Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)

[JSmitty2005]

kujo313:

Mary is blessed just as everybody else who hear and obeying God and doing His Will.

No. Mary was much more blessed than “everybody else.” In fact, if you understand the biblical languages, you’d know that at the Annunciation, the angel Gabriel tells Mary that she is the most blessed of ALL women. (Edited unnecessary remark that lacked charity)

 

[Church_Militant]

kujo313:

Actually, Jesus left the Jews speechless alot. Even His own disciples kept quiet sometimes.

Notice in the two examples that I mentioned that Jesus was REDIRECTING the people. Focus on THIS instead of little details.
“THIS”: obeying God and doing His Will. Don’t worry about who is mother or brothers are.
Mary is blessed just as everybody else who hear and obeying God and doing His Will.

This is an irrelevent dodge. If Christ had actually meant what he said the way that you assert he did, he would have been guilty under the 4th commandment and the Jewish leaders would’ve been gathering rocks.

They obviously didn’t see any put down of the Blessed Virgin, and if anyone had been looking for one they sure would have. You are reading something into the passage that even those present didn’t hear.

You need to rethink your beliefs about that passage because they don’t hold up to the plain text of the Word of God.
Pax tecum,

 

[a_clare]

kujo313:

I’m following the example of Jesus in Luke 8:19-21 and Luke 11:27-28…
If you want to focus more attention to Mary than what Jesus taught in Luke 8 and Luke 11, so be it. QUOTE]

kujo313,
Rather than looking at Luke 8 and Luke 11 by themselves to form your opinion that Mary is only as blessed as other followers of Christ, look at them in the whole context of scripture. The whole of the Bible should be considered, in context, rather than disected and seperated. Though in this instance Jesus draws direct attention away from His mother, other passages indicate that she is more blessed, and is worthy of honor.
Many in this thread have supplied very solid support of this, but you keep responding with the exact same argument, which contains truth, as it is a part of the Gospel, but is incomplete when taken out of context.

 

[St.Eric]

kujo313:

Firstly, you are obsessed with her.

Jeenkies! I gotta take that reply apart and post seperatly.

It’s not that. It’s that I was asked why I wasn’t Catholic. I stressed that there is too much emphasis on other things besides Jesus.
I made one example and it got ugly.

I guess I was asked why I wasn’t Catholic just so I could be dragged into the room, scorged and beaten.

I gave my answers by looking into the Bible for answers and i got replied with quotes from people listed after the 1st century.

It’s why a few years ago people wore bracelets that said WWJD?

By using the red letters and the words and actions taken from Jesus’ disciples, I did just that.

Now you are in the victim role. Save it. It doesn’t work

Second, how do you know that the “red” letters you follow in the bible were actually the words Christ spoke? How do you know you have the real, exact words that Christ used, since the bible you are using has been through translation after translation, version after version? How are you so sure?

 

[kujo313]

They obviously didn’t see any put down of the Blessed Virgin, and if anyone had been looking for one they sure would have. You are reading something into the passage that even those present didn’t hear.

Ok, I “rethought” it.

We’re trying to get to Heaven. We ain’t going to get there by labelling ourselves.
Jesus is the only Way.

IF you are trying to get to Heaven, WHY look elsewhere? WHY look for another “way” if Jesus said that He’s the ONLY WAY?

Jewish law says to kill our enemies. But Jesus said to love them.
Sure, we’re to treat our mothers highly, but to treat anybody over Jesus? No way.

He was born from a virgin, a sign from the Old Testament. It does NOT say to honor the virgin. You can, if you want to. But if you don’t, you aren’t wrong.
YOU say it is, but Jesus didn’t say it. He just readjusted your focus.

 

[kujo313]

St.Eric:

Now you are in the victim role. Save it. It doesn’t work

Second, how do you know that the “red” letters you follow in the bible were actually the words Christ spoke? How do you know you have the real, exact words that Christ used, since the bible you are using has been through translation after translation, version after version? How are you so sure?

Obviously SOMEBODY looked into it completely. To rewrite Old Testament Scripture, if the scribe messes up on a word, it is “erased” and rewritten. But if they mess up on God’s name, they throw the whole thing away and start over.

There has been no question to the authenticity of the red letters. They are accepted as the words that Jesus spoke.
Too bad that some people don’t listen.

 

[St.Eric]

kujo313:

Obviously SOMEBODY looked into it completely. To rewrite Old Testament Scripture, if the scribe messes up on a word, it is “erased” and rewritten. But if they mess up on God’s name, they throw the whole thing away and start over.

There has been no question to the authenticity of the red letters. They are accepted as the words that Jesus spoke.
Too bad that some people don’t listen.

Do you have any idea who that “SOMEBODY” might be?

 

[Eden]

kujo313:

But if you don’t, you aren’t wrong.

The Church does not teach that asking Mary to pray for us is a requirement for Salvation. I have already stated that one can live their entire life without acknowledging Mary and be in harmony with Catholic teaching. So, would you please stop bearing false witness against the Church by claiming that the Church teaches we must?

 

[LilyM]

kujo313:

Sure, we’re to treat our mothers highly, but to treat anybody over Jesus? No way.

He was born from a virgin, a sign from the Old Testament. It does NOT say to honor the virgin. You can, if you want to. But if you don’t, you aren’t wrong.
YOU say it is, but Jesus didn’t say it. He just readjusted your focus.

Hang on - where on Earth did you get the idea that we’re honouring Mary over Jesus? A big ‘no way’ to that.

Jesus didn’t say to do it - he did it himself many times over. He honoured her firstly by choosing her from among all the women who ever have existed and ever will exist to be his mother. Jesus himself was an extraordinary man, totally sinless. Do you think he’d pick any common female off the street to be his mother? Of course not - he picked the best woman that ever has been and ever will be.

Secondly, Jesus honoured her by performing the miracle at Cana at her request (she didn’t really request even - just gave the servants orders in absolute faith and trust that he’d do what she asked even after he’d refused initially).

Thirdly he honoured her by thinking almost with his last dying breath of her and entrusting her to the disciple who he loved most - ‘this is your son … this is your mother’. And we believe he was in effect giving her to ALL his followers as the spiritual mother of ALL of them.

Put it this way - I love my mother, she’s a special woman. No way would I be jealous of any honour that’s given to her no matter how high it is. I consider her honour exactly as I would my own because I love her.

Mothers and children, assuming that the relationship isn’t dysfunctional in any way, which Mary and Jesus’ wasn’t, have a very special bond. Remember that he was unmarried too - so there was no wife to share his affection, it all went to Mary.

 

[a_clare]

kujo313:

They obviously didn’t see any put down of the Blessed Virgin, and if anyone had been looking for one they sure would have. You are reading something into the passage that even those present didn’t hear.

Ok, I “rethought” it.

We’re trying to get to Heaven. We ain’t going to get there by labelling ourselves.
Jesus is the only Way.

IF you are trying to get to Heaven, WHY look elsewhere? WHY look for another “way” if Jesus said that He’s the ONLY WAY?

Jewish law says to kill our enemies. But Jesus said to love them.
Sure, we’re to treat our mothers highly, but to treat anybody over Jesus? No way.

He was born from a virgin, a sign from the Old Testament. It does NOT say to honor the virgin. You can, if you want to. But if you don’t, you aren’t wrong.
YOU say it is, but Jesus didn’t say it. He just readjusted your focus.

First of all, no one here is looking for “another way” to get to heaven by honoring Mary, and by honoring Mary, Catholics do not “treat [her] over Jesus.” To do so would be heresy. We are in agreement on this.

 

[a_clare]

well said LilyM

 

[LilyM]

a_clare:

well said LilyM

Well I know just a little something about thirty-year-old unmarried children and their mothers in Mediterranean cultures

(ummm … that would be because I am one in case you didn’t get the hint)

 

[havemercy]

Jesus was never rude to His mother. Ever. I bet my very life on it.

 

[kujo313]

St.Eric:

Do you have any idea who that “SOMEBODY” might be?

History of the Red Letter Edition.

Louis KIopsch, the first editor for the Christian Herald. Mr. KIopsch was born March 7, 1852, in Germany. In 1853 his mother died. The next year his father, Osmar KIopsch, M.D., brought him to the United States. Louis studied journalism at what is now Columbia University. He graduated with high honors. He rose from stock boy to editor with religious publishers, and by about 1889 he was the owner-editor of the American edition of the Christian Herald Magazine.
He and his father worshiped at Brooklyn Temple, where T. DeWitt Talmadge was the minister. June 19, 1899, Dr. KIopseh was writing an editorial for the Christian Herald when his eyes fell upon Luke 22:20 and the words:

“This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.”
Dr. KIopsch realized that these were the words of our Savior when he instituted the Lord’s Supper. Reasoning that all blood was red, he asked himself, Why not a red letter Bible with the red words to be those of our Lord? Dr. Talmadge, his preacher, encouraged him greatly by saying: “It could do no harm, and it most certainly could do much good.”
The editor besought Bible scholars in America and Europe to submit passages they regarded as spoken by Christ while on earth. (Some publishers have since expanded this feature to include all words in red spoken by Christ.)
The first printing of a red letter Bible [Copyright 1899&1900(?) by Louis Klopsch] numbered sixty thousand copies. They were printed on presses owned by Dr. KIopsch. The edition sold quickly. Presses were run day and night to supply the demand. The King of Sweden sent a congratulatory cablegram. The telegram that thrilled publisher KIopsch the most, perhaps, was one from President Theodore Roosevelt. There followed a letter on White House stationery inviting him to dine with the chief executive. He accepted.

  Dr. KIopsch died March 28, 1910

angelfire.com/la/prophet1/images/1900redletter2.jpg

 

[Will_Pick]

Church Militant:

There are too many errors in this post to refute on the thread it was posted on, so I have opened this one so that Kujo will see that he’s been fed a long line of a-C malarkey.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23,“ALL”
Have babies sinned,have people that are insane sinned.Did John the Baptist sin ?Luke 1:15

 

[kujo313]

Will Pick:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23,“ALL”
Have babies sinned,have people that are insane sinned.Did John the Baptist sin ?Luke 1:15

“All” comes from the origional Greek meaning: “all” except the One that was 100% devine.
All of us are born with a sin nature. Our flesh, too, wrestles against the Spirit. That’s why Paul said we must crucify our flesh daily. Jesus said that our spirit is strong but our flesh is weak. He also said that God is a Spirit and we need to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. (Truth = Jesus)

You can baptize babies and they can still grow up living in the flesh and for the flesh. People need to change. But they need to WANT to change. After that, baptism. (“Repent and be baptized”)

I believe that there is an “age of accountability”. Up to a certain age and maturity (differs with people), the parents are responsible to God for theor children. Then, when they reach that “age”, they are responsible for themselves. They should dedicate themselves to God on their own and be baptized.

 

[Mickey]

kujo313:

I believe that there is an “age of accountability”.

Can you show this to us in the Bible?

 

[Orionthehunter]

God freely chose to create us out of nothing. He so loves us that He gave us a soul so that we could experience His love and love Him. In order to love Him, we have to spend time with Him, know everything we can about Him, and not have false impressions of Him.

Story: Imagine a slave who is the personal slave to the master of the plantation. This slave is allowed to live in the masters house, eat his food, and have a pretty good life relative to the other slaves. He obtains and maintains these benefits so long as he meets the master’s needs and treats him with respect. He isn’t required to love him or even know him. All he has to do is satisfy the master.

When I read someone who always talks with the tone of a Kujo who always expresses an idea it is all about Jesus, I sense a relationship like this slave and the master. I don’t see them loving the master but only serving him. If they loved Jesus, they’d love what He loves. He loves His mother. He wouldn’t tolerate her being disrespected.

And to truly love someone (ie the Trinity), it is important to know them. It requires us with an open heart to try to absorb everything about the Trinity given to us in Revelation (primarily thru Scripture but also found in the world around us).

Jesus’ mother tells us so much about His humanity. He could have chosen to have just “popped” onto the earth in human or even super-human (ala Superman) form to reveal Himself but He didn’t. He chose to become Incarnate via a humble Jewish woman 2,000 years ago. If we have the perspective that His method of being Incarnate is a distraction, we lose the opportunity to understand and grasp the Revelation that comes from His mother. And this lost opportunity prevents us from knowing God as fully as possible. And not knowing God as fully as possible impedes our capacity to love Him as much as possible.

I’m not a Catholic Christian because I think it the best or only way to Heaven. I’m a Catholic Christian as it affords me the best way to know God, to best allow me to experience His love, and best love others as He wants me to do.

God is all and omni everything. His love is perfect. As He is perfect, I have confidence He will mercifully do what is appropriate for me in this world and the next. I have nothing that isn’t a gift from God. If I gain eternal life in His presence, it is also a gift from God. In the meantime, I’m going to do my best to know God, experience His love, love Him, love what and who He loves (including His mother and those in this world He has put in my life), and fulfill His plan for me.

 

[kujo313]

Mickey:

Can you show this to us in the Bible?

Ahh! Trick question! You don’t believe in “Sola Scriptula”.

Though it does not correspond to a particular age for every person, due to differences in personal and psychological maturation, it is sometimes set down arbitrarily as 12 or, in the Catholic Church, 7.
A child who has passed the age of accountability is said to know the difference between right and wrong and to be capable of obeying the moral laws of God.
(Those persons who, due to disabled mental or emotional development, will never reach a sufficient level of abstract reason, are covered by this grace for life and are sometimes known as ‘the innocents.’) In Christian traditions which practice Believer’s Baptism (baptism by voluntary decision, as opposed to baptism in early infancy), the ritual can be carried out after the age of accountability has arrived. Some traditions withhold the rite of Holy Communion from those not yet at the age of accountability, on the grounds that children do not understand what the ritual means. Full membership in the Church, if not bestowed at birth, often must wait until the age of accountability and frequently is granted only after a period of preparation known as catechesis.

Does that answer it for you?

 

[Mickey]

kujo313:

Though it does not correspond to a particular age for every person

I didn’t think so.

kujo313:

Some traditions withhold the rite of Holy Communion from those not yet at the age of accountability, on the grounds that children do not understand what the ritual means. Full membership in the Church, if not bestowed at birth, often must wait until the age of accountability and frequently is granted only after a period of preparation known as catechesis.

The Roman Catholic Church baptizes infants and then proceeds to catechize the child in preparation for Holy Communion and then confirmation. This is a discipline. The Eastern Catholic Church and the Orthodox administers the sacraments of baptism, holy communion, and chrismation to infants at the same time. But notice that infants are baptized without regard to age.

kujo313:

Does that answer it for you?

All I know is that you copied and pasted a response from somewhere. It is obvious that these are not your words. Did you know that forum rules mandate that you provide references when you copy and paste from another source?