C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
No, its not rinnie. Your understanding of purgatory is flawed. As St. Thomas teaches, Hell is about torment, where Purgatory is about cleansing.
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C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Thats a bunch of nonsense. If there are no “stages of evil” then there would be no “mortal” vs “venial” distinguish. You listening to yourself? What sort of justice is a communist Hell where everyone is treated equally?Just like there are no stages of evil. evil is evil. there is not good evil.
R
rinnie
Guest
And I will repeat to you again that after their fall means that they rejected Christ. Read the first line please. It is irrevocable, they made thier choice. They never accepted Christ and never will.God is all merciful, compassionate, forgiving, and loving. But we cannot repent after we die. I will once again post what your catechism states:
CCC 393
It is the *irrevocable *character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."
You only have death if you refuse to accept Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ took away death, he beat death. he released men from death. Why do you think he died on the cross, and then went to release men from death. Death was what the devil had over us. Jesus took that away. We believe that when we leave this world that we go to another world. That is everlasting life if we choose Christ. If you choose the devil you choose the darkness the death. Christ is the light everlasting Life. Devil is the darkness everlasting death and suffering.
R
rinnie
Guest
Because hell is eternal fire. You are making it sound like the devil is going to be fair in hell or something. You make no sense to me. There is no justice in hell. We believe that you either go to purgatory or hell or heaven. That is why purgatory is not hell. it is a tempory place of suffering. Hell is a forever. eternal.Thats a bunch of nonsense. If there are no “stages of evil” then there would be no “mortal” vs “venial” distinguish. You listening to yourself? What sort of justice is a communist Hell where everyone is treated equally?
Explain the quotes to me please.
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
This is where you are wrong, which seems to be the theme in this discourse on Hell.What kind of punishment could be worse then being separated from God. Once you are separated from God thats it.
Catechism of the Catholic Church **1057 **Hell’s principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
The wording is principal, not ONLY. This means there are other punishments for those damned souls; punishments that fit the sin.
“By what things a man sinneth, by the same also he is tormented” (Wisdom 11:17).
R
rinnie
Guest
Because to sin is to make a mistake. To be evil is to make a mistake and not be sorry for it. That is why when we sin, we admit that sin, and ask God for forgiveness and then must not sin again. To be evil is to sin and sin and sin, and never ask for forgiveness because you are not sorry. And to keep doing it.
R
rinnie
Guest
rinnie;4673114:
**1057 **Hell’s principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.This is where you are wrong, which seems to be the theme in this discourse on Hell.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
The wording is principal, not ONLY. This means there are other punishments for those damned souls; punishments that fit the sin.
“By what things a man sinneth, by the same also he is tormented” (Wisdom 11:17).
Look at what you are saying, you are saying hell is eternal separation from God, which I agree, but then you say in hell there is mercy. Now how can you have mercy without God. Mercy is a grace you can only get from God. Explain this to me. Again you are saying that hell show’s mercy are you not. Punishments fit the sin, would that not be showing mercy Yes or No?
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Where did I say mercy? I said Justice. Its God the one who is punishing you since He sends you there, and His punishment is JUST. Mercy and Justice go hand in hand.Look at what you are saying, you are saying hell is eternal separation from God, which I agree, but then you say in hell there is mercy.
Matthew 23:15 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell **twofold **more than yourselves.
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Most logical persons would agree that is what is defined as Justice.Punishments fit the sin, would that not be showing mercy Yes or No?
R
rinnie
Guest
got ya. Now do you agree Mercy is a grace from God. Yes or No?Most logical persons would agree that is what is defined as Justice.
R
rinnie
Guest
Your own words last line read em.Where did I say mercy? I said Justice. Its God the one who is punishing you since He sends you there, and His punishment is JUST. Mercy and Justice go hand in hand.
Matthew 23:15 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Where did I say mercy? I said Justice. Its God the one who is punishing you since He sends you there, and His punishment is JUST. Mercy and Justice go hand in hand.
Matthew 23:15 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.
I don’t follow what you are saying. I quoted the above because according to Christ, there is at least a distinction in being a twofold child of Hell verses onefold. What is the benifit or loss of being a **twofold **child of hell?Your own words last line read em.
R
rinnie
Guest
Again why would he be sorry he was in hell. I thought being sorry was to repent. I thought when you repent you are admitting you were wrong, and are asking forgiveness for your sins. I thought that if you are truely sorry for a sin you can be forgiven. I was always taught the only way you could not be forgiven for a sin is to truely not be sorry. I always thought to feel remorse was a grace from God, to keep us on the right track. So you are saying that when evil people hurt others they really do feel remorse? But since they are evil they keep doing it anyway, but they are sorry?Actually, he was sorry that he ended up in Hell. If he had been sorry during his lifetime about how he had treated Lazarus, he would have remedied the situation at that time, instead of dying in his sins.
The fact that a sin is common does not mean that people aren’t going to Hell for it. God does not grade “on the curve”.
It is quite possible that every person who denies to help the poor, or who takes more than he or she needs, is going to go to Hell, unless they change their ways in this lifetime. There is nothing in the Bible or anywhere else that says, “Oh, everyone is doing it. So, I will be lenient and let you get away with it.”
And where did I ever say you can get away with any sin without doing penance. Suffering for your sins is what penance is. Which is what We call Purgatory, you are sorry for your sin, and now you are getting cleansed from that sin. How long you will be punished for that sin, is up to God. That is why we call Purgatory a temportal punishment. God controls Purgatory. The devil controls hell.
R
rinnie
Guest
Your words Mercy and Justice go hand in hand!I don’t follow what you are saying. I quoted the above because according to Christ, there is at least a distinction in being a twofold child of Hell verses onefold. What is the benifit or loss of being a **twofold **child of hell?
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Do you believe that those in Heaven share the same glory?Your words Mercy and Justice go hand in hand!
If not, would you please provide your references that suggest the Blessed Virgin Mary and Lazarus do not share the same glory in Heaven? Thanks.
R
rinnie
Guest
Oh yes, the Blessed Mother and Lazarus I do believe are sharing the same Glory. But you have to remember Purgatory or what they called in the OT hades was a holding place.Do you believe that those in Heaven share the same glory?
If not, would you please provide your references that suggest the Blessed Virgin Mary and Lazarus do not share the same glory in Heaven? Thanks.
Hades was the place of waiting AND cleansing. As you can see by the story of the Rich man he was in the cleansing period. Lazarus was ready, that is why he was with Abraham, he was waiting. They could not enter heaven until Jesus opened it up.
That is why they could see eachother. Granted the Rich man could not get to Lazarus, he was still in the process of purification.
Read proverbs 15:27 By mercy and faith SINs ARE PURGED away and the fear of the Lord everyone declineth from evil.
Proves Purgatory is a place of purging sins. Now if we die and have no sins why be purged. We would not need it.
I am not saying everyone must go through purgatory. But honestly I can see no one except God and the Blessed Mother or was sinless.
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Goodness. Buddy, I’m sorry to say it, but what you are saying is anti-Catholic. I only asked this question to see if you would give that response, which unfortuently you did. You got a lot to learn about the the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Saints, what glory is, and much more.Oh yes, the Blessed Mother and Lazarus I do believe are sharing the same Glory.
M
Mickey
Guest
“…after death there is for men no repentance.”you better be able to repent of veniel sin in the next life
St John** of Damascus**
R
rinnie
Guest
Why do you see all being in heaven and sharing the glory differently. I was always told when you get to heaven we all share the same Glory. The Glory of Christ. Now what you are saying there is a different glory in heaven other than Christ. I sure do not know where you are comming from thats for sure.Goodness. Buddy, I’m sorry to say it, but what you are saying is anti-Catholic. I only asked this question to see if you would give that response, which unfortuently you did. You got a lot to learn about the the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Saints, what glory is, and much more.
Again to say that when we get to heaven to be with the angels and Saints and share in that glory is anti catholic I would sure love to see how.
Where does it say that we all do not share in the same glory in heaven. I would love to see the scripture. Could you show me?
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Whatever happens in purgatory, which is a mystery, must eventually free us from the bonds of sin, no matter how grave or trivial. If you agree that you can die with sins on your soul and still go to Heaven, how can a sin go unrepented yet that person enter Heaven? Anyhow, this is probably off topic. I imagine St. John here is talking about grave sin.“…after death there is for men no repentance.”
St John** of **Damascus
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