Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)

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Eden:
Firstly, you are obsessed with her.
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It’s true, kujo. I hear you talk more about the Blessed Virgin Mary than most Catholics. Do yourself a favor and shut up about her for a little while so you can take this free online course. If you’re honestly seeking what Catholics believe about Mary as it relates to the Bible, then I don’t see why you wouldn’t do it. Really, kujo, I beg you to please do it. :gopray2: If you still have questions after reading that, then come back here, but until then, let’s just drop Mary since you don’t know what Catholics *really * believe about her.
 
Kujo,
I love ya man.
I just want to encourage prayer. During my conversion porcess (reformed presbyterian to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church) I had to pray often for the Lord to speak to me. I often prayed this prayer:
“Lord, may I only know/love/venerate your mother the way You do.”

I thought I would also give some quotes from someone you might actually consider (aka, anyone not Catholic)

Martin Luther -

**There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.

The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522). 👍

[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).

No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).**
 
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kujo313:
WWJD
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He would not make jokes about his mother having Alzheimer’s, for one.

I think WWJD is a good question to keep in mind when discussing his mother.
 
Secondly, you are extremely disrespectful.

Remember the post in which you asked if she has a bad memory or Alzheimer’s? Do you really believe that your behavior here is pleasing to Jesus? Do you really believe He is approves of you making cheap jokes at his mother’s expense to prove your point?

Again, I have to reply with Luke 11: 27-28

27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

If you was there, RIGHT THERE, what would your reaction be?
“How DARE you speak thatway about your mother?”

Luke 8:19-21

19 Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd.
20 And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”

Jesus didn’t say “Let my Mother in” or “Make way for your Mother.”
He didn’t do ANY of that and He even compared her to just about anybody else.

Again, what would YOUR response be?

In the first event, I would think “James and John was told to follow Jesus. They dropped their nets and did just that. Matthew was told to follow Jesus. He left his job as a tax collector and did just that.”
Then I would think of other instances where people obeyed God: Moses, Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, Paul, and others.

In the second, I, myself, would feel an emotional and spiritual “high” knowing that Jesus called ME His BROTHER!

In both instances, Jesus did not tell me to focus my attention on Mary.

Mary delivered a baby despite how the law looked at her. She raised Him as a boy and backed off when He begain His ministry. She, herself, knew that she needed a Savior and it was Jesus.

Joseph had it harder. He was accepting a child that he didn’t father. He treated Jesus like any other Jewish father did.

In all cases, we are told to hear and obey God. If we do that , we are brothers in Christ, and blessed.
 
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kujo313:
Again, I have to reply with Luke 11: 27-28

27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

If you was there, RIGHT THERE, what would your reaction be?
“How DARE you speak thatway about your mother?”
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Why do you continue to insist that Jesus rebukes His mother here? This is the third or fourth time we’ve gone over this.

Luke 11:28 - when Jesus says, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it,” some Protestants also call this a rebuke of Mary. Again, to the contrary, Jesus is exalting Mary by emphasizing her obedience to God’s word as being more critical than her biological role of mother. This affirms Luke 1:48.

Luke 11:28 - also, the Greek word for “rather” is “menounge.” Menounge really means “Yes, but in addition,” or “Further.” Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary’s example in order to build up His kingdom.

Luke 11:27-28 - finally, Jesus is the one being complimented, not Mary. Therefore, Jesus is refocusing the attention from Him to others who obey the word of God. If He is refocusing the attention away from Him to others, His comment cannot be a rebuke of Mary His mother.

www.scripturecatholic.com
 
Martin Luther -

First of all, you’ll quote Luther when it’s FOR your beliefs. Then you will IGNORE Luther when he’s AGAINST your beliefs.

Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

That is anti-Christ. Just not what is in the red letters.

You repeat the correct way every Mass:

“Through Him, with Him, in Him.” Read John’s Gospel! Jesus said that HE, Himself, is the Way that we must go through.
The Holy Spirit, who testifies of Jesus, speaking through Paul, said that Jesus is the ONLY One Mediator between us and God.
The Holy Spirit, again, through Paul, warns of people preaching any other gospel other than Jesus.

THAT is Truth according to God.
 
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JSmitty2005:
It’s true, kujo. I hear you talk more about the Blessed Virgin Mary than most Catholics. Do yourself a favor and shut up about her for a little while so you can take this free online course. If you’re honestly seeking what Catholics believe about Mary as it relates to the Bible, then I don’t see why you wouldn’t do it. Really, kujo, I beg you to please do it. :gopray2: If you still have questions after reading that, then come back here, but until then, let’s just drop Mary since you don’t know what Catholics *really * believe about her.
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Well, I didn’t make this thread. Is it mine anyway?
 
Kujo, since you were once Catholic, how many times is Mary’s name mentioned in the liturgy? How many times is Christ, God the Father or the Holy Spirit?
 
Can you imagine seeing your grown Son arrested, humiliated, scourged, crowned with thorns, bloodied and weakened yet forced to carry a cross, nailed to the cross and watching Him in agony for three hours on the cross, having no way to comfort or rescue Him?

Physically:

All of my children are alive. But I did have a sister that died of cancer. There was nothing that anybody could do to stop it. We comforted her until she died. Then we took care of my brother-in-law and my 2 nephews. We’re still in touch even after they moved away.

Spiritually:

One of my sons works in a factory. I know some things about working in a factory, but my son knows alot about that specific factory and the jobs in it.
In all the time he’s worked there, NOT ONE of the employees there have asked me anything:
“Can I talk to him?” “Can he help me?” “Can I give him a raise?”

Nothing.

He’s the “expert” there so I’m not going to tell him how to do his job or how to work there.

Mary KNEW that Jesus was the promised Messiah. As soon as Jesus started His ministry, we don’t hear much about Mary. We don’t hear of anybody approaching her or asking her anything except of the wedding in John 2.

With that, I have to ask you: do you REALLY need anybody to tell you to do what Jesus says? Can’t you just do what He says and not have to ask for permission?

Think of this: I bet Barbra Bush ain’t saying a THING right now. She’s letting her son be President. Yet, you don’t hear of ANYBODY going to her first in order to see W.

To REALLY honor Mary, just go to Jesus and do what He says. For clues: read the red letters and see what His disciples did.
 
The whole point is that you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

You spout a Bible passage to support your assertions that Jesus dissed His mom in public but that is bunkum since that would have got Him stoned to death right then and there for violating the 4th commandment. Yet none of the Jews took that statement to mean that or they’d have jumped at the chance to nail Jesus.

If you were Catholic then you should know better than all this, but I suspect that (like I was) you are actually ignorant of what the Catholic Church teaches and instead believe what you have been told about what we believe by non-Catholics who know even less than you do, but have a “mission” to prove the Catholic Church heretical, and so use stuff like this to make us “look bad”. It was an a-C attack on the Blessed Virgin that I KNEW was dead wrong that got me to stand up for the church and then dig into what she really teaches as opposed to other churches that I had spent time in. (Read it here.).

I opened this because the discussion with you about your messed up Marian beliefs was off-topic on the other thread. I strongly suggest that you stick around here and get into this because you are gonna find that you have been SORELY misled about this and many other things Catholic.

Get the facts. Decide for yourself.
 
Of course, her Son rewarded her for her suffering - for saying yes to the will of God when she went to the next life. What Son wouldn’t crown their mother “Queen” for even half of her sufferings?

God’s thoughts are not our thoughts, that is true.

We’re not talking about Kings, Queens, fathers or mothers. We’re talking GOD!
It’s human nature to think “queen” if we say “king” and “mother” when we say “father”
Jesus tried to describe God and His Kingdom in the ways that we can understand it and His love for us.

As Jesus said, we’re not to concentrate on Mary but the fact that we are Jesus’ brothers and mother IF we hear and obey God.
 
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kujo313:
Of course, her Son rewarded her for her suffering - for saying yes to the will of God when she went to the next life. What Son wouldn’t crown their mother “Queen” for even half of her sufferings?

God’s thoughts are not our thoughts, that is true.

We’re not talking about Kings, Queens, fathers or mothers. We’re talking GOD!
It’s human nature to think “queen” if we say “king” and “mother” when we say “father”
Jesus tried to describe God and His Kingdom in the ways that we can understand it and His love for us.

As Jesus said, we’re not to concentrate on Mary but the fact that we are Jesus’ brothers and mother IF we hear and obey God.
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This is more like a rambling non-sequitur.

Let’s consider something that might make better sense to you. Ever read Hebrews 11 & 12?
 
If you feel that Mary does not help you to deepen your relationship with Christ in a unique way, so be it.

I’m not so one-minded.

Doesn’t the blind man who cried out to the Son of David more than once deepen your relationship?
How about the woman with the issue of blood? She didn’t say “unclean”. She faced death by pressing into the crowd just to touch the hem of Jesus’ garment.
How about the Roman soldier? He told Jesus: “Just say the word and my servant will be healed.”

How about the tomb that is STILL empty?
How about the fact that the earth is perfect to sustain life? It’s not too close to the sun or not too far away. It tilts back and forth so to give heat to the upper and lower hemisphere.

How about all the martyrs who gave up their lives for Jesus?

How about that man in Afganistan who converted to Christianity and now faces a death sentence for doing so?

All are the same “blessed” as Mary because they heard the Word of God and obeyed it. All are brothers and mothers of Jesus.

“Through Jesus, with Jesus, in Jesus, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all Glory and Honor is yours, Almighty Father! Forever and ever!” <====== now go live it.
 
But you have been repeatedly disrespectful to His mother. That is not acceptable to Him and it’s not acceptable to me.

I’m following the example of Jesus in Luke 8:19-21 and Luke 11:27-28.

To be correct, it’s not acceptable to YOU. With that, I apologize.

If you want to focus more attention to Mary than what Jesus taught in Luke 8 and Luke 11, so be it. But don’t tell me I’m wrong for not doing what you are doing.
 
Yes but none of them co-operated with the work of God in such an intimate way as Mary. She was mystically united with the Holy Spirit in the manner of a wife. She bore God Incarnate in her womb for nine months and shared her flesh and blood with him.

She bore more pain and hardship than anyone else for his sake - not just physical but emotional too. There was the pain of being unmarried and pregnant, knowing that she was innocent but that people probably wouldn’t believe her, bearing him in her womb, giving birth to him, having to flee to Egypt, losing him in Jeruslaem. There was the pain of seeing him reviled and disliked for no reason throughout his life, the pain of seeing him suffer and die on the Cross without knowing that he would rise again, then she shared ALL the pains of ALL the early Church members because she supported them and because it was for the sake of her son that they were suffering.

All the martyrs and other Christians who have suffered no doubt have highly honoured places in heaven, but neither their tasks and achievements nor their sufferings nor their unity with Christ compare with hers.

Hopefully that wasn’t too much of a rambling non-sequitur 😃
 
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kujo313:
Physically:

All of my children are alive. But I did have a sister that died of cancer. There was nothing that anybody could do to stop it. We comforted her until she died. Then we took care of my brother-in-law and my 2 nephews. We’re still in touch even after they moved away.

Spiritually:

One of my sons works in a factory. I know some things about working in a factory, but my son knows alot about that specific factory and the jobs in it.
In all the time he’s worked there, NOT ONE of the employees there have asked me anything:
“Can I talk to him?” “Can he help me?” “Can I give him a raise?”

.
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Is anyone else as incredulous as I am at the fact that Kujo actually tries to equate being helpless to get his son a raise with Mary being helpless to stop her Son from being crucified. :eek:

Were you accidently responding to the wrong post? What I asked was the following:
Can you imagine seeing your grown Son arrested, humiliated, scourged, crowned with thorns, bloodied and weakened yet forced to carry a cross, nailed to the cross and watching Him in agony for three hours on the cross, having no way to comfort or rescue Him?
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kujo313:
Well, I didn’t make this thread. Is it mine anyway?
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I don’t see what your point is. Whenever you’re losing a debate, you revert to all the same old Mary-worship myths no matter what the thread is about.
 
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Eden:
Is anyone else as incredulous as I am at the fact that Kujo actually tries to equate being helpless to get his son a raise with Mary being helpless to stop her Son from being crucified. :eek:

Were you accidently responding to the wrong post? What I asked was the following:
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See my post - that’s far from being all she went through for his sake either
 
You spout a Bible passage to support your assertions that Jesus dissed His mom in public but that is bunkum since that would have got Him stoned to death right then and there for violating the 4th commandment. Yet none of the Jews took that statement to mean that or they’d have jumped at the chance to nail Jesus.

Actually, Jesus left the Jews speechless alot. Even His own disciples kept quiet sometimes.

Notice in the two examples that I mentioned that Jesus was REDIRECTING the people. Focus on THIS instead of little details.
“THIS”: obeying God and doing His Will. Don’t worry about who is mother or brothers are.
Mary is blessed just as everybody else who hear and obeying God and doing His Will.
 
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