asthma has been controlled ;but do every Catholic here a favour and do not try putting Our Lords’ teachings as a support for YOUR not eating meat.The reason being, is that The Catholic Church teaches that eating meat(except on days of abstenance) is good and can be a source of grace even.Bless us Our Lord and these thy gifts(a tasty fatty steak?)-----which we are about to receive through Christ Our Lord.Amen;or as St.Paul put it **whatever you eat **or drink–do it in the Name of The Lord.
 
I dont foresee an immediate future without animal products either. I dont pretend to offer easy answers but surely we should at least work towards not having to rely on animals to survive in ways that cause stress and death (at our hands).

As to the part I bolded, well the way I see it, - We should work towards not having to eat other animals, because we are human beings, a higher being, with reason, morals and all that jazz. I know that many people who focus on us ‘being at the top of the food chain’ love the idea of us being predators. Maybe it harks back to when we actually were cavemen? Anyway my point is, as cool as that idea is, fact is we are better than the lions, tigers and crocodiles amongst others who eat other animals because they do not know better.
Well, there are other considerations.

First, fully 1/3 of the world’s useable land is not useable for anything but grass. Same is true of the U.S. We cannot digest grass, period. Certain animals can, including cattle, buffalo, elk, sheep. It is only in utilizing such animals for food that 1/3 of the world’s surface can support human life. So, in terms of the cost to the human food supply, raising of grass-eaters costs exactly nothing. (the grain fed to some is another subject, but suffice it to say that in many instances it isn’t necessary, and in some others it isn’t human-consumable grain)

Second, we are built to have the ability to eat meat. Our digestive tracts mark us as omnivores; like bears and pigs, which can eat both meat and vegetation of certain kinds. Our digestive tracts are dissimilar to those of the purely vegetarian animals. Can we somehow conclude from that that we are NOT designed to eat meat and benefit from it?

Third, the world’s grasslands will not, in the absence of herd animals, turn themselves into park lands or residential neighborhoods. Nature abhors a vacuum, and will fill it if man does not. Before the white man in the U.S. there were approximately as many buffalo out on the prairies as there presently are cattle. Indians on the peripheries and in the few river valleys of the plains starved in the midst of plenty because, by and large, they could not catch and kill those large, swift and very dangerous animals. Billions of pounds of high-quality protein on the hoof all around them, and they couldn’t access it. Only the arrival of horses allowed them to do so on a significant scale. Is there a compelling reason why we should return to the condition of pre-horse Indians?

Fourth, is there a compelling reason why we should relinquish all of that protein to predators which would kill and eat us as readily as they would the buffalo, deer, antelope and elk that would fill the prairies in the absence of cattle and sheep? Predator species breed rapidly to fill any predator void. Is there a truly good reason to relinquish all that nutrition to animals which will, inevitably, receive it instead of us and, on the peripheries of the then-deserted plains, also feed on humans? And anyone who has seen a sizeable animal die of starvation or disease or killed by a predator would never think it an improvement over human meat-processing procedures, as disturbing as those might seem to some.

Fifth, where is the teaching of Jesus in which he tells us not to eat meat? Did he refrain from the lamb at the Last Supper out of principle and were the evangelists so negligent that they did not see fit to mention such a revolutionary teaching? No, they didn’t mention it in the gospels because it was not part of His teachings.

Sixth, everything we put into our mouths, including grain and vegetables, deprives some other living creature of the means to life, though it might be an aid to some. If we didn’t eat wheat, for example, grain-eaters would multiply and eat it instead. If, then, seeing the pointlessness of raising wheat at all, we refrained from growing wheat, it would again alter their ability to live and, of course, affect ours drastically.

Finally, why does anyone think the proteins and other nutrients we get from meat can be replaced for the population of the earth by vegetation alone?

I do not condemn those who, for reasons of penance or as a spiritual discipline, refrain from eating meat, eggs, fish, apple pie or anything else. But it is wrong for anyone to suggest that anyone else is somehow morally culpable for eating those things which God has given to us and very clearly made us capable of utilizing for our survival.
 
Exactly. A blanket statement that cows should eat only grass and no grain is not supported by research.
Cattle would be “grain eaters” no matter what. Grain is, after all, nothing but the (improved by man) seed of grasses. All grasses of which I am aware, are seed bearing; some in considerable quantity. Cattle eat those seeds; some with considerable relish and benefit to themselves. Legume seeds like clover and lespedeza are particularly profuse and nourishing. Many flower species produce a lot of seed as well. Cattle will also eat (and fatten on) acorns which are, after all, the “seeds” of oak trees.

On the other hand, while I don’t condemn it, most of the grain feeding of cattle is not necessary to meat production and is done only to increase the marbling of meat with a tracery of fat. Aussies, for example, don’t do it, and prefer fully grass-fed beef. It’s a custom only, a matter of taste preference, not of necessity. It may be of some interest to realize that grain-feeding in the U.S. is decreasing due to the currently high cost of grain. As near as I can tell, that decrease has not adversely affected anything.

Poultry and hogs are a different thing altogether. They can’t live on grass and require grain for meat production. I do not see any way around that.
 
:rotfl:

:rotfl:

I will now feel guilty of eating " a non human grain" of corn in my cerial at breakfast–fancy killing a baby corn cob just to satify my hunger–I hear the cracking of the crushed cellular stucture in my mouth and the pain that it feels—😃 I am glad that I only eat meat or fish!!👍
I feel your pain, Karoleck. :christmastree1:
 
Its the Church teachings you should be paying attention to. The Church (given authority by God) teaches we can eat meat. It is not forbidden. Are you rejecting the Church teaching? Are you saying Jesus was a vegetarian and told people not to eat meat?
That’s exactly what I am saying. The only reason God allowed meat to be eaten was after the flood and there was no vegetation at that time. Look around you today, there is so much disease because of eating dead flesh that rots in the bowels. High blood pressure, cancer, diabetes, just to name a few. You should go by the bible, and Genesis tells you in the beginning what God gave us to eat. Why were there so many vegetarian saints? READ!!! Become informed…
 
This is the official Church teaching about animals:

CCC 2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

CCC 2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.
Thanks for adding this from the CCC - (bold emphasis added by me) I do not **need **animals for food or clothing - therefore for me choosing a vegan diet is I believe consistent with my faith. Critters in my home I try to usher out - ants kind of drive me nuts - I’ve tried to offer a rerouting of their path - using dish soap - and have found the most effective adding a barrier around the complete edge of the house where the house meets the dirt or concrete - it smells like oranges! I can’t remember the name - but it worked! 🙂
 
That’s exactly what I am saying. The only reason God allowed meat to be eaten was after the flood and there was no vegetation at that time. Look around you today, there is so much disease because of eating dead flesh that rots in the bowels. High blood pressure, cancer, diabetes, just to name a few. You should go by the bible, and Genesis tells you in the beginning what God gave us to eat. Why were there so many vegetarian saints? READ!!! Become informed…
Those who choose not to eat meat or use animal products make a personal dietary and lifestyle choice. To claim that Jesus prefers one choice over another is an error. Being Vegetarian or Vegan makes no one a better Catholic than another, just as eating meat makes no one a better Catholic than another.

The Catholic Church has never stated that Catholics must be Vegan, Vegetarians, or Meat Eaters. For anyone to claim otherwise is making an erroneous statement.
 
Critters in my home I try to usher out - ants kind of drive me nuts - I’ve tried to offer a rerouting of their path - using dish soap - and have found the most effective adding a barrier around the complete edge of the house where the house meets the dirt or concrete - it smells like oranges! I can’t remember the name - but it worked! 🙂
I tried the barrier methods with ants for a while, but then they circumvented that, so they were greeted with a sweet treat from Terro which they lapped up with glee. That took care of them. Then the mice came. They do not take to rerouting kindly either. So 4 found their way into traps and were removed from MY home. The suspected entry hole is now plugged. Now the blasted box elder bugs and spiders are trying to enter. Any who do enter are either caught and tortured by my cat who finds them amusing, or met with the vacuum hose. They have the entire great outdoors to frolic in, so all I ask is that they leave my 4 walls and roof alone. If they trespass, they are dealt with!
 
I tried the barrier methods with ants for a while, but then they circumvented that, so they were greeted with a sweet treat from Terro which they lapped up with glee. That took care of them. Then the mice came. They do not take to rerouting kindly either. So 4 found their way into traps and were removed from MY home. The suspected entry hole is now plugged. Now the blasted box elder bugs and spiders are trying to enter. Any who do enter are either caught and tortured by my cat who finds them amusing, or met with the vacuum hose. They have the entire great outdoors to frolic in, so all I ask is that they leave my 4 walls and roof alone. If they trespass, they are dealt with!
I should probably never admit that I inadveretently found the cure for insects in the home. We live in the country, and insects are always a bit of a problem because the woods and fields are full of them. About five months ago, I was surprised to see an ordinary tree frog in our kitchen. I was about to gather him up and put him outside when I noticed there were no bugs in the kitchen. We keep fruit on the 'island counter" year-round and that always attracts fruit flies, I don’t care how fresh the fruit is. Also, moths from outside are a constant problem. Also, ants are everywhere in the woods and they will come in too, in their seasons.

Then, a few days later, I found another tree frog in one of the bathrooms downstairs. So I figured, well, they’re not hurting anything, so I let them be. I have no idea how they got in the house, but I haven’t seen a single insect in the house for months. Maybe someday I’ll regret their being here, but for now it’s great! A bit disconcerting to guests sometimes, but it’s worth it. They’re really small; maybe the size of two quarters laid edge to edge.

The bathroom frog roams, apparently, so I discover him in various places, but mostly not at all. The kitchen frog, however, keeps his station close by the fruit bowl. Now and then he migrates momentarily to the sink; to get a drink I guess. They can climb right up any surface. But he’s never far from the fruit bowl for any significant period.

I guess their mating (and therefore calling) season is in the spring, so our romance with the frogs might end then. But for now, they’re our “house pets”.
 
Well, there are other considerations.

First, fully 1/3 of the world’s useable land is not useable for anything but grass. Same is true of the U.S. We cannot digest grass, period. Certain animals can, including cattle, buffalo, elk, sheep. It is only in utilizing such animals for food that 1/3 of the world’s surface can support human life. So, in terms of the cost to the human food supply, raising of grass-eaters costs exactly nothing. (the grain fed to some is another subject, but suffice it to say that in many instances it isn’t necessary, and in some others it isn’t human-consumable grain)

Second, we are built to have the ability to eat meat. Our digestive tracts mark us as omnivores; like bears and pigs, which can eat both meat and vegetation of certain kinds. Our digestive tracts are dissimilar to those of the purely vegetarian animals. Can we somehow conclude from that that we are NOT designed to eat meat and benefit from it?

Third, the world’s grasslands will not, in the absence of herd animals, turn themselves into park lands or residential neighborhoods. Nature abhors a vacuum, and will fill it if man does not. Before the white man in the U.S. there were approximately as many buffalo out on the prairies as there presently are cattle. Indians on the peripheries and in the few river valleys of the plains starved in the midst of plenty because, by and large, they could not catch and kill those large, swift and very dangerous animals. Billions of pounds of high-quality protein on the hoof all around them, and they couldn’t access it. Only the arrival of horses allowed them to do so on a significant scale. Is there a compelling reason why we should return to the condition of pre-horse Indians?

Fourth, is there a compelling reason why we should relinquish all of that protein to predators which would kill and eat us as readily as they would the buffalo, deer, antelope and elk that would fill the prairies in the absence of cattle and sheep? Predator species breed rapidly to fill any predator void. Is there a truly good reason to relinquish all that nutrition to animals which will, inevitably, receive it instead of us and, on the peripheries of the then-deserted plains, also feed on humans? And anyone who has seen a sizeable animal die of starvation or disease or killed by a predator would never think it an improvement over human meat-processing procedures, as disturbing as those might seem to some.

Fifth, where is the teaching of Jesus in which he tells us not to eat meat? Did he refrain from the lamb at the Last Supper out of principle and were the evangelists so negligent that they did not see fit to mention such a revolutionary teaching? No, they didn’t mention it in the gospels because it was not part of His teachings.

Sixth, everything we put into our mouths, including grain and vegetables, deprives some other living creature of the means to life, though it might be an aid to some. If we didn’t eat wheat, for example, grain-eaters would multiply and eat it instead. If, then, seeing the pointlessness of raising wheat at all, we refrained from growing wheat, it would again alter their ability to live and, of course, affect ours drastically.

Finally, why does anyone think the proteins and other nutrients we get from meat can be replaced for the population of the earth by vegetation alone?

I do not condemn those who, for reasons of penance or as a spiritual discipline, refrain from eating meat, eggs, fish, apple pie or anything else. But it is wrong for anyone to suggest that anyone else is somehow morally culpable for eating those things which God has given to us and very clearly made us capable of utilizing for our survival.
Actually, I dont believe the vast amount of people who eat meat (and even people who are in the industry) are morally culpable for anything. What is the worst thing for me, whether one eats meat or not, is one’s attitude towards God’s creatures. One can be a vegetarian (plenty are for purely health reasons or because they do not like the taste) and still abuse animals, for instance.

I have stated my views previously in this thread and in many others here, and if I had more time presently, I would elaborate again here (partly also because I find your posts to be quite charitable). However as I am pressed for time, here is my summary:

It seems logical and natural to me to not eat meat and to believe that animals should not be reared for their meat because I love and respect non-human animals (in a way that is significantly different to respect for my fellow man, so people cannot compare the two) and I find that for the average healthy person, meat is simply not strictly necessary (convenient is’nt the same thing). So for me it falls under ‘needless suffering’. I do not condemn most of the people I encounter who do meat because I understand it is a complex issu, and not everyone comes to the same conclusions about the same things… I do not think much of people who make fun of the beliefs of others, however. Not impressive or amusing at all.

Why do I think eating meat is unnecessary? Because even when my body was not at its healthiest (not from diet but due to medical conditions) I still maintained a very very active lifestyle on a vege diet. I am much better now and try to train at least 5-6 days a week.

Even if a case could be made that there will always be certain individuals or societies which require meat (illnesses, geographical location) the ‘industry’ (hate that word in this context) should certainly not look anything like it does today in most industrialised societies.
 
Actually, I dont believe the vast amount of people who eat meat (and even people who are in the industry) are morally culpable for anything. What is the worst thing for me, whether one eats meat or not, is one’s attitude towards God’s creatures. One can be a vegetarian (plenty are for purely health reasons or because they do not like the taste) and still abuse animals, for instance.

I have stated my views previously in this thread and in many others here, and if I had more time presently, I would elaborate again here (partly also because I find your posts to be quite charitable). However as I am pressed for time, here is my summary:

It seems logical and natural to me to not eat meat and to believe that animals should not be reared for their meat because **I love and respect non-human animals **(in a way that is significantly different to respect for my fellow man, so people cannot compare the two) and I find that for the average healthy person, meat is simply not strictly necessary (convenient is’nt the same thing). So for me it falls under ‘needless suffering’. I do not condemn most of the people I encounter who do meat because I understand it is a complex issu, and not everyone comes to the same conclusions about the same things… I do not think much of people who make fun of the beliefs of others, however. Not impressive or amusing at all.

Why do I think eating meat is unnecessary? Because even when my body was not at its healthiest (not from diet but due to medical conditions) I still maintained a very very active lifestyle on a vege diet. I am much better now and try to train at least 5-6 days a week.

Even if a case could be made that there will always be certain individuals or societies which require meat (illnesses, geographical location) the ‘industry’ (hate that word in this context) should certainly not look anything like it does today in most industrialised societies.
I only object to the term you used which is “I love and respect non human animals”.With due respect, if you use this terminology ,how can catholics take your position seriously.Both Peter Singer, Gary Francione have created the use of “non human animals” to blurr the distinction between a human person and an animal.

Nonhumans will continue to be exploited until there is a revolution of the human spirit, and that will not happen without visionaries trying to change the paradigm that has become accustomed to and tolerant of patriarchal violence.”

Gary Francione

“The notion that human life is sacred just because it is human life is medieval.”
Peter Singer

Google Animal Liberation it’s mission statement reads "Animal Liberation believes all animals(yes humans are animals too) have a right to live how they would normally choose without other species intervention.’

I can only conclude that any person who uses this term,in the context of this thread; must also adhere to what the “fathers” of animal liberation believe.
 
Those who choose not to eat meat or use animal products make a personal dietary and lifestyle choice. To claim that Jesus prefers one choice over another is an error. Being Vegetarian or Vegan makes no one a better Catholic than another, just as eating meat makes no one a better Catholic than another.

The Catholic Church has never stated that Catholics must be Vegan, Vegetarians, or Meat Eaters. For anyone to claim otherwise is making an erroneous statement.
No one said it makes you a better Catholic than another. However, if you do your research, there were many, many vegetarian Saints, why do you think that is? I am not condeming you or being critical of you for eating animals. But please check out Mercy for Animals and Farm to Fridge and see if that makes any difference to you. I have seen my family go from one medication to another because of high blood pressure and dibeties, heart disease and it is all because of animal protein. All I ask is that you be informed? Didn’t you know that the bibile has also been translated so many times that much has been omitted? Just be informed, the bible isn’t the only source of your information.

Have a blessed day
 
No one said it makes you a better Catholic than another. However, if you do your research, there were many, many vegetarian Saints, why do you think that is? I am not condeming you or being critical of you for eating animals. But please check out Mercy for Animals and Farm to Fridge and see if that makes any difference to you. I have seen my family go from one medication to another because of high blood pressure and dibeties, heart disease and it is all because of animal protein. All I ask is that you be informed? Didn’t you know that the bibile has also been translated so many times that much has been omitted? Just be informed, the bible isn’t the only source of your information.

Have a blessed day
Why? Because meat is expensive, and most Saints had very little money!

I gain weight when I eat carbs, but I lose weight and feel much better when I eat protein in the form of meat. That is my system. That is how my system has worked for 40+ years! You have your anecdotal stories, and I have mine! 😃

I don’t get my nutritional dietary information from the Bible or religious books…that information comes from a multitude of other sources. I am informed, and I enjoy meat! Grilled meat, fried meat, broiled meat, baked meat, and roasted meat. Time to start planning dinner…😛
 
I have seen my family go from one medication to another because of high blood pressure and dibeties, heart disease and it is all because of animal protein.
Doubt it has anything to do with animal “protein”. Fat, maybe.

But it does seem heredity is the major factor with all of those. I had an aunt who routinely ate two rib eye steaks and eggs for breakfast every morning of the world. She was a high-energy person and simply burned it up. She did die, of course, at age 94.

There is, however, little debate that morbid obesity can predispose one to those problems, and obesity is related to many things, not just overeating. But overeating can be deadly, no matter what the food is. Perhaps interestingly, those people who keep horses have to be very careful that the horses don’t overeat, even on grass. If grass is plentiful, they will, indeed, overeat and have the very same health problems you mentioned above, as well as others. Cattle, on the other hand, are more (but not totally) resistant to both excess fattiness and obesity-related diseases. At a point, most of them (but not all) will simply eat less.

One dietary formula does not fit all.
 
It seems logical and natural to me to not eat meat and to believe that animals should not be reared for their meat because I love and respect non-human animals (in a way that is significantly different to respect for my fellow man, so people cannot compare the two) and I find that for the average healthy person, meat is simply not strictly necessary (convenient is’nt the same thing). So for me it falls under ‘needless suffering’. I do not condemn most of the people I encounter who do meat because I understand it is a complex issu, and not everyone comes to the same conclusions about the same things… I do not think much of people who make fun of the beliefs of others, however. Not impressive or amusing at all.

Why do I think eating meat is unnecessary? Because even when my body was not at its healthiest (not from diet but due to medical conditions) I still maintained a very very active lifestyle on a vege diet. I am much better now and try to train at least 5-6 days a week.

Even if a case could be made that there will always be certain individuals or societies which require meat (illnesses, geographical location) the ‘industry’ (hate that word in this context) should certainly not look anything like it does today in most industrialised societies.
Animals in the wild suffer a great deal more than do domestic meat animals. Nature is far more cruel than is agribusiness.

It’s at least passingly interesting to reflect on various groups and their reaction to various things. Indo-Europeans spent tens of thousands of years as herders out on the Eurasian steppes. As at least one consequence, only Indo-Europeans retain lactose tolerance into adulthood in significant numbers. Most Indo-Europeans do, most non Indo-Europeans don’t. Why is that? Well, you can at least imagine that “natural selection” caused it. People who are utterly dependent on herd animals for their food are less likely to survive if they cannot well tolerate the diet which is available to them.Those who can tolerate it are more likely to survive and pass on the trait. Those humans who were never herd-dependent never needed to develop the trait. People of European (particularly northern European) descent have been meat-eaters as far back as anyone can tell. Other peoples, on the other hand, had meat in their diets rarely if at all, and had to live on vegetation alone or die. Does anyone really think there were no inheritable characteristics resulting from those facts?

But, one has to grant, ancient Indo-Europeans led vigorous lives in a hostile climate. What adjustments should we now make, either dietary or in terms of activity? Would Pacific Islanders need to make the same ones? One might reasonably doubt it. I do know that some people have an ability to adapt to cold exposure very quickly and seemingly burn calories at a tremendous rate in that environment, like turning on an internal blast furnace. Others don’t.

Why are Europeans, Asians, and Africans’ immune systems more efficient than those of Amerinds in combatting bacterial and viral infections? Why are the immune systems of Amerinds more effecient in combatting parasitic diseases? Why, indeed, do Asians and Amerinds tend to have a fat layer additional to what Indo-Europeans and Africans have? No one really doubts that those are all acquired characteristics born of ages-long environmental necessity or lack thereof.

There are differences in human composition, and the way a dietary formula might affect one might not affect another in the same way. One diet simply does not fit all.
 
No one said it makes you a better Catholic than another. However, if you do your research, there were many, many vegetarian Saints, why do you think that is? I am not condeming you or being critical of you for eating animals. But please check out Mercy for Animals and Farm to Fridge and see if that makes any difference to you. I have seen my family go from one medication to another because of high blood pressure and dibeties, heart disease and it is all because of animal protein. All I ask is that you be informed? Didn’t you know that the bibile has also been translated so many times that much has been omitted? Just be informed, the bible isn’t the only source of your information.

Have a blessed day
“Didn’t you know that the bible has also been translated so many times ****that much has been omitted”**No my friend,we Catholics have a Church Approved authorized translation—in other words The Catholic Church guarantee’s that this Bible is The Word of God,nothing has been omitted.

But you are correct in stating that there are other sources of information.Catholics also have the Teaching Authority of The Church.When the present Pope teaches on Faith or Morals ,he teaches what Christ wants of us to believe(without error).The Holy Father,along with The Bishops throughout the world issued The Vatican 11 Documents(The Social Teachings on this subject can be found here) The Code of Cannon Law and The Approved Catholic Catechism(which also deals with this subject.)

I only point this out just in case some readers of this thread, believe that your statement(as a Catholic) is true.

As for your use of the great example of Saints–they are our models in our way of living–there is such a variety to suite each one of us as examples to follow.From the many lives of the saints that I have read,those that abstained from eating animals did not do it for health reasons.They did it as an act of penance(giving up something that they perceived as good,for the love of God)

Out of interest could you name 10 fully vegetarian saints?**
 
I believe the continued use of the term “non human animals” by some people here ,shows that the “greens” social revolution of our society is well and truely working.A lot of “yuppy”–well educated,well paid ex “hippies” are spreading the “animal liberation/rights” ,amongst a very guilable but well meaning concern for the welfare of farm animals.

In the western world, this same political social movement use “animal & enviromental issues” as front to promote homosexuality& same sex marriage,abortion as a woman’ choice & right,IVF & adoption of babies for same sex “couples” and a general push away from the Judeo/Chritian culture of our societyu based on The Ten Commandments.

I have listed below the general ideas behind the “non human animals” movement.

" The political philosophy of veganism (more specifically animal liberation) and anarchism, creating a combined praxis as a means for social revolution"
.
“This encompasses viewing the state as unnecessary and harmful to animals, both human and non-human, whilst practising a vegan diet. Veganarchists either see the ideology as a combined theory, or perceive both philosophies to be essentially the same.”

“It is further described as an anti-speciesist perspective on green anarchism, or an anarchist perspective on animal liberation.”

“The term was popularised in 1995 with Brian A. Dominick’s pamphlet Animal Liberation and Social Revolution, described as “a vegan perspective on anarchism or an anarchist perspective on veganism”.”

The 18-page pamphlet explains how many young anarchists in the 1990s had been adopting deep ecological (animal-inclusive and anti-speciesist) mindsets as part of an overall green anarchist political philosophy. Similarly animal liberationists were becoming increasingly influenced by anarchist thought and traditions, thus becoming veganarchists and adopting an overall praxis.
 
“Didn’t you know that the bible has also been translated so many times ****that much has been omitted”****No my friend,we Catholics have a Church Approved authorized translation—in other words The Catholic Church guarantee’s that this Bible is The Word of God,nothing has been omitted.

But you are correct in stating that there are other sources of information.Catholics also have the Teaching Authority of The Church.When the present Pope teaches on Faith or Morals ,he teaches what Christ wants of us to believe(without error).The Holy Father,along with The Bishops throughout the world issued The Vatican 11 Documents(The Social Teachings on this subject can be found here) The Code of Cannon Law and The Approved Catholic Catechism(which also deals with this subject.)

I only point this out just in case some readers of this thread, believe that your statement(as a Catholic) is true.

As for your use of the great example of Saints–they are our models in our way of living–there is such a variety to suite each one of us as examples to follow.From the many lives of the saints that I have read,those that abstained from eating animals did not do it for health reasons.They did it as an act of penance(giving up something that they perceived as good,for the love of God)

Out of interest could you name 10 fully vegetarian saints?
 
I should probably never admit that I inadveretently found the cure for insects in the home. We live in the country, and insects are always a bit of a problem because the woods and fields are full of them. About five months ago, I was surprised to see an ordinary tree frog in our kitchen. I was about to gather him up and put him outside when I noticed there were no bugs in the kitchen. We keep fruit on the 'island counter" year-round and that always attracts fruit flies, I don’t care how fresh the fruit is. Also, moths from outside are a constant problem. Also, ants are everywhere in the woods and they will come in too, in their seasons.

Then, a few days later, I found another tree frog in one of the bathrooms downstairs. So I figured, well, they’re not hurting anything, so I let them be. I have no idea how they got in the house, but I haven’t seen a single insect in the house for months. Maybe someday I’ll regret their being here, but for now it’s great! A bit disconcerting to guests sometimes, but it’s worth it. They’re really small; maybe the size of two quarters laid edge to edge.

The bathroom frog roams, apparently, so I discover him in various places, but mostly not at all. The kitchen frog, however, keeps his station close by the fruit bowl. Now and then he migrates momentarily to the sink; to get a drink I guess. They can climb right up any surface. But he’s never far from the fruit bowl for any significant period.

I guess their mating (and therefore calling) season is in the spring, so our romance with the frogs might end then. But for now, they’re our “house pets”.
Love your story about the tree frogs. So sweet, I don’t have any in my home but I also haven’t seen any insects and we are surrounded by trees. We also keep fruit on the counter year round and we do get fruit flies but I haven’t seen much else. I wouldn’t mind a couple of tree frogs in my home though. Thanks for sharing 🙂
 
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