Latin Mass Society asks bishops to embrace traditionalists as ‘spiritual children’
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ProVobis
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FWIW, when I was associated with the Latin Mass Society, they had as one of their goals the promotion of Latin in the newer Mass. But as time went on, they gradually found that it was much easier to promote the 1962 Missal, something which Pope John Paul II had found as well. As did Pope Benedict.
Whether or not this tactic will work, it couldn’t hurt IMO. But know there are still many at work trying to make the 1962 Missal fail no matter what tactic is tried by groups such as the Latin Mass Society. Most of this resistance is found it seems from those who one observer called “stuck in the 70’s.” That the LM has appeal to the younger crowd apparently frightens them.
Whether or not this tactic will work, it couldn’t hurt IMO. But know there are still many at work trying to make the 1962 Missal fail no matter what tactic is tried by groups such as the Latin Mass Society. Most of this resistance is found it seems from those who one observer called “stuck in the 70’s.” That the LM has appeal to the younger crowd apparently frightens them.
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Neofight
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***Open letter makes an appeal for an end to ‘marginalisation’ of those attached to Extraordinary Form
The Latin Mass Society has written to all the bishops of England and Wales asking them to reach out to Catholics attached to the traditional Mass.
Joseph Shaw, chairman of the LMS, invited bishops to visit Extraordinary Form congregations to see that they were “not a source of division, but a demonstration of a truly Catholic unity in diversity”. ***
I can only base any interaction with self-professed “traditionalist” seen on this website, but while I think it important to make the EF a viable part of Catholicism, it appears to me (only my opinion, and again based only on some of the threads that often turn ugly here) that many of “those attached to the Extraordinary Form” have not been marginalized by others, but have purposely distanced (if not alienated) themselves from Catholics that are okay with the OF.
So, hopefully, the request of the LMS will bring unity and understanding…but charity has to be mutual…I just feel that any group entering into a dialogue with the believe, claim, or perception that they have ben marginalized, and are victims, will not prove very productive, or unifying.
Peace and all Good!
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JimR-OCDS
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The problem I’ve experienced from traditionalists is that they treat the Novus Ordo in the vernacular as if it were heresy and those who prefer it as heretics.
So, if they feel marginalized, it’s probably due to their own attitudes toward the ordinary form of the Mass.
Jim
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JRKH
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Allow me to speak for those who are NOT radicalized…
I Love the EF. I Love the OF.
I do not Love efforts from either side that serve only to divide.
(Can one be radically moderate???
)
I applaud efforts such as the letter referenced in the OP but don’t expect much to come of it - at least not in the short term.
This is because there are so many things that the bishops are dealing with that they are not likely to make this any sort of priority beyond possibly a conciliatory pastoral response.
As for those who ARE radicalized (on both sides), there really isn’t anything we - as moderates - can do about them. All any of us can do - on either side of the fence - is to speak and act charitably toward each other.
my 2c duly deposited…
Peace
James
I Love the EF. I Love the OF.
I do not Love efforts from either side that serve only to divide.
(Can one be radically moderate???
)I applaud efforts such as the letter referenced in the OP but don’t expect much to come of it - at least not in the short term.
This is because there are so many things that the bishops are dealing with that they are not likely to make this any sort of priority beyond possibly a conciliatory pastoral response.
As for those who ARE radicalized (on both sides), there really isn’t anything we - as moderates - can do about them. All any of us can do - on either side of the fence - is to speak and act charitably toward each other.
my 2c duly deposited…
Peace
James
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TheLeastofThese
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Sadly, that’s the impression I get as well…for whatever reason, supporters of the EF vs. the OF come across sounding as if the world came to an end when the Mass began being said in the vernacular and any Catholic who prefers the OF is on a slippery slope to Hell and that only with the restoration of the 1962 missal, will the Church be saved.
I totally understand that there have been abuses and I agree 100% that those abuses need to be addressed and prevented from recurring. I also understand that the OF was never intended to entirely replace the EF. However, I do not agree that the only valid form of the Mass is the EF in Latin nor that the only music appropriate for Mass is Gregorian chant which seems to be the position of many traditionalists.
I think the thing that is most harmful to the Church is not whether the Mass is said in the vernacular or in Latin, nor whether the priest faces the people or the altar…the thing that is most harmful to the Church is that Satan tries to use these differences to drive a wedge in the Body of Christ. This is our greatest danger.
I hope my post does not touch off a firestorm of negative responses…I truly love all my brothers and sisters in Christ and my prayer is always that we will be able to put our differences aside…We are one body in Christ.
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pianistclare
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JRKH
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With regards to the bolded section…All such posts run the risk of setting off such a firestorm if for no other reason than it tends to point out the splinter in the another’s eye while ignoring the splinter in one’s own eye.
Those of us who (like yourself) tend to take a more moderate approach, need to recognize and admonish radicalism that comes from both sides - - - and it doesn’t matter where one might perceive such radical views might has started.
I am old enough to remember how quickly and precipitously things changed in the mid 1960’s from Latin to English - Altars spinning around - Prayers and the order of mass changing. It was enough to make peoples heads spin.
And not only at the time, but for some time after, those who wanted to slow these things down; to ask why and where it all was going were, in many cases, ignored.
I can tell you with certainty that one way to radicalize a group who feels strongly about something is to ignore them and marginalize them.
The “traditionalist”, and their defensive outlook, did not arise in a vacuum - and Bishops (many long since retired) had a big part in that.
Let’s all remember that there are plenty of splinters to go around in this.
Peace
James
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ProVobis
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Same can be said for just about any bilingual parish. You do make a valid point about the language. Spanish and English don’t seem to mix well either. Latin is no one’s native language so why should anyone want it.
Yet you have more Latin on a $1 US Bill and the Seal of the U.S. (the flags the President or Speaker of the House stand in front of) than you have in a typical Mass. And that Latin wasn’t/isn’t because of preference.
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JimR-OCDS
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Well how often do you read what’s on a dollar bill ?Same can be said for just about any bilingual parish. You do make a valid point about the language. Spanish and English don’t seem to mix well either. Latin is no one’s native language so why should anyone want it.
Yet you have more Latin on a $1 US Bill and the Seal of the U.S. than you have in a typical Mass. And it wasn’t because of preference.
How often do you attend Mass ?
Prayer in your native tongue is far easier to center yourself on than going through the gymnastics of translating in your mind.
Jim
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ProVobis
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All the time now, and I point that out to many people I know. And aren’t you the least bit curious as to what’s written on those flags?
Sat vespers and Sunday. English, Spanish, and Latin Masses.
Who said anything about having to translate in your mind? I can go to a Spanish Mass and understand the Gloria, Credo, the Pater Noster without translating anything. And I don’t speak Spanish.
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JimR-OCDS
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ProVobis said:Well, you’re just gifted.
Jim
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FollowChrist34
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This whole debate (the full details of which I do not know and I hope to stay that way) make me glad I am a reverted and not a cradle Catholic. I hate to see people squabbling over things like this. How you celebrate Mass and in what language is just one facet of being a Christian. If someone prefers old wineskins fine, I welcome it; if they prefer new wineskins (and are not violating doctrine or the Magisterium), fine. I personally would like more Latin in the Mass. And I respect the old traditions enough to think it would be a beautiful thing to have them present and welcome in the Church. But I also support using vernacular languages for Mass. I agree with the argument that it is a message for everyone, the educated and the uneducated. If we only had Latin Bibles, I would be out of luck. Jesus was definitely into reaching into and transforming people’s hearts, not just performing traditional, high aesthetic ceremonies. I personally happen to think that the beauty such as you see in the traditional liturgy IS one of the best ways to transform people’s hearts, but surely there is room for compromise on both sides here.
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ProVobis
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JimR-OCDS
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Pope Benedict XVI caused more division than unifying when he allowed full use of the TLM, which was meant as a compromise with SSPX members, hoping they’d return to the Church.
It didn’t work. They would never return peacefully.
Pope John Paul II was wise in not giving in to their demands.
Jim
It didn’t work. They would never return peacefully.
Pope John Paul II was wise in not giving in to their demands.
Jim
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boar2roar
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The SSPX are not going to comeback unless the changes of Vatican 2 are reverted and the general views of church leadership change drastically (which will never happen). The church is more likely to go the opposite direction and there are a lot more progressive church leaders than the small amount of traditionalists. With Pope Francis now there is a real animosity from SSPX towards the vatican because they view him as a modernist and a justification for their split back in the JP2 era.
Its not necessarily a bad situation though. SSPX have no intrest in setting up a rival Papacy. They aren’t a modern version of old catholics. They are genuinely catholic and I don’t see any hidden agenda from them. If anything their devoutness is admirable.
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JimR-OCDS
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All the members of SSPX that I’ve had to deal with on web forums, were young people who had a strong attachment to Catholic identity. They were generally rude and aggressive and one kept telling me I was following a false Pope in John Paul II.
There is nothing positive about these people dividing themselves from the one true Church.
Jim
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pianistclare
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Nothing can be gained from encouraging people to disobey Rome.
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ProVobis
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Maybe it’s an unfair comparison but I’m going to say it anyway. It could very well be that the FSSPX situation is very much like the suppression of the Jesuits back a couple of centuries ago. Then again, maybe not since they have their own bishops.
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Seamus_L
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I don’t mean it in an arrogant way, but I’ve believed for a long time that most people within the Catholic Church simply don’t understand how strong are attachment to the Latin Mass is.
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