I don’t think there’s a “one size fits all” argument, but I think it’s fair to assert that Christians place their trust (and find it reasonable to do so) in certain sources of information, whereas atheists neither trust nor find it reasonable to trust in these sources.
Perhaps poor catechism is not the sole cause but the total rejection of the faith by some many youth is often explained by ascribing traits or beliefs to the church that are absolutely false. Even though I’m still waiting for science to prove there’s no God–and frankly the more things go along the better the case for God (without endorsement of the particular Judaeo-Christian God) seems to be based on what I read–science seems to be another popular reason given…and it shouldn’t be.
So true! Many an atheist has said, “I don’t believe in a magical guy in the sky who grants wishes,” and my response to that is, “Neither do I.”
I would have no foundation to believe the claims of science, if I didn’t believe in God.
There are many groups that identify as Christian that also have differences on their concept of God (and of Jesus). The attributes that one might name about the God concept that they state is not their own might give some insight to the dominant Christian variation in the person’s life from either their community or their family.
I don’t know of anybody who would identify as a Christian who doesn’t hold three fundamental beliefs:
Good point.
In that case the next question is: “do you ever ask for something in the form of an intercessory or supplicatory prayer”? Mind you, I am not asking about “meditative prayer”, there is nothing problematic about that. I am questioning if you ever ask for some specific result - even if you add the almost mandatory “if it be thy will” to it. You can see many examples in the “Prayer Intentions” sub-forum.
Since there is no universally accepted concept of God, it is hardly the fault of skeptics that they seem to be “confused”. As a matter of fact, there are at least two very different and mutually contradictory “Christian Gods”… one is the “God of the Bible” and the other one is the “God of the philosophers”. They have nothing to do with each other.
I do ask God for favours - but I don’t think He lives in the sky (Heaven is a state of being; not a location), and I don’t think He’s a person like me except with superpowers, or a magical being that grants wishes, or not, according to some kind of whim.In that case the next question is: “do you ever ask for something in the form of an intercessory or supplicatory prayer”? Mind you, I am not asking about “meditative prayer”, there is nothing problematic about that. I am questioning if you ever ask for some specific result - even if you add the almost mandatory “if it be thy will” to it. You can see many examples in the “Prayer Intentions” sub-forum.
Because if you do, then you believe in the “magical guy in the sky who grants wishes”, which is underscored the Bible as “ask and you will be answered” and “knock and the door will be opened”. It does not matter what do you ask for, a new, better paying job, a miraculous recovery for someone you love… or to get home when your fuel indicator is too low.
All these people believe in the “magical guy above the clouds”.
Since there is no universally accepted concept of God, it is hardly the fault of skeptics that they seem to be “confused”. As a matter of fact, there are at least two very different and mutually contradictory “Christian Gods”… one is the “God of the Bible” and the other one is the “God of the philosophers”. They have nothing to do with each other.
And, of course, you can just read the posts in this small thread, and you will find examples of “you don’t really want answers”, “you just want to dictate and insult”, which are the most insulting types of utterances.
I cannot answer for the vegetarians, since I am not one of them. But I can answer the question: “why don’t you believe in god, or gods, or God?” where the capitalized “God” refers to the god of Christianity (which is a special subset of all the “gods”).
Do you believe that there is such a thing as love? I’m not talking about the hormonal reaction or physical response to romantic feelings, but rather, the idea that someone can choose to do something that is good for the other person merely because it is good for the other person, without any expectation of personal gain.
I remember asking our young curate about it when I was a young lad. He implied that he didn’t really understand it himself. But either he worked it out at some point or it didn’t do him any harm not knowing – he went on to became the Bishop of San Diego.I know one person who gave up his faith because a 16 year old Sunday School teacher couldn’t explain the Trinity to him. Instead of asking someone more knowledgeable, he just decided that Christianity makes no sense.
Then let’s say ‘a supernatural being who grants wishes’. I fail to see the difference. Nobody really thinks God is a Morgan Freeman look-alike sitting in a cloud, but most people believe he will look kindly on any prayers. Why else are there 15 (and counting) people who have taken some of their valuable time to post in this forum and pray for a dog who belongs to a friend of someone they don’t know.
The increasing lack of a belief in the Christian God (for any number of reasons) generally leads to further questions about the existence of the supernatural in general. And then a realisation that one needs to include a whole pantheon of gods in the box marked ‘I don’t believe’. Including the ones that cure distemper and find computer discs.An assertion for atheism means, loosely, “I don’t believe in any god”, not just “I don’t believe in your God.” (Granted, most believers don’t care why you don’t believe in the other things that they don’t believe in, either.) But, it makes the atheist seem intellectually lazy if they answer the question “why don’t you believe in my concept of God?”, when they’ve really been asked “why don’t you believe in any concept of God?”…
So that gives you an insight into an ephemeral existence beyond the physical world?
It sounds like you may be describing something like the following.
I’ve got a coworker that when asked about his dietary restrictions will answer that he is a vegetarian to most people. To some people he will say he is a Lacto-Ovo vegetarian. He’s a pescatarian (they avoid poultry and red meat). But he rarely uses that label when people ask about his diet because often times they don’t know what it means. He uses Vegetarian as an approximate description that people understand. While not a perfect understanding of his actual position no one would ever take him to a restaurant that has food he can’t eat from the description. I’m sure if he took the time he could explain his diet to someone. But many people gravitate to brevity in communication with the trade off of fidelity. A person in a community where beef is the strongly preferred meat might be sufficiently expressing themselves to others in their community by stopping at “I don’t like beef.”
Discussions in conversations tend to be more on summaries than on details. If a person were asked why he/she is not convinced of the existence of God if the person did have such a belief before then I would expect her to focus on why she went through that transition. If the person never was a part of any religion then she might talk about why she wasn’t convinced by the major religious groups of her environment. As you mentioned the there may be God-concepts about which the audience is thought not to care leaving little to no motivation to bring them up. A person that grew up in a city that was primarily Christian might not talk about why she also was not convinced by what she has read about Buddhism or Islam. A person that grew up in a Southern Baptist reason might not talk about why she also was not convinced by what she has learned about Catholicism. You’ll end up with another answer that is a summary and brief and leaves out details.An assertion for atheism means, loosely, “I don’t believe in any god”, not just “I don’t believe in your God.” (Granted, most believers don’t care why you don’t believe in the other things that they don’t believe in, either.) But, it makes the atheist seem intellectually lazy if they answer the question “why don’t you believe in my concept of God?”, when they’ve really been asked “why don’t you believe in any concept of God?”…
It raises the possibility that our responses to the events around us could be more than just instinctive or self-serving - that our use of intellect isn’t simply an illusion based on blind physical responses.
Hunger is definitely a physical instinctive response. I’m not sure how it relates to what I was saying.
I’m actually the opposite: I encountered the Catholic faith when I was eighteen/nineteen, and became converted. I was reading this Englishman named Chesterton, and took a philosophy class, and read about this man named Thomas Aquinas. My religious apathy was no match for such a deep perspective
Well you are different! Good for you!I’m actually the opposite: I encountered the Catholic faith when I was eighteen/nineteen, and became converted. I was reading this Englishman named Chesterton, and took a philosophy class, and read about this man named Thomas Aquinas. My religious apathy was no match for such a deep perspective
Christi pax.
That’s because it doesn’t. It’s a physical sensation.