Knights Helping Refugees at the Border

[on_the_hill]

O.k. I had to read that more than once to understand. I got a notification that you responded to me, but I’m 99.% sure you were responding to @Theo520 and my quote was carried along with the post.

I almost had to argue with someone with whomst I agreed.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If you look at the symbol just before the notification you will see either a left-facing arrow or a quotation mark. The left facing arrow means someone responded to your post. The quotation mark means someone including a quote by you in their post. It confuses me sometimes too.

 

[Theo520]

They are also able to care about more than one thing at a time, amazing in our zero sum world!

Quarter of a million dollars is a real commitment. Hats off to the Knights!

So you are saying they are redirecting resources from other programs. A quarter million would go a long way to help the homeless or fund scout troops etc.

The Knights can’t print money like the Govt, their resources are limited.

BTW, it’s their right to make political statements, I objected to the OP insisting it wasn’t political.

 

[JanetF]

Go Knights!

 

[TheLittleLady]

I objected to the OP insisting it wasn’t political.

That was a direct quote from the Grand Knight of all the Knights. I am sure he has a contact email if you want to talk to him.

So you are saying they are redirecting resources from other programs.

Where did I say that?

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

A quarter million would go a long way to help the homeless or fund scout troops etc.

Leaving aside whether one should enroll ones children in today’s scouts, funding camping trips and whatever seems lower on a list of priorities than helping people who are, even by their own foolishness, homeless and without food and shelter. I’m thoroughly against illegal immigration, but these people are still in far greater need than the scouts, although I generally agree that one should help the needy in ones community before finding needy people in the same situation farther away.

 

[Theo520]

That was a direct quote from the Grand Knight of all the Knights. I am sure he has a contact email if you want to talk to him.

That doesn’t change my reference to the OP, which was the article. I intentionally referred to the “OP” instead of @TheLittleLady

Since you aren’t defending the Grand Knight, I suspect you realize it was a political move (again, that’s their right)

Where did I say that?

You said they were spending $250,000 dollars on the activity. That’s not coffee money. Granted, it’s also well within their means so I withdraw my claim it’s having any significant impact on other programs.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

You’re replying to a different person than you intended.

 

[CatholicSooner]

You attack Christians helping refugees from violence torn countries in a desert, in the richest country in the world, becoming a police state. It shouldn’t matter at all, but they are Christians with similar values. That care about family. And the government steals their children. While the President sounds increasingly like Hitler.

You call fake news on that.

Please stop with the Hitler talk. It invalidates whatever you say, even if it is a legitimate commentary

If the KofC want to spend their money helping refugees that is fine with me. However, I would be opposed to helping those coming across illegally.

 

[on_the_hill]

Huh?

 

[NewChristianConfused]

Are you a Christian?

 

[on_the_hill]

So you are saying they are redirecting resources from other programs. A quarter million would go a long way to help the homeless or fund scout troops etc.

It’s also a matter of where people want their donations to be spent. If the Knights held a fundraiser specifically for Scout Camp, then I would expect my donation to do to scouts. If I give a general donation, then I’m trusting the Knights to use it at their discretion.

There’s always a push and pull for scarce resources.

 

[CatholicSooner]

Are you a Christian?

Yes I am.

I know where you are heading with this.
I can save you some typing but saying that the Catechism of the CC actually states that nations have the responsibility to protect their borders. I’ll go find the quote for you

 

[CatholicSooner]

A country has the right to regulate its borders and to control immigration.

The overriding principle of all Catholic social teaching is that individuals must make economic, political, and social decisions not out of shortsighted self-interest, but with regard for the common good. That means that a moral person cannot consider only what is good for his or her own self and family, but must act with the good of all people as his or her guiding principle.

While individuals have the right to move in search of a safe and humane life, no country is bound to accept all those who wish to resettle there. By this principle the Church recognizes that most immigration is ultimately not something to celebrate. Ordinarily, people do not leave the security of their own land and culture just to seek adventure in a new place or merely to enhance their standard of living. Instead, they migrate because they are desperate and the opportunity for a safe and secure life does not exist in their own land. Immigrants and refugees endure many hardships and often long for the homes they left behind. As Americans we should cherish and celebrate the contributions of immigrants and their cultures; however, we should work to make it unnecessary for people to leave their own land.

Because there seems to be no end to poverty, war, and misery in the world, developed nations will continue to experience pressure from many peoples who desire to resettle in their lands. Catholic social teaching is realistic: While people have the right to move, no country has the duty to receive so many immigrants that its social and economic life are jeopardized.

For this reason, Catholics should not view the work of the federal government and its immigration control as negative or evil. Those who work to enforce our nation’s immigration laws often do so out of a sense of loyalty to the common good and compassion for poor people seeking a better life. In an ideal world, there would be no need for immigration control. The Church recognizes that this ideal world has not yet been achieved.

 

[kainosktisis]

It is not a political statement:

From Mattew 25 (BibleHub):

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Exodus 20 (BibleHub):

21 “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
22 “Do not take advantage of the widow or the fatherless.
23 If you do and they cry out to me, I will certainly hear their cry.
24 My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.

Leviticus 19: 34:
The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 10 (BibleHub):

18 He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.
19 And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

From Ezekiel 47 (BibleHub):

21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel.
22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign Lord.

 

[Theo520]

You attack Christians helping refugees from violence torn countries in a desert, in the richest country in the world, becoming a police state. It shouldn’t matter at all, but they are Christians with similar values. That care about family. And the government steals their children. While the President sounds increasingly like Hitler.

You aren’t in touch with reality on this one.

• They aren’t refugees
• They aren’t coming from war torn countries
• They are economic migrants

If their economic opportunities aren’t great back home, chastise their local Bishops who bear far more responsibility for impacting their local conditions than the US Govt.

 

[CatholicSooner]

Deuteronomy 10 (BibleHub):

18 He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.
19 And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

From Ezekiel 47 (BibleHub):

21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel.
22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign Lord.

I think using those Old Testament readings is taking those events out of context.
I notice that you don’t include any of the old testament writings where God himself instructs the Israelites to slaughter innocent people.

As for the Gospel passages, it isn’t so black and white. Me personally, if I ran across an illegal immigrant that needed help, I would help them. But that is different for a country that also has a responsibility to its citizens. If the US were to let anyone to come into the country that wanted to without proper vetting, the country would cease to exist in a relatively short amount of time.
My opinion is that individual Christians have different obligations than countries and organizations. And I think the Knights of Columbus, as representatives of Catholics, should follow the laws of the country they are in

 

[Theo520]

It is not a political statement:

Yes it is

If they want to feed Guatemalans, you send food to Guatemala and not entice them to travel thousands of miles. But in truth they aren’t starving, they just want to work hard and save money. A couple years of savings will buy a house or a farm back home.

They are economic migrants who are not destitute.

Subsidiarity dictates we should focus on the needy in our immediate communities. Where needed we should also help the Church and Govt in these countries better execute their fiduciary responsibilities.

Neither their Church Bishops nor their Govt have asked us to take these workers off their hands.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

kainosktisis:

It is not a political statement:

Yes it is

If they want to feed Guatemalans, you send food to Guatemala and not entice them to travel thousands of miles.

You mistakenly assume that the intent of the Knights is to entice Guatemalans to travel to the US. It is not. And deliberately avoiding helping those in need at the border, while it might have some effect of suppressing further immigration, is not a moral way to accomplish that goal, worthy though it may be.

But in truth they aren’t starving, they just want to work hard and save money.

I think the Knights who have made this decision are better equipped to make that judgement call than commentators like us.

Subsidiarity dictates we should focus on the needy in our immediate communities.

That is a terrible perversion of the principle of subsidiarity. What it actually says is that nothing should be done by a larger and more complex organization which can be done as well by a smaller and simpler organization. In this case there is no smaller and simpler organization that is helping these refugees. You keep referring to solving problems in their home country, and that is a good thing to do locally. But that will not help those that are already here and in need. Do you not want them to be helped, as punishment for trying to enter the US? Or do you think that the despicable help they are getting from our border officials is “good enough for them?” It is not. At least that is the judgment of the Knights.

Neither their Church Bishops nor their Govt have asked us to take these workers off their hands.

Nor are we. The refugees themselves made the decision to put their fate in our hands.

 

[Tolle_Lege]

This needs to be seen as a corporal work of mercy for these migrants.