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Robert_Bay
Guest
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Charitably discuss the issues not each other
Charitably discuss the issues not each other
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Convert_in_99
Guest
Totally agree.I guess none of y’all actually know an immigrant.
If you want the US to remain Catholic. you’d better welcome the Mexicans.
The system is indeed broken.
It takes WAY too much money to get in the country.
My husband came in from Ireland 6 years ago. You can’t believe how much of his savings it took. Most people don’t have that kind of cash lying around.
We had a church employee from Columbia who had to leave…a professional Architect, worked for the parish for pennies to live in a cheap efficiency apartment, his wife taught in the Catholic school, again for way less than they paid anyone else…never broke a law, but their permits ran out and they can’t come back. Intelligent, well educated people.
Ridiculous.
Those who think all immigrants are criminals just don’t know the vast majority of good people.
They’re not taking anything away from Americans. They pay cash for everything, and what they can’t afford, they don’t try to buy, unlike Americans who run up debt like crazy.
I’m not going to read any further because I know I’ll get slammed and I can’t fight this.
But the Mexicans that I know are wonderful people who want the same things for their kids that I do. Mexico is a terrible, unsafe place. They really contribute a lot to our local economy and to the Church. Honest. But, people who think they’re a drain will never believe it, so
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Theo520
Guest
Are you suggesting they won’t be successful back in Columbia?I guess none of y’all actually know an immigrant.
If you want the US to remain Catholic. you’d better welcome the Mexicans.
The system is indeed broken.
It takes WAY too much money to get in the country.
My husband came in from Ireland 6 years ago. You can’t believe how much of his savings it took. Most people don’t have that kind of cash lying around.
We had a church employee from Columbia who had to leave…a professional Architect, worked for the parish for pennies to live in a cheap efficiency apartment, his wife taught in the Catholic school, again for way less than they paid anyone else…never broke a law, but their permits ran out and they can’t come back. Intelligent, well educated people.
Ridiculous.
Those who think all immigrants are criminals just don’t know the vast majority of good people.
They’re not taking anything away from Americans. They pay cash for everything, and what they can’t afford, they don’t try to buy, unlike Americans who run up debt like crazy.
I’m not going to read any further because I know I’ll get slammed and I can’t fight this.
But the Mexicans that I know are wonderful people who want the same things for their kids that I do. Mexico is a terrible, unsafe place. They really contribute a lot to our local economy and to the Church. Honest. But, people who think they’re a drain will never believe it, so
Andy why do people often boil it down to ‘they work hard and for less money’
Nobody thinks all illegal immigrants are criminal felons, and you too are stereotyping by insisting that all of Mexico is terrible and unsafe.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
You don’t have to presume that all of Columbia or all of Mexico is terrible and unsafe to recognize that the specific individual immigrant standing before you would be in grave danger if she returned to that country. And while it is nice to theorize about how their home country could be made more prosperous, or how the individual immigrant could be successful there, unless you are standing in their shoes, you cannot know what troubles they face. But they do know. And that is why they have taken such terrible risks in some cases to come here. People do not risk so much when a safer alternative exists.
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Theo520
Guest
Your average illegal is in no grave danger if they return. I could claim the same and reference the dangers of life in Chicago.
However, if they have legitimate cause, urge them to apply for refugee status.
If you are concerned about their return trip, step up and buy them a plane ticket.
I have stood in those shoes. Went abroad without work when I was young, had to find work and make myself legal. Their desire to risk it all for greater wealth is not justification to break our immigration laws. The smartest thing we can do is take away the carrot, so they stop taking the terrible risks you imply.
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pnewton
Guest
I am sure the tourist destinations are kept safe. The Catholic Herald said that Mexico (not the beaches, I am sure) is the number one most dangerous country to be a Catholic priest, even more so than the Middle East.
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pnewton
Guest
I think you missed the point the AB was making. We need to change immigration law to allow them to be documented.
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pnewton
Guest
“Illegal” is an adjective, or a derogatory term if used as a noun. I would bet that we have two hundred million citizens, or more that illegally speed. If law and order is so important, perhaps all cars should have governors.
Anyone, one who breaks the traffic laws then complains about illegal immigration being “illegal” is inconsistent. It is the mote and beam.
Anyone, one who breaks the traffic laws then complains about illegal immigration being “illegal” is inconsistent. It is the mote and beam.
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abucs
Guest
I have no problem with the term ‘illegal’ as a shorthand descriptor of people in one country who are there illegally.
Everyone knows what it refers to and i do not see it as a derogatory term but a concisely accurate one.
What i have had enough of is people trying to control the discussion by policing other people’s language.
Everyone knows what it refers to and i do not see it as a derogatory term but a concisely accurate one.
What i have had enough of is people trying to control the discussion by policing other people’s language.
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abucs
Guest
You can argue for both but do not confuse the Christian personal charge with a political government preference.
They are not the same thing.
When you mistakenly cite Christian morality for political ends you are going to get a very angry push-back. People are sick and tired about being lectured to on a moral level about political issues. This is the very basis of the sickness of political correctness that has caused so much resentful argument and division.
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Theo520
Guest
Should we send in our National Guard to patrol their streets?
Somehow the Mexican people need to take responsibility for improving their governance. I’m all for helping empower them, if you have ideas. Letting them all move here isn’t the answer though.
What objections do you have with our current quotas? I think we are a bit lopsided and my preference is to not shut out other countries from the opportunity, just because Mexico is closer and they can walk in uninvited. I’m open to amnesty for some but not all. Our borders are being flooded in anticipation of such amnesty.
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pnewton
Guest
“Everyone knows…” Let me help instruct. Here is the Oxford Dictionary.
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/illegal
I am not trying to control the discussion, but I thought on a Catholic website a little charity should be expected.
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pnewton
Guest
They are ridiculously small. They also are immoral, according to Catholic social doctrine. Instead of offering a preference for the poor, as our faith teaches, it is the skilled professional that is given the preference.
Besides, if border security is what has really driven the anti-immigration movement, as opposed to racism, then security would best be served by documenting everyone. At times like this I wish states had greater economic independence. This is such a manageable problem.
Exaggeration is not conducive to discussion. All of Mexico is not going to move here.
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Theo520
Guest
Please back up your claim that our legal numbers are ridiculously small, no hyperbole.
It’s also not immoral to select based on our need, your approach is like insisting your child marry the poorest person they can find, so they can ‘lift them up’. The US Govt is expressly responsible for the well being of US Citizens, we are not the world Govt.
However, we do accept Refugees and provide aide and protection at the source. We are the primary funder of the UN programs.
If we allowed open borders to Mexico etal, we’d be immediately swamped with millions of new citizens chasing economic opportunity. Too many can be very dangerous and cause a harmful backlash.
I agree, documentation is a key aspect in securing our borders, we need a working e-verify, we need to crack down on employers that break the law as well as Identity Theft by illegal immigrants.
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pnewton
Guest
It is immoral. It is a direct violation of Catholic social teaching that demand a preference for the poor.
usccb.org/about/domestic-social-development/resources/upload/poverty-common-good-CST.pdf
[web.archive.org/web/20160802175343/http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html#The universal destination of goods and the preferential option for the poor](Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church universal destination of goods and the preferential option for the poor)
An yes, the United States also has a responsibility to the world. We are the rich man of the world in the parable of Lazarus. We dare not follow his path into perdition.
Historically, this has not happened. Immigration has paved the way a greater economic future. Having too much labor is as odd as having too much capital, or too many natural resources. Immigration has always had its detractors who have engaged in nativist fear-mongering, predicting disaster from all the Irish, Polish, Chinese, and now the Mexicans.
The situation today is nothing new. We have been through this before.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Push-back is nothing new. John lost his head over it.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
If you think help at the source is so great, would you like to live a refugee camp?
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Millie123
Guest
Your post reminded me of my Advent Reflections from Yesterday. It was a reading by Pope Francis:
"No one can demand that religion should be relagated to the inner sanctum of personal life; without influence on societal and national life, without concern for the soundness of civil institutions, without a right to offer an opinion on events affecting society. An authentic faith - which is never comfortable or completely personal- always involves a deep desire to change the world, to transmit values, to leave this earth somehow better that we found it.
We love this significant planet on which God has put us. and we love the human family which dwells here, with all its tragedies and struggles, its hopes and aspirations, its strengths and weaknesses. The earth is our common home and all of us are brothers and sisters. If indeed the just ordering of society and of the state is a central responsibility of politics, the church cannot and must not remain on the sidelines in the fight for justice." Pope Francis
What you seem to be asking is for us to lay down our Christian morality in political discussion and insulting our Christian morality as political correctness.
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exnihilo
Guest
I can’t control how others react to an innocuous word. If from one word someone decides that illegals don’t deserve humane treatment then the problem is with the person not the word. Illegals is short for illegal immigrant. Everyone knows that. Illegal immigrant is as kind a term as you can use for the people in question. I’ll continue to use the word because the arguments against the word are in my opinion silly.
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exnihilo
Guest
Illegal is short for illegal immigrant. Illegal is used as a noun just to be short with our words. The best solution to those who are offended by the word is to deport all the illegals so we have no more use for the word.
Speeding does also break the law. But this isn’t hypocrisy for those who speed to complain about illegals. Speeding laws fall into the category of infraction whereas illegals are committing at least a misdemeanor. Infractions are basically legal trifles. It is sort of like the difference in a venial and mortal sin. Except we’d need a third category if we wanted to include speeding and we don’t have that since it is as I said basically a trifle.
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