Knights Helping Refugees at the Border

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tafan2 said:
These refugees have not done anything illegal. The come here and filed for asylum, and are put in a center at that time while their case is examined. Am I missing something?
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Yes.
Crossing the border illegally is illegal.
This is a crime and being detained should be expected.
 
Oh the horror, 30,000 a year missed their hearings, in a country of 300,000,000.

Ok, I realize we have a huge influx of these refugees, so the numbers could get worse.
 
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tafan2 said:
Very true. These refugees have not done anything illegal. The come here and filed for asylum, and are put in a center at that time while their case is examined. Am I missing something?
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In fairness, the act of crossing the boarder without permission is illegal, and is a misdemeanor under US law (first offense).

And the overwhelming majority of the asylum claims from the groups currently coming from Central America just plain don’t fit US law on asylum (whether they should or not is a separate question; I’m talking about current US law).

The initial screening interview is for “credible fear”, Asylum, though, requires governmental persecution. Maybe there should be a process for economic refugees, or victims of gangs, or those threatened by gangs, but that’s just not what current US asylum is.
Loud-living-dogma said:
I wonder why they are placed in a holding area…
Twenty-eight percent
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The figure is substantially higher for the current wave; I’ve seen estimates at about 90% . . .
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Loud-living-dogma said:
Here’s an article that points out that inaccuracy and gives the 28% estimate:
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The 28%, though, comes from 2017.

I’m not going to commit to any level, but it’s clearly higher for this wave (I presume it’s about the same as in the past for other groups). And when I saw 90% (I forget where, but it wasn’t a congrescritter), it wasn’t about the no-shows in general, but limited those making asylum claims in this current wave.

We are also dealing with “coaching” of what to say to ICE that I’ve never heard mentioned for the past groups.
 
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And the overwhelming majority of the asylum claims from the groups currently coming from Central America just plain don't fit US law on asylum (whether they *should* or not is a separate question; I'm talking about current US law).
The initial screening interview is for “credible fear”, Asylum, though, requires governmental persecution. Maybe there should be a process for economic refugees, or victims of gangs, or those threatened by gangs, but that’s just not what current US asylum is.
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Serious question - - let’s say that people living in poverty in a large American city live in fear. Credible fear. Of violence, of gangs, of retribution.
Do these people deserve asylum? Where? In Canada? In the UK? In Australia? In a nice suburb in these United States?
I’m seriously asking - - their position doesn’t seem that different from people in Latin American coming to the US.
Does everyone have the right to immigrate to any country they want for better opportunity? A safer home? A safer city?
 
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Serious answer. The church teaches the following:
People have a right to migrate for a better life
Countries have a right to control their borders and regulate immigration
Richer countries have a responsibility to take in immigrants to the extent they seem possible.

Obviously these can and will conflict. Prudential judgement is required, keeping in mind we are all called to be charitable to those in need.

Now, my prudential judgement is as follows:
It is in our best interest to have very liberal immigration laws, while securing the borders from undesirables. Anti-immigration phobia is reduculous. Legal immigration, especially from Latin America is way too limited. Immigration is a net plus for our economy, and we will never be able to secure our borders if we do not open up legal options, unless we adopt draconian measures. Also, we should work with our neighbors to help then develop an economy and secure environment where their people are not so desperate to leave. Trade agreements are an important part of this.
 
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Loud-living-dogma said:
Do these people deserve asylum?
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Leaving aside that they’re in the US, that’s not grounds for asylum, at least under our law. Maybe that should change, but I’m not going to offer an opinion on what asylum law should be; I’m merely pointing out what it is.
 
But lots of people think that these are grounds for asylum!
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
But lots of people think that these are grounds for asylum!
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And that itself is a serious problem . . . as our those that encourage coming here to claim asylum on such grounds.

I saw the figures a couple of weeks ago on what fraction was receiving asylum after hearing, and was actually surprised by how high it was. I had thought around 10%, but I think it was over twice that.
 
pnewton said:
But you have no right to criticize those who do see a need and are responding with compassion. And there is no cause for this constant attack on the integrity of those that are helping.
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God bless you for your contribution @pnewton.
dochawk said:
The AOH itself was formed to quite literally hide priests from the British army, who executed any they found.
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@Tis_Bearself did this actually happen? I can’t find references to it on wikipedia. (Sorry, I know very little about the history of British occupation of Ireland.)
 
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The occupation was rather brutal . . .

I’m actually a former member of the AOH in America (which no longer has a Nevada presence).
 
All that aside, visiting prisoners is another work of mercy. Whether or not the knights are doing right, at last as I see it, isn’t contingent on the legal status of those being given help. I think of the woman caught in adultery. Jesus knew she was guilty, and he showed her mercy anyway.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
You mistakenly assume that the intent of the Knights is to entice Guatemalans to travel to the US. It is not. And deliberately avoiding helping those in need at the border, while it might have some effect of suppressing further immigration, is not a moral way to accomplish that goal, worthy though it may be.
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How are they going to “help those in need at the border”?

Are they going to drive them to the nearest Border Patrol Agents? I can’t imagine what else they can do, legally.
 
pnewton said:
That is something I do not agree with. The current administration has even defied court ordered minimums, overloaded camps, and responded to overcrowding by increasing arrests. If by bare minimum, you mean food and water, yes, but the same can be said of a prison that still is inhumane, and even the worst ran zoo.
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And for quite some time (many many months) DHS has been asking for funding to address the surge in families. It is a crisis created and perpetuated by Dem reps who won’t provide funding.

The Knights can provide no help to address overcrowding, unless they are going to set up a private detention facility that contracts to DHS.

Think it through, it’s just political posturing. They’d do more good with a letter writing campaign to their local representatives, asking them to fund the ICE requests.
 
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Theo520 said:
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LeafByNiggle:
You mistakenly assume that the intent of the Knights is to entice Guatemalans to travel to the US. It is not. And deliberately avoiding helping those in need at the border, while it might have some effect of suppressing further immigration, is not a moral way to accomplish that goal, worthy though it may be.
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How are they going to “help those in need at the border”?

Are they going to drive them to the nearest Border Patrol Agents? I can’t imagine what else they can do, legally.
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I suppose you will have to ask them.
 
Theo520 said:
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pnewton:
That is something I do not agree with. The current administration has even defied court ordered minimums, overloaded camps, and responded to overcrowding by increasing arrests. If by bare minimum, you mean food and water, yes, but the same can be said of a prison that still is inhumane, and even the worst ran zoo.
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And for quite some time (many many months) DHS has been asking for funding to address the surge in families. It is a crisis created and perpetuated by Dem reps who won’t provide funding.
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Can you cite the text of those proposals? I would like to see exactly what the Democrats are refusing to support. I’m not sure I can accept anyone’s characterization of those proposals.
 
pnewton said:
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dochawk:
Actually . . .

Fr. McGivny, the founder of the KofC, was already involved in the Ancient Order of Hibernians in America before founding the Knights.
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LOL! Exactly. Helping those new to this country has been something the Knights have done since day one.
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Big difference between helping those that are here legally and helping those that are here illegally
 
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