LDS: What do you know about your Heavenly Mother? Would you like to know more?

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well we believe that we were all created in pairs so we did love someone in the pre-existence and you are correct you can only be sealed to them on the Earth in the flesh.
Show me from an official LDS source where it says we were created in pairs. (Hint: there is no such LDS teaching anywhere)

Again this is not LDS belief, but rather something made up by someone trying to sell books to gullible kids.

So you, like so many of the LDS on these fora, have made up your own religion and called it Mormonism. Why not believe the truth - Christianity?
 
Sorry if you perceived my comment as rude, but the doctrines you mentioned from those books (and from your dad) are definitely not approved by your church. I’m glad you are searching outside the bounds of your church and not restricting yourself to the LDS party line. That is encouraging. 👍

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
well it says on the front of the books LDS CLASSIC BESTSELLER almost all the books that are sold in Dessert Book are in some way approved to be true by the General Authorizes but we don’t add it has doctrine.
 
Show me from an official LDS source where it says we were created in pairs. (Hint: there is no such LDS teaching anywhere)

Again this is not LDS belief, but rather something made up by someone trying to sell books to gullible kids.

So you, like so many of the LDS on these fora, have made up your own religion and called it Mormonism. Why not believe the truth - Christianity?
gullible kids? and we consider ourselves Christian because we like you believe in Christ.
 
gullible kids? and we consider ourselves Christian because we like you believe in Christ.
You may consider yourselves to be Christian, but no one else does. The Christ you believe in is completely different from the Christ we believe in.

I could say I believe in Christ and Christ is a magical purple goat who lives in my basement. Does that make me a Christian?

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
Again Croso, I challenge you:

Show me an official LDS source that says we were created in pairs.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
You may consider yourselves to be Christian, but no one else does. The Christ you believe in is completely different from the Christ we believe in.

I could say I believe in Christ and Christ is a magical purple goat who lives in my basement. Does that make me a Christian?

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
i understand where you are coming from. i read that you were once mormon im just wondering what drove you to be Catholic? becsause i hardly ever see mormons leave the church.
 
Again Croso, I challenge you:

Show me an official LDS source that says we were created in pairs.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
i heard it from my dad. and hes read almost all the books containing that info.
 
well it says on the front of the books LDS CLASSIC BESTSELLER
Many of the trashy steamy romance novels by Jackie Collins are best-sellers, too. That doesn’t make them truth. You must realize, even at 14 years of age, that popularity has nothing to do with truthfulness.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
Many of the trashy steamy romance novels by Jackie Collins are best-sellers, too. That doesn’t make them truth. You must realize, even at 14 years of age, that popularity has nothing to do with truthfulness.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
but you are avoiding the other part of the sentence almost all the books sold in Dessert Book are in some ways approved by the General Authorities.
 
i understand where you are coming from. i read that you were once mormon im just wondering what drove you to be Catholic? becsause i hardly ever see mormons leave the church.
That’s funny because I can almost guarantee if you live anywhere with a decent concentration of Mormons (the West mostly) close to half (or more in some cases) of your ward are less active or inactive. Those people left the church for a reason and I can also say that many of them are attending other churches. You’re 14 so you haven’t had any callings which required you to be in charge of any more than a deacon or teachers quorum, which hardly gives you access to enough people to have a good idea of how many people are less/inactive. Hold a calling like high priest group leader, EQ pres or bishop and then we’ll talk.
 
i heard it from my dad. and hes read almost all the books containing that info.
Okay Croso, if you’re going to go from being a kid to being an adult, you have to accept the fact that not everything your dad tells you is true. He may be a fine man, but he is not all-knowing or perfect.

You need to find things out for yourself - do your own reading and research.

I promise you, your dad is dead wrong about this. That is NOT LDS teaching. It may be fun to believe stuff like that, but it makes no sense and is not remotely Christian.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
but you are avoiding the other part of the sentence almost all the books sold in Dessert Book are in some ways approved by the General Authorities.
So the Fablehaven books have been approved by the GAs, because they are sold there too
 
but you are avoiding the other part of the sentence almost all the books sold in Dessert Book are in some ways approved by the General Authorities.
Yeah, well “truth” according to the Mormon General Authorities changes often. They will sign off on anything they think will keep you from leaving the church. You are too young to have lived through the big changes in LDS doctrine that I have lived through, but I guarantee that you will.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
i hardly ever see mormons leave the church.
Then you must be blind. Mormons are officially leaving the church at the rate of about 480 per day. That comes from a friend of my family who works in the membership records department at the COB in SLC.

And that doesn’t count those who leave without bothering to have their names officially removed from the records of the church.

Activity rates in many areas outside the US are about 5%.

The LDS church is shrinking at a startling pace, because people are able to find information about LDS origins, history and doctrines on the internet. Once people learn the truth about Joseph Smith and Mormonism, they almost always leave.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
i heard it from my dad. and hes read almost all the books containing that info.
That is exactly where most LDS members get the impressions of doctrine that are actually not Doctrinal. In case I need a little credibility with you, Croso, I am the author of the story at this link: lds.org/new-era/1990/05/the-man-who-counted-stars?lang=eng I hold no animosity against the Church, though I occasionally get impatient and militantly defensive with members who I do not believe are being on the level.

Now that you claim you are 14, I cannot try to persuade you to believe what I do. I can share my beliefs with you and why. I can point out when some things you have been taught are inconsistent with your church’s doctrine, but I would be just as out of line to argue Catholic points with you as I would be with my own nephews, or my non-Catholic grandkids.

I can understand where you got this idea of married spirit couples in pre-mortal life, as “Saturday’s Warrior” was a big deal during my peak involvement in the Church. While I wouldn’t call it doctrine, I would call it authoritative speculation about the time I served my mission that we were organized into families in pre-mortal life, and that facilitated the Grand Council. However, I know nothing authoritative on that.

Let me address a point showing how self-contradictory some of the arguments you have been taught are from a strictly LDS perspective:

If we are created as spirits in pairs, wouldn’t that mean that the additional females would only fracture existing bonds, if reassigned for polygamous relationships?

As a Mormon your standard of what is valid doctrine is the Book of Mormon,as Joseph Smith called it “The most correct of all books”. Jacob Chapter 2 makes it very clear that the God you are taught to believe in despises polygamy. He clearly states that he only commands it when he has a shortage of covenant people (“to raise up seed”) which is the exception, not the rule. Many members in their speculation treat the idea of polygamy as the rule, and the current ban on it the exception, and this is inconsistent with the book that is the keystone of your religion. It affirms monogamy as the rule and polygamy as the exception. Learn that and you will understand more about your religion than most LDS youth your age ever get a grip on.

If God could allow any spirits (male or female) who sinned against a perfect knowledge and rebelled against him in heaven to remain there, why would transgressing without knowledge of good and evil at all justify expulsion from Paradise? Such a God has a double standard. If one thrid of the spirits rebelled, and one-third were cast out, who did God expel in place of the women he allowed to remain.

Spirits created in pairs – female spirits that rebelled not expelled from heaven – all of these are false doctrines within Mormonism. I still do not doubt that books labelled as LDS classics might contain these concepts. The Deseret Bookstore chain sells many products that are not official church publications. Even Deseret Books, the publisher, publishes few things with the offical stamp of LDS doctrine – even books by the general authorities.

As an example of how even books by GAs can be non-doctrinal, the book “Faith Precedes the Miracle” by Spencer W. Kimball included chapters adapted from general conference discourses. One of these discussed young Indian children adopted into white families whose skin lightened with time. Kimball’s account used this as evidence of fulfillment of a verse that said the Lamanites would someday become “a white and delightsome people” – execpt that is not doctrinal. In the early 1980s the Church published its most recent revision of The Book of Mormon, and the verse was changed to read “a pure and delightsome people,” negating the premise altogether.

But that did not keep other false doctrines that had grown from that verse from contiuing, such as black people would be white in the resurrection, which I first heard from colleagues in the MTC – again, completely non-doctrinal.

How can you know there are multiple gods? If you believe in multiple gods, how can you trust in God’s omnipotence? These are things you need to consider if you choose to continue believing what you do. You are likely to be taught many things about Catholicism, and we will gladly and honestly tell you if they are right or wrong. I know for example that growing up as a Mormon I was told that Catholics do not believe in revelation (false), worship idols (false), and that believe confession without repentance brings forgiveness (false).

The only other thing I feel comfortable suggesting is that you consider the significance of Mary carrying Jesus in her womb in light of the LDS definition of a temple: Is a temple of God only the temple when the Lord is literally inside it, or does it remain a temple even when the Lord is not literally present within it?
 
Okay Croso, if you’re going to go from being a kid to being an adult, you have to accept the fact that not everything your dad tells you is true. He may be a fine man, but he is not all-knowing or perfect.

You need to find things out for yourself - do your own reading and research.

I promise you, your dad is dead wrong about this. That is NOT LDS teaching. It may be fun to believe stuff like that, but it makes no sense and is not remotely Christian.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
Reminds me of staying up all night in the MTC arguing about whether or not Adam had a belly button.
 
So the Fablehaven books have been approved by the GAs, because they are sold there too
yes but these books are religious you are trying to argue your point with famous bestsellers who are approved by organizations who like it. i can guarantee you that the General Authorities of the LDS Church has approved those books to be true they may not be added as doctrine because in my guess it goes really deep and complicated in the Gospel to be taught in the Churchs’ wards or stakes. LDS members who really want to learn more go and buy books there to have a better understanding i know you may believe those books or our religion for that matter is false but i believe its true and thats that.
 
That is exactly where most LDS members get the impressions of doctrine that are actually not Doctrinal. In case I need a little credibility with you, Croso, I am the author of the story at this link: lds.org/new-era/1990/05/the-man-who-counted-stars?lang=eng I hold no animosity against the Church, though I occasionally get impatient and militantly defensive with members who I do not believe are being on the level.

Now that you claim you are 14, I cannot try to persuade you to believe what I do. I can share my beliefs with you and why. I can point out when some things you have been taught are inconsistent with your church’s doctrine, but I would be just as out of line to argue Catholic points with you as I would be with my own nephews, or my non-Catholic grandkids.

I can understand where you got this idea of married spirit couples in pre-mortal life, as “Saturday’s Warrior” was a big deal during my peak involvement in the Church. While I wouldn’t call it doctrine, I would call it authoritative speculation about the time I served my mission that we were organized into families in pre-mortal life, and that facilitated the Grand Council. However, I know nothing authoritative on that.

Let me address a point showing how self-contradictory some of the arguments you have been taught are from a strictly LDS perspective:

If we are created as spirits in pairs, wouldn’t that mean that the additional females would only fracture existing bonds, if reassigned for polygamous relationships?

As a Mormon your standard of what is valid doctrine is the Book of Mormon,as Joseph Smith called it “The most correct of all books”. Jacob Chapter 2 makes it very clear that the God you are taught to believe in despises polygamy. He clearly states that he only commands it when he has a shortage of covenant people (“to raise up seed”) which is the exception, not the rule. Many members in their speculation treat the idea of polygamy as the rule, and the current ban on it the exception, and this is inconsistent with the book that is the keystone of your religion. It affirms monogamy as the rule and polygamy as the exception. Learn that and you will understand more about your religion than most LDS youth your age ever get a grip on.

If God could allow any spirits (male or female) who sinned against a perfect knowledge and rebelled against him in heaven to remain there, why would transgressing without knowledge of good and evil at all justify expulsion from Paradise? Such a God has a double standard. If one thrid of the spirits rebelled, and one-third were cast out, who did God expel in place of the women he allowed to remain.

Spirits created in pairs – female spirits that rebelled not expelled from heaven – all of these are false doctrines within Mormonism. I still do not doubt that books labelled as LDS classics might contain these concepts. The Deseret Bookstore chain sells many products that are not official church publications. Even Deseret Books, the publisher, publishes few things with the offical stamp of LDS doctrine – even books by the general authorities.

As an example of how even books by GAs can be non-doctrinal, the book “Faith Precedes the Miracle” by Spencer W. Kimball included chapters adapted from general conference discourses. One of these discussed young Indian children adopted into white families whose skin lightened with time. Kimball’s account used this as evidence of fulfillment of a verse that said the Lamanites would someday become “a white and delightsome people” – execpt that is not doctrinal. In the early 1980s the Church published its most recent revision of The Book of Mormon, and the verse was changed to read “a pure and delightsome people,” negating the premise altogether.

But that did not keep other false doctrines that had grown from that verse from contiuing, such as black people would be white in the resurrection, which I first heard from colleagues in the MTC – again, completely non-doctrinal.

How can you know there are multiple gods? If you believe in multiple gods, how can you trust in God’s omnipotence? These are things you need to consider if you choose to continue believing what you do. You are likely to be taught many things about Catholicism, and we will gladly and honestly tell you if they are right or wrong. I know for example that growing up as a Mormon I was told that Catholics do not believe in revelation (false), worship idols (false), and that believe confession without repentance brings forgiveness (false).

The only other thing I feel comfortable suggesting is that you consider the significance of Mary carrying Jesus in her womb in light of the LDS definition of a temple: Is a temple of God only the temple when the Lord is literally inside it, or does it remain a temple even when the Lord is not literally present within it?
Well its still the temple even when the Lord is not present but we never know when he is present unless he revealed himself to us, and if Heavenly Father says we can become like and become gods ourselves and do what he does then wouldn’t that lead us to believe there are countless other gods before Him and after Him? and the verse is correct from Jacob but it also says in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Convents that you cannot enter the Kingdom of God without a spouse. So God may not have mentioned the pre-moral existence and what happened in the Book of Mormon but through modern revelation by our prophets we are able to know.
 
Well its still the temple even when the Lord is not present but we never know when he is present unless he revealed himself to us, and if Heavenly Father says we can become like and become gods ourselves and do what he does then wouldn’t that lead us to believe there are countless other gods before Him and after Him? and the verse is correct from Jacob but it also says in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Convents that you cannot enter the Kingdom of God without a spouse. So God may not have mentioned the pre-moral existence and what happened in the Book of Mormon but through modern revelation by our prophets we are able to know.
You actually misinterpret the Doctrine and Covenants, or have been taught to. It is very clear that even people who never marry can enter the Celestial Kingdom, but they are as angels (as LDS perceive them) not as gods.You religion teaches that you can still dwell in the presence of God if not maried, but will not have eternal increase.

If God said we would become like gods there may be something to that, but that statement assumes facts not in evidence. When Jesus teaches we should be like Him and do His works, He means we should love that much, we should give ourselves over to the father that completely. It is that simple. Understanding the Bible in context as it is written is not hard if we do not deicde what we expect it to teach first.

If you wish to discuss religion with Catholics, you should recognize that talking about becoming like God the Father makes no sense in Catholiicism. God the Father has no body except the Body of Christ, as the Book of Ether in your Book of Mormon describes. While you are taught this passage means God has a physical body, the actual text does not say that. It says that God showed the Brother of Jared the form of the body He would take upon himself, not the body he already had.While we will be resurrected like Jesus, we will never be like God, we will share in the nature of His internal relationship in Trinity, the total communion He shares with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. We are created in God’s image partly because we were created in the form God would take upon himself.

We recognize no other gods. God is self-existent. He created everything out of nothing. Otherwise he would depend on other things, and everything depends on him instead. We were not created until our conception, though God knew he would create us and who we would be.

At least you do recognize that your Book of Mormon specifies that plural marriage is intended only as a practice when necessary. God, according to the Book of Mormon, only tolerates it and prefers not requiring it (That is not me saying that. That is Jacob Chapter 2.) I point this out because you appear to have been taught that it is an essential practice, and perhaps have family members who anticipate its being restored again someday, as many LDS I have known do. They often make the mistake of discussing – fantasizing – as couples about who additional wives might be when that happens. This is dangerous because it is already a step toward adultery, as well as being contradictory to both the Official Proclamation that ended polygamy and the Book of Mormon teaching about it.

Now, back to the Temple. The Temple is where the Lord dwells. The Lord dwelt in Mary’s womb for nine months, correct? Did she stop being a Temple of God because Jesus was born? CAn anything about a temple be impure, filthy,or tolerant of sin, whether Jesus is actually present or not? Wouldn’t that make her sacred beyond any person but Christ Himself for the rest of her life?
 
You actually misinterpret the Doctrine and Covenants, or have been taught to. It is very clear that even people who never marry can enter the Celestial Kingdom, but they are as angels (as LDS perceive them) not as gods.You religion teaches that you can still dwell in the presence of God if not maried, but will not have eternal increase.

If God said we would become like gods there may be something to that, but that statement assumes facts not in evidence. When Jesus teaches we should be like Him and do His works, He means we should love that much, we should give ourselves over to the father that completely. It is that simple. Understanding the Bible in context as it is written is not hard if we do not deicde what we expect it to teach first.

If you wish to discuss religion with Catholics, you should recognize that talking about becoming like God the Father makes no sense in Catholiicism. God the Father has no body except the Body of Christ, as the Book of Ether in your Book of Mormon describes. While you are taught this passage means God has a physical body, the actual text does not say that. It says that God showed the Brother of Jared the form of the body He would take upon himself, not the body he already had.While we will be resurrected like Jesus, we will never be like God, we will share in the nature of His internal relationship in Trinity, the total communion He shares with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. We are created in God’s image partly because we were created in the form God would take upon himself.

We recognize no other gods. God is self-existent. He created everything out of nothing. Otherwise he would depend on other things, and everything depends on him instead. We were not created until our conception, though God knew he would create us and who we would be.

At least you do recognize that your Book of Mormon specifies that plural marriage is intended only as a practice when necessary. God, according to the Book of Mormon, only tolerates it and prefers not requiring it (That is not me saying that. That is Jacob Chapter
i have noticed that there is huge differences between Catholics and Mormons. actually there is huge differences between what the world consider “mainstream Christianity” and Mormons. so im just going to tell you all at once what we believe in and speculate on completely(its better to hear this from a Mormon’s point of view so you get your facts right). Note: some of this information is not from the scriptures is from the books Life Everlasting and The Life Before
First, God was once a mortal like us and went through the trials and tests from his god. so we believe our religion is established throughout other planets. anyway he did the same things we Mormons do. got baptized, got sealed to his wife, went through the temple. then after he was resurrected by his god and was exalted by his god to a god. Then he begot spirit children in the pre-existence, first one being Jesus, there we matured to a adult spirit form. then he called together His children and told them the Plan of Salvation and what we would have to do. go to Earth and receive a body and go through our mortal probation, but we had to have a Savior to atoned for our sins. so Jesus came up and said, “Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever” then Lucifer came and said, " Behold, her am I, send me, I will be thy Son, and i will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it, wherefore give me thine honor." you can find those verses in the Pearl of Great Price in Moses chapter 6. God chose Jesus. Lucifer become angry and rebelled against God with hate and anger(note Lucifer was not always Satan he was an angel before) and he rose up a rebellion and 1/3 of the human family sided with him and thus began the war in heaven. So God banished him and the 1/3 but allowed he women to stay. then Lucifer became Satan. so the rest of Human family accepted God’s plan and that’s how it started.
Second, So here we are on Earth, now we are taught that we can return to live with our Heavenly Father and become like him through the teachings of the Gospel. first you must be baptized, second(boys) receive the Priesthood then when your nineteen you go through the temple then if you want go on a mission. then come back and get sealed to a woman you love and have children(i don’t know if that’s required) raise them in Gospel then after you die when you die and go to Spirit World. there are two sides in the Spirit World Spirit Paradise where the righteous of the Earth go( Mormons who have been faithful) and Spirit Prison where the rest of world go who have not had a fair opportunity to accept or reject the Gospel(Mormon Gospel). then we wait there until the Resurrection and the Coming of Jesus. When Jesus comes all will be resurrected. the people of Spirit Paradise will be resurrected first and live on the Earth with Christ for a thousand years. after the rest of the world will be resurrected. then there will be Judgment from God. you will be judged according to what you did on Earth. then you will be sent to your kingdom: there are three kingdoms in heaven Telestial Kingdom( the lowest kingdom) that is where most of the world will go, Terrestrial Kingdom( middle kingdom where people who were in the LDS Church but were not as faithful as they should have been.) Celestial Kingdom (the highest kingdom where God and Jesus lives that is where faithful LDS members, valiant in their testimonies in Jesus, and did the requirements on Earth will go and become like our Heavenly Father, gods. so we can begot spirit children and organize worlds
 
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