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montanaman
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Leaving aside your nod to pantheism, I beg to differ–Jesus said he is the truth. And I personally believe “in vino veritas.” Ergo…
Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)
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kujo313
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Hey, I wasn’t there to ask him “why red?” I could ask: “Why not red?”
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kujo313
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True. Baptize your child when you want. As an infant or as an older child, none is incorrect. Some sprinkle, some immerse.
Just raise up a child in the way he should go.
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St.Eric
Guest
Kujo:
PLEASE use the quote button when responding to a post. Your responses are confusing without the use of that feature. And thank you for answering my question about the bible you use.
PLEASE use the quote button when responding to a post. Your responses are confusing without the use of that feature. And thank you for answering my question about the bible you use.
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Mickey
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kujo313
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One reason I left the Catholic church is that it wants to control Salvation. It’s like going through a secretary and a foreman just to meet with the owner of a company.
It’s written many times that we can go directly to the “owner”. We don’t have to stop at the front desk or go through a “foreman.”
I never hear of the “owner” or what He did/has done/been doing in the life of the person. No witnessing of what the Lord has personally done.
Can I hear it from you? Can we talk about other things than one other person?
I’m willing to drop this whole link and do just that.
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Orionthehunter
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It is so obvious that you read nothing or failed to grasp the Pope JPII’s writings on this subject but this statement is so grossly false and misleading as to be “bearing false witness.”
Thank you for your warning. However, Catholics have developed a keen ability to avoid the apocoleptic (I know spelled wrong) warnings of false prophets and other nonsense. Your ignorance of what Catholics believe and profess is of a magnitude beyond reason.
I have no idea what point he is trying to make unless to prove that Kujo has as idiotic understanding of the Eucharist as the people that executed people for being canibals.
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kujo313
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Actually, I’m trying to avoid the “eucharist” arguement between Catholics and Protestants. (Though I do want to know that why the bread and wine are believed to be actual, but nobody who believes that plucks out an eyeball or cuts off a hand)
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Mickey
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Oh no. Why didn’t anyone tell me I was being mind-controlled?
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Fiat
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Kujo:
Of course Christ is higher than us all, and frankly, I did not prove your point. You seem not to understand a key element about our participation along with Christ in salvation history. St. Paul says in 2 Timothy 2:10 “Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation, which is in Christ Jesus, with heavenly glory.”
Through Christ, St. Paul was their salvation, and true gratefulness does not hesitate to bestow honor and glory upon St. Paul, even as the faithful recipients rejoiced in Christ. Nor would Christ begrudge this fact, since He, too, is rejoicing.
In 1 Thessalonians 2:10, St Paul says “For what is our hope or joy or crown of glory? Are not you, in teh presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? For you are our glory and joy.” St. Paul does not deny that he receives glory from their salvation.
Also, 2 Corinthians 1:12 “For our glory is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity of heart and sincerity of God, and not in carnal wisdom, but in the grace of God, we have conversed in the world: and more abundantly towards you… As also you have known us ijn part, that we are your glory, as you also are ours, in teh day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
God the Heavenly Father did not chose you, Kujo, to bring the Incarnation of His Glory into this World. He chose the Blessed Mother. In light of St. Paul’s message, I am pleased to increase the glory of Mary by letting her apply the merits of Christ to save me.
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RyanL_s_Wife
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WOW!!! And it is things like this, that really make me question whether or not to convert. Seriously, I think I am just about ready to make the leap and then I read something like this…
You guys should really think about some of the things you say and how they reflect on Catholicism on a whole. Consider who you may be turning away from Catholicism with remarks such as this.
To expound on this point, I will answer the question orionthehunter asked. – The reason I (and many of my friends) have some hostile feelings toward Mary is because we have been exposed to “some” not so correct Catholics who go a little too far. Being from South Texas, there are quite a few people (usually of Hispanic descent…nothing against Hispanics, that is just generally where I have noticed it) that do in fact go a little too far with “honoring” Mary. Obviously, this is not what the true Catholic church teaches, but how are we, as non-catholics, suppose to know this? So then when Mary is brought up, we (some protestant) do a back shuffle and get as far away as possible from the subject so as not to make the same mistake. I guess I just wish all Catholics followed all Catholic teachings. That would make conversion so much simpler. Instead there are those that pick and choose and other who are just ignorant of their own faith. So us non-catholics have no way a knowing what the Church actually believes unless we get out the CCC and do all the research ourselves. (sorry, a little bit of a tangent) But to answer your questions. I think some of us are scared of “honoring” Mary, because we have witnessed other Catholics doing much more than “just honoring her” Then overtime, that timidness develops into “bigoted, ignorant responses” I am not saying it is right or justified, just giving an example of how it might come about in some circumstances. Just my opinion.
RyanL’s Wife
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JSmitty2005
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So you’re saying that the Church is a mediator of salvific knowledge between God and man, right? (And, yes, we all know that there’s only one mediator, blah, blah, blah.) But doesn’t your Bible mediate information to you about salvation? Isn’t that “like going through a secretary and a foreman just to meet the owner of a company”?
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JSmitty2005
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RyanL's Wife:
They’re right, though. Protestantism as a whole has rejected any kind of model of femininity and has over-masculinized Christianity. Because of this rejection of Mary and her true femininity, feminism (false femininity) started and spread like wildfire in Prostestant-dominated countries.
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St.Eric
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RyanL’s Wife said:
Just remember what the church teaches, there are those who pick and choose in every religious demonimation. I know of Mormons or fundamentalists who sneak alcoholic drinks or tobacco. There are many other examples. Don’t judge the teachings of a church by the actions of those who do not follow the teachings.
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Mickey
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RyanL's Wife:
RyanL's Wife:
Peace and blessings to you on your journey!
Please keep in mind that many of the apologists here get very frustrated with those who falsely proclaim to know what the Catholic Church actually teaches. I do not make excuses for any lack of charity, (I have been guilty many times), but sometimes frustration strips us of our humility.
RyanL's Wife:
Hence, the frustration. You see, it’s not only protestants who put forth bad theology. Many times it is unknowledgeable Catholics. But the deposit of faith is not affected by the misunderstandings of the flesh. We must keep focused on Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the magisterial teaching office of the Church. The sinner in the pew does not change doctrine. Of course you could also talk to your husband–he is very knowledgeable.
Peace and blessings to you on your journey!
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MrS
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Yes God is everywhere… but we don’t go outside, fall down, and worship a tree.
As for your insensitive, erroneous, and blasphemous comment, you (with your sola scripture blindness) have totally rejected the word of God as sworn to my Christ Himself, in John 6
God chooses to give us children only with our cooperation, and they are innocent and dependant on human assistance.
Jesus chose to come to us as a fragile child, totally dependant on human assistance.
Jesus also chooses to come to us even more fragile… in the host…totally dependant on human assistance.
If I were to make your comment, I would be a heretic and a sinner
You said it… just plain stupid, and ignorant… and hateful
You have earned your nickname, this time
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Mickey
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Hello MrS,
I believe that comment came from someone else directed at kujo. But since he is unable to understand how to use the quote function properly, it looks like he made the comment.
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SemperJase
Guest
RyanL's Wife:
The veneration of Mary was one of my big stumbling blocks. I can’t say I am completely comfortable with it in all its forms (after all, I was an evangelical for 35 years).
Then I looked at the Mass. In a debate, someone made the false claim that the church says the Hail Mary during mass. Now I had been going to mass for some time and realized this was not true. I took a closer look and realized everything in the mass points to Christ.
Even Kujo in an earlier post said:
So his argument contradicts. We don’t know the way to Christ even though that is what mass is all about.
It sounds like you are at the point I was at about a year and a half ago. Just remember, contrary to what some say claim we say, we are not infallible. Neither are we impeccible. Don’t be surprised to learn that the catholic church is full of sinners! If we fall short of your expectations, rest assured we are trying to live up to a Godly standard but we know we frequently fall short of the mark.
True. I would like to remind you that we all are responsible for our own actions. As I said, the catholic church is full of sinners. It is also filled with people who genuinely love God and try to follow his commandments.
The veneration of Mary was one of my big stumbling blocks. I can’t say I am completely comfortable with it in all its forms (after all, I was an evangelical for 35 years).
Then I looked at the Mass. In a debate, someone made the false claim that the church says the Hail Mary during mass. Now I had been going to mass for some time and realized this was not true. I took a closer look and realized everything in the mass points to Christ.
Even Kujo in an earlier post said:
Exactly! That is what catholics are all about. Everything points to that, even the Hail Mary.
So his argument contradicts. We don’t know the way to Christ even though that is what mass is all about.
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MrS
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Confusion reigns … his comments, others comments all mixed together… I see what you mean
Stephen King gave us cujo who was mad
CA gives us kujo who is maddening
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kujo313
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I put the word “wine” in quotations because the “wine” of back then is not the “wine” that it is now. Some parishes use grape juice, some use different wines (not unless there’s an “Official Wine of the Roman Catholic Church”. You don’t see THAT on any TV commercial).
As far as John 6 goes, please use the verses you mean to quote. Don’t just skim over it.
In verses 60-69, Jesus clearly explains what He said earlier. He was talking about Himself and not bread.
“Yes God is everywhere… but we don’t go outside, fall down, and worship a tree.”
True. But we can see the tree and worship God. After Jesus ascended into Heaven, it is written that the disciples went to the temple and worshipped God.
As far as John 6 goes, please use the verses you mean to quote. Don’t just skim over it.
In verses 60-69, Jesus clearly explains what He said earlier. He was talking about Himself and not bread.
“Yes God is everywhere… but we don’t go outside, fall down, and worship a tree.”
True. But we can see the tree and worship God. After Jesus ascended into Heaven, it is written that the disciples went to the temple and worshipped God.
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