LDS: What do you know about your Heavenly Mother? Would you like to know more?

[flyonthewall]

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Originally Posted by lax16
So God had spirit children with heavenly mother and had Jesus with Mary?

Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are the parents of all our spirits. Heavenly Father is the Father of the mortal Jesus and Mary was His earthly mother.

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Are these his wives or what type of relationship does God have/had with these women?

There is a “marriage” relationship between Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. Heavenly Father is still God to Mary.

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If Jesus and lucifer are brothers, who is lucifer’s mother?

Heavenly Mother.

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Are we brothers and sisters of Jesus and lucifer?

Spirit brothers and sisters.

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Please cite scriptural sources for reference.

Fly - I’ve re-posted our original question/answer exchange because the scriptures you’ve provided do not address these questions specifically.
I am asking for references relating to these questions because this is what sets the Mormons apart from other Christian denominations.
To say we are all sons and daughters of God is oversimplying a very unique LDS teaching.

SteveVH:

We all believe that we are sons and daughters of God. How do Psalms, Acts and Hebrews give any indication that we have a heaveny mother? I guess I’m just wondering why you would use those Scriptural references.

I cited A Proclaimation to the World as evidence of a Heavenly Mother. You will not find it in the scriptures as it is a latter-day revelation.
The Proclaimation is as good as scripture for us. It is a “Thus saith the Lord” statement from the Prophet and Apostles in these latter days.

I cited all the other scriptures as evidence that we are all spiritual brothers and sisters.

The reference to the Book of Abraham shows the Divine Council before the foundation of the world where the noble and great of His spirit children were in attendance. Jesus and Lucifer were there as one of the children of the Father.
That makes Lucifer and Jesus spirit children of the Father…brothers if you will.
However, Lucifer rebelled and was cast out, disinherited so to speak, along with the third of the spirit children that sided with him in the war in heaven.

 

[SteveVH]

I cited A Proclaimation to the World as evidence of a Heavenly Mother. You will not find it in the scriptures as it is a latter-day revelation.
The Proclaimation is as good as scripture for us. It is a “Thus saith the Lord” statement from the Prophet and Apostles in these latter days.

I didn’t think it was in the Scriptures. In fact there is absolutely not a hint of “Heavenly Mother” in the Bible. Could she be so unimportant that she is not worth mentioning? The Bible covers salvation history from “the beginning” to “the end”. Not a mention of her. The wife of God our Father in heaven, our Divine Mother. Not a mention of her. Very strange.

I cited all the other scriptures as evidence that we are all spiritual brothers and sisters.

I’m not certain as to what this has to do with a “Heavenly Mother”.

The reference to the Book of Abraham shows the Divine Council before the foundation of the world where the noble and great of His spirit children were in attendance. Jesus and Lucifer were there as one of the children of the Father.
That makes Lucifer and Jesus spirit children of the Father…brothers if you will.
However, Lucifer rebelled and was cast out, disinherited so to speak, along with the third of the spirit children that sided with him in the war in heaven.

Jesus was God, the Creator. Lucifer was an angel, a creation. To place them in any class of equality, before the rebellion or after, is simply outrageous. Again, however, this does not seem to mention a “Heavenly Mother” so I’m not sure what point you are trying to make with this quote.

 

[flyonthewall]

I didn’t think it was in the Scriptures. In fact there is absolutely not a hint of “Heavenly Mother” in the Bible. Could she be so unimportant that she is not worth mentioning? The Bible covers salvation history from “the beginning” to “the end”. Not a mention of her. The wife of God our Father in heaven, our Divine Mother. Not a mention of her. Very strange.

I’m not certain as to what this has to do with a “Heavenly Mother”.

Jesus was God, the Creator. Lucifer was an angel, a creation. To place them in any class of equality, before the rebellion or after, is simply outrageous. Again, however, this does not seem to mention a “Heavenly Mother” so I’m not sure what point you are trying to make with this quote.

There were a series of questions that I was responding to. The Heavenly Mother question was only one.

I can only speculate as to why Heavenly Mother is not mentioned in the Bible
Perhaps for the same reason the 3 members of the Godhead were not mentioned in the OT.

 

[SteveVH]

There were a series of questions that I was responding to. The Heavenly Mother question was only one.

Sorry, I guess I missed that.

I can only speculate as to why Heavenly Mother is not mentioned in the Bible. Perhaps for the same reason the 3 members of the Godhead were not mentioned in the OT.

Oh, but they are. Even if they weren’t, why would you leave out the New Testament in your analogy. Understanding the story of salvation history requires both the Old and New testaments. The New Testament is hidden in the Old, and the Old Testament is revealed in the New.

I’m off to bed. Have a peaceful night, Fly.

 

[flyonthewall]

Sorry, I guess I missed that.

Oh, but they are. Even if they weren’t, why would you leave out the New Testament in your analogy. Understanding the story of salvation history requires both the Old and New testaments. The New Testament is hidden in the Old, and the Old Testament is revealed in the New.

I’m off to bed. Have a peaceful night, Fly.

I can agree with you on that a bit. I can take the knowledge I have now, look back at the OT, and see things clearer than if I only had the OT.
You say the OT is revealed in the NT. Maybe Heavenly Mother will be revealed in the next testament, or during the milenial reign, or whenever the Lord decides to.

I am off to bed also… pleasant dreams.

 

[Peter_John]

A Proclaimation to the World is very clear that we all are sons and daughters of a Heaveny Father and Heavenly Mother.
Scriptures that tell us we are sons and daughters of God:
Psalms 82:6
Acts 17:29
Hebrews 12:9
Moses 1:13(LDS scripture)

Abraham 3:22-28(LDS scripture) describes the Divine council of all the children of God, and how Lucifer was one that rebelled and was cast out.

First we are being informed in another thread that it is no longer an LDS teaching that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.

I do not see a reference to a Heavenly Mother in Psalms 82:6
The Acts refernce also does not mention a Heavenly Mother. The “offspring” refers to those who have been taken intoi the covenant through baptism.

Similar for Hebrews.

Our Heavenly Mother, the Mother of Our Lord, the Mother of the Creator Incarnate is referred to as Wisdom often in the Old Testament.

Mormons think of their own bodies as temples of their spirits, and of Jesus body as the Temple of the Creator. What does that say of Mary’s body while she carried Him? Did He cease to be God, or was her body the Holiest of Holies?

 

[flyonthewall]

First we are being informed in another thread that it is no longer an LDS teaching that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.

I do not see a reference to a Heavenly Mother in Psalms 82:6
The Acts refernce also does not mention a Heavenly Mother. The “offspring” refers to those who have been taken intoi the covenant through baptism.

Similar for Hebrews.

Our Heavenly Mother, the Mother of Our Lord, the Mother of the Creator Incarnate is referred to as Wisdom often in the Old Testament.

Mormons think of their own bodies as temples of their spirits, and of Jesus body as the Temple of the Creator. What does that say of Mary’s body while she carried Him? Did He cease to be God, or was her body the Holiest of Holies?

See post #83
Jesus and Lucifer being brothers is not something we emphasize as it is incomplete, and like many critics do, is taken out of context. Remember that Lucifer rebelled and was cast out, cut off. He has no place in heaven.

Mary was highly favored of the Lord, and she is blessed among women to be selected for her role as the mother of the mortal Christ.

 

[BelieveinGod]

The LDS concept of Heavenly Mother has nothing to do with the Blessed Virgin Mary. Heavenly Mother in Mormonism refers to God the Father’s wife (or wives according to Mormons who believe God the Father is a polygamist). She is a corporeal entity just as God the Father is (in Mormonism), and the justification for her existence is a conclusion which naturally follows from two Mormon beliefs: (1) that God the Father was once a mortal human being who was exalted to deity, and (2) that an eternal marriage is a prerequisite for exaltation.

We do NOT believe that God the Father is a polygamist. The FLDS and other branches believe that

 

[BelieveinGod]

There were a series of questions that I was responding to. The Heavenly Mother question was only one.

I can only speculate as to why Heavenly Mother is not mentioned in the Bible
Perhaps for the same reason the 3 members of the Godhead were not mentioned in the OT.

I think the three members of the Godhead is the trinity so yes, it’s in the Bible.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I can only speculate as to why Heavenly Mother is not mentioned in the Bible
Perhaps for the same reason the 3 members of the Godhead were not mentioned in the OT.

A belief in things that have not been revealed is a major problem.

 

[Peter_John]

See post #83
Jesus and Lucifer being brothers is not something we emphasize as it is incomplete, and like many critics do, is taken out of context. Remember that Lucifer rebelled and was cast out, cut off. He has no place in heaven.

It was not a de-emphaisized teaching 30 years ago.

Mary was highly favored of the Lord, and she is blessed among women to be selected for her role as the mother of the mortal Christ.

That is a safe answer. Does her carrying the Creator incarnate not mean that her body was a Temple of the Lord specifically?

After Jesus ascended to heaven, of all the disciples, who knew Jesus best? Who still carried some share of his physical being?

 

[flyonthewall]

It was not a de-emphaisized teaching 30 years ago.

It was never a focused teaching nor was it ever emphasized. It was simply part of the story.

That is a safe answer. Does her carrying the Creator incarnate not mean that her body was a Temple of the Lord specifically?

In the same sense that my mother’s body was my temple while I was developing within her. The implication, of course, is that that was a temporary situation. Once Jesus was born, He was no longer inside her.
I believe my body is a temple, where the Spirit of the Lord may dwell. How does that differ?

After Jesus ascended to heaven, of all the disciples, who knew Jesus best? Who still carried some share of his physical being?

Are you talking about DNA? Genetic traits? I am not sure what you are referring to by “carried some share of his physical being?”

 

[Peter_John]

It was never a focused teaching nor was it ever emphasized. It was simply part of the story.

Then you and I have to disagree on the definition of “emphasized”. When lessons in Sunday School, Priesthood meetings, and talks in Sacrament meetings present it in the framework that because Satan and all of his evil spirits were our brehtren in the preexistence, and they remember what happened while we don’t, this accentuates how powerfully they can tempt us, I call that emphasis.

In the same sense that my mother’s body was my temple while I was developing within her. The implication, of course, is that that was a temporary situation. Once Jesus was born, He was no longer inside her.
I believe my body is a temple, where the Spirit of the Lord may dwell. How does that differ?

How it differs iis in the difference between who we are and who Jesus is. Jesus is the literal incarnation of the Creator – I know Mormons believe that. Jesus affirmed the sanctity of the Temple at Jerusalem even when He was not physically occupying it. Do you consider the Salt Lake Temple any less a temple when the Lord is not physically present within it? Mary literally served as a Temple of God, and as such had to remain so.

Are you talking about DNA? Genetic traits? I am not sure what you are referring to by “carried some share of his physical being?”

I am talking about His body. If you want to bring DNA into it, the belief that God the Father has DNA is one thing that separates Mormons from general Christianity. In Mormon theology (*Jesus the *Christ by James E. Talmage) half of the genetic material that made up Christ’s body came directly from God the Father’s body. Even so, at least half of it came from Mary.

Christians believing in the Trinity do not believe that God the Father has a body. In scientific terms, all genetic material composing Jesus’s body had to come from Mary.
If we want to get a little deeper into the scientific aspect of it, recent scientific studies have found that babies in the womb produce their own antibodies which pass through the placenta to the mother. The mother carries this genetic material unique to her child for decades, and perhaps the rest of her life. The children a woman carries continue protecting her after the child is born.

Mary was a Temple of God, and remained so. Furthermore, Jesus specifically held her up as our preeminent example of compliance with Divine will.

 

[SteveVH]

I can agree with you on that a bit. I can take the knowledge I have now, look back at the OT, and see things clearer than if I only had the OT.
You say the OT is revealed in the NT. Maybe Heavenly Mother will be revealed in the next testament, or during the milenial reign, or whenever the Lord decides to.

I am off to bed also… pleasant dreams.

Maybe, if there was a “next testament”. This will never be, however, as Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of all revelation. There is nothing more to be revealed therefore no need for a “next testament”. Do you believe that Jesus is just one piece of the puzzle or is He the completed work?

 

[ADouglass]

I discovered Mary while I was mormon and was told by a Catholic about her. Later I learned how through her can find the truth, which is in its fullness in the Catholic Church alone. The first Catholic prayer I memorized after accepting the Catholic faith is the Hail Mary, btw. Also, a small miracle occurred in my life which I can only explain in reference to Christ and Mary.

+Hail Mary, full of grace.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen+

 

[flyonthewall]

Then you and I have to disagree on the definition of “emphasized”. When lessons in Sunday School, Priesthood meetings, and talks in Sacrament meetings present it in the framework that because Satan and all of his evil spirits were our brehtren in the preexistence, and they remember what happened while we don’t, this accentuates how powerfully they can tempt us, I call that emphasis.

Okay, you call it emphasis, I call it part of the story. Even with what you have stated above the emphasis was not that Jesus and Satan were “brothers”, but Satan and his followers can tempt us without a veil over their memories.

How it differs iis in the difference between who we are and who Jesus is. Jesus is the literal incarnation of the Creator – I know Mormons believe that. Jesus affirmed the sanctity of the Temple at Jerusalem even when He was not physically occupying it. Do you consider the Salt Lake Temple any less a temple when the Lord is not physically present within it? Mary literally served as a Temple of God, and as such had to remain so.

Yes we believe Jesus to be the Creator. As you say, Mary literally served as a Temple of God, and she had the extra calling of being His mortal mother, but we all can be a temple of God. When the Holy Ghost dwells within us, God dwells within us, yet we are not looked upon as Heavenly Father or Mother.

I am talking about His body. If you want to bring DNA into it, the belief that God the Father has DNA is one thing that separates Mormons from general Christianity. In Mormon theology (*Jesus the *Christ by James E. Talmage) half of the genetic material that made up Christ’s body came directly from God the Father’s body. Even so, at least half of it came from Mary.

I didn’t want to bring anything into it, I simply requested clarification of what you were referring to.

Christians believing in the Trinity do not believe that God the Father has a body. In scientific terms, all genetic material composing Jesus’s body had to come from Mary.
If we want to get a little deeper into the scientific aspect of it, recent scientific studies have found that babies in the womb produce their own antibodies which pass through the placenta to the mother. The mother carries this genetic material unique to her child for decades, and perhaps the rest of her life. The children a woman carries continue protecting her after the child is born.

Interesting. It seems the scientific part would not apply in this case as all the physical material Jesus was made of came only from Mary. So, I’m not sure how Mary’s pregnancy offered any physical difference than before her pregnancy.

Mary was a Temple of God, and remained so. Furthermore, Jesus specifically held her up as our preeminent example of compliance with Divine will.

Maybe I have overlooked something, where is it that Jesus holds Mary up as our preeminent example of compliance with Divine will?

 

[Peter_John]

I can agree with you on that a bit. I can take the knowledge I have now, look back at the OT, and see things clearer than if I only had the OT.
You say the OT is revealed in the NT. Maybe Heavenly Mother will be revealed in the next testament, or during the milenial reign, or whenever the Lord decides to.

I am off to bed also… pleasant dreams.

Mary as Heavenly Mother is thoroughly revealed in the Old Testament. The problem is that those books most clear about it are not considered inspired scripture by Mormons.

The Book that does it the most is specifically noted as not being inspired scripture in the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. The “Song of Songs” is kind of God’s dirty mind test. You have to be able to perceive beyond what it seems to be about in order to get the kind of communion it really expresses.

Her eternal role is bearing her Son to the world. She presents him to us in a feeeding trough.

 

[Peter_John]

Okay, you call it emphasis, I call it part of the story. Even with what you have stated above the emphasis was not that Jesus and Satan were “brothers”, but Satan and his followers can tempt us without a veil over their memories.

and their memories could be so dangerous because of their close relationship to us. The Church only began backing off on this teaching after it became a campaign issue during the last election.

Yes we believe Jesus to be the Creator. As you say, Mary literally served as a Temple of God, and she had the extra calling of being His mortal mother, but we all can be a temple of God.
.

Not in the same way. Mary was specifically created to shape and carry the physical body of the Creator himself

When the Holy Ghost dwells within us, God dwells within us, yet we are not looked upon as Heavenly Father or Mother…

Because we are not literally carrying the very being, incarnate, who spoke with Moses, and who covenanted with Abraham. That is what Mary did. She was as real a Temple as His physical body was, as real as the Temple of Jerusalem, and He clearly expected the Temple in Jerusalem to be so recognized even when He was not physically present in it.

We are not literally the one carries Christ to the whole world – which is her eternal mission. We have the ability to ask Him anything in prayer, but not the position to impose upon Him to change His plans (and your Doctrine and Covenants supports using the wedding feast at Cana as a model for Mary’s eternal relationship to Christ)

I didn’t want to bring anything into it, I simply requested clarification of what you were referring to.

Interesting. It seems the scientific part would not apply in this case as all the physical material Jesus was made of came only from Mary. So, I’m not sure how Mary’s pregnancy offered any physical difference than before her pregnancy…

Than how much more that says of Her close relationship to him. Kind of makes you think that if He was completely pure, Mary would also have to be. The Lord does not dwell in unclean Temples, and He dwelt in her for nine months.

 

[flyonthewall]

Maybe, if there was a “next testament”. This will never be, however, as Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of all revelation. There is nothing more to be revealed therefore no need for a “next testament”. Do you believe that Jesus is just one piece of the puzzle or is He the completed work?

I do not believe everything has been revealed.
What of Jesus’ teachings would have instructed Noah to build an ark, or how to build one?
What of Jesus’ teachings would have told Lot to leave Sodom?
What of Jesus’ teachings would have instructed Moses on how to lead children of Israel out of Egypt?
Throughout the history of the world, different things have been revealed in different circumstances, for different people.
The need for revelation never ceases.
Jesus leads His church through revelation, current revelation, that is what makes it a living, breathing church.
Jesus’ work of the atonement may have been complete, but His instructions to His church are never complete.
It reminds me of a commercial, where a Footbal announcer announces that the referees were walking off the field because the players already knew how to play the game so there is no need for referees.
I simply cannot agree with the statement that “there is nothing more to be revealed”.

 

[flyonthewall]

and their memories could be so dangerous because of their close relationship to us. The Church only began backing off on this teaching after it became a campaign issue during the last election.

That may be your perception, but again, the emphasis was not on “Jesus and Satan were brothers”.
If you notice, it would not have even come up had a critic not brought it up in the first place. It was the critic that put emphasis on it not us, and notice that the critic mentioned only one part and not the whole concept. Why it even came up in a political race is beyond me…although it does speak to his character.

Not in the same way. Mary was specifically created to shape and carry the physical body of the Creator himself
Because we are not literally carrying the very being, incarnate, who spoke with Moses, and who covenanted with Abraham. That is what Mary did. She was as real a Temple as His physical body was, as real as the Temple of Jerusalem, and He clearly expected the Temple in Jerusalem to be so recognized even when He was not physically present in it.

Well that begs the question of why it is different. The body of Jesus was nothing special as it was comprised of material only from Mary…completely human. It is only the spirit within that makes any difference at all. But then the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same substance, so what is the difference between the mortal infant Jesus developing within Mary and the Holy Spirit dwelling within us? Same substance…am I missing something?

We are not literally the one carries Christ to the whole world – which is her eternal mission. We have the ability to ask Him anything in prayer, but not the position to impose upon Him to change His plans (and your Doctrine and Covenants supports using the wedding feast at Cana as a model for Mary’s eternal relationship to Christ)
Than how much more that says of Her close relationship to him. Kind of makes you think that if He was completely pure, Mary would also have to be. The Lord does not dwell in unclean Temples, and He dwelt in her for nine months.

Though I believe there is a special relationship between mother and child, which section in the D&C are you referring to?
Jesus’ spirit was pure, not His body. His body had weaknesses and imperfections just as anyone else has - were it not so, He would not have been human. A mother carrying a child is not unique to Mary, there have been countless women that have done it. Again, it is His spirit that is the divine part, and because He is of one substance as the Father and Holy Spirit, why is the Holy Spirit dwelling within us any different?