LDS: Why try to convert Catholics, what do we lack for salvation?

[sablouwho]

I just posted the following. Salvation in Mormonism is entirely different from Catholicism and Protestantism

Hi Anna (is your username after the character of the same name in the movie Notting Hill?)

Um, I see you were quoting me and then re-posting about salvation in LDS theology. However I am unclear as to how your post relates to mine? If you wouldn’t mind clarifying I’d appreciate it.

thanks!

 

[paul_c]

Not to mention, “Missionaries are leading people to believe in Christ, in His atonement, in the blessings of the gift of the Holy Ghost and the blessings of repentance”, which only underscores the OP question. Without answering it.

I’ve read through a lot of LDS writings over the last week or so. I find it very curious. They seem to drive the most of the same basic life values that Catholics believe. Love God and Neighbor, the sanctity of marriage, etc. They have modified the Catholic teachings on baptism (you get baptized at age 8), and the eucharist (bread and WATER). The Church structure is very, very structured and hierarchical. All males seem to become deacons at age 12 and priests at age 14. Marriage seems to be necessary to get to the highest levels of heaven and if I read it right, the highest level (becoming gods) is only available to men who have had leadership roles in the LDS. According to Mormon teaching, it seems that the celibate St. Paul would not have attained to the highest level of heaven. Not sure how they reconcile the fact that Jesus was also celibate. God has a body of flesh and bone, but not blood so as to be consistent with the scriptural statement that God is not flesh and blood.

Everything that they believe is tied heavily to the credibility of Joseph Smith and also to a worldwide Apostacy in the Catholic church that he preached. If you don’t believe both, the entire LSD teaching quickly falls apart.

As far as I can tell, Catholics do everything Mormans proscribe to get into heaven, except that we don’t believe that marriage is a requirement and that consistent with scripture, we don’t believe that there are marriages in heaven. And I’ wouldn’t be shocked if they also claimed that some secret temple ordinance is also required. Members of the LDS. am I missing anything else?

 

[ParkerD]

In other words, yes, It’s a “milk-before-meat” thing. They don’t want to scare off potential converts, so they keep the scary, repugnant LDS doctrines from investigators until (after baptism) they have thoroughly taken over their lives, then they slowly reveal the rancid Mormon “meat”.

That’s how it was for me when the missionaries taught me, and that’s how it was when I was a missionary.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

Paul,

If that is how it was for you when you were taught, or how it was for you when you taught others, then it was out of bounds as far as I’m concerned. Not once as a missionary or as a member explaining doctrinal issues to non-members with questions, have I felt any issue about not sharing whatever could be explained outside of the temple in answer to their sincere questions. (But I taught Latin Americans in Los Angeles, and they were people of simple faith and simple ideals with love of family and love of God, and the few who joined did so with that simple faith in tact. If they went inactive, it was because they had difficulty getting to church due to work schedules or the like–not difficulty with the doctrine.)

 

[sablouwho]

Sablouwho,
I didn’t mean to imply that you did that. I was responding to your question to PaulDupre, in that he had said that missionaries “are taught to deny it to non-members” which was completely untrue–outright false. I had tried to explain what missionaries are taught to teach, in a way that leads a person toward spiritual knowledge.

I think you had a valid approach and a valid conversion experience, but I do think the teaching of the Apostle Paul (who was writing to members who had already had a conversion experience) is still important to every sincere follower of Christ.

Again, sorry to have not explained myself better. I love the story of your conversion.

Okay, thanks Parker for explaining this, I appreciate it and am sorry for being quick to draw conclusions. I am apparently very sensitive about my conversion and get defensive when I think it is being challenged.

 

[PaulDupre]

Sablouwho,
I didn’t mean to imply that you did that. I was responding to your question to PaulDupre, in that he had said that missionaries “are taught to deny it to non-members” which was completely untrue–outright false.

Check out this youtube video of LDS General Authority Robert Millet teaching LDS missionaries to deny doctrines and sidestep questions that might be embarrassing to the LDS cult.

IOW, say anything necessary to suck gullible people into the Mormon cult.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

 

[Annie_B]

So why ARE you here?

To learn more about what and why other peope believe what they do Why are you here?
Annie

 

[Annie_B]

Of course you’re here to convert, albeit by planting seeds and fellowshipping. There’s nothing wrong with that. Welcome!

I am sorry, but you are wrong. I am not here to convert (as I stated in my previous reply to the OP). Others might be, but I am not
Annie

 

[paul_c]

To learn more about what and why other peope believe what they do Why are you here?
Annie

I am hear to learn and also to teach the Catholic faith.

 

[ParkerD]

Check out this youtube video of LDS General Authority Robert Millet teaching LDS missionaries… .

I am supposing you realize that Robert Millet is a professor at BYU, not a General Authority, and has written books where he has talked about his many non-LDS friends including Catholic leaders, and what good people they are. My son enjoys his classes, and I have enjoyed reading one of his books about the importance of realizing that the gospel of Jesus Christ is not just about Mormonism and that much good is done among many faiths.

 

[sablouwho]

I am supposing you realize that Robert Millet is a professor at BYU, not a General Authority, and has written books where he has talked about his many non-LDS friends including Catholic leaders, and what good people they are. My son enjoys his classes, and I have enjoyed reading one of his books about the importance of realizing that the gospel of Jesus Christ is not just about Mormonism and that much good is done among many faiths.

Glad you mentioned this. I myself have heard Prof Millet talk in an LDS/Protestant academic setting. For a moment I was confused and thought that there were 2 Robert Millet’s being discussed.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Glad you mentioned this. I myself have heard Prof Millet talk in an LDS/Protestant academic setting. For a moment I was confused and thought that there were 2 Robert Millet’s being discussed.

ParkerD used exactly what Millett teaches in the speech that PaulDupre is referring to. “Answer the right question”, not what was asked.

PaulDupre’s didn’t put the link in his post. Here it is.

 

[zaffiroborant]

ParkerD used exactly what Millett teaches in the speech that PaulDupre is referring to. “Answer the right question”, not what was asked.

PaulDupre’s didn’t put the link in his post. Here it is.

Hey Rebecca the link has something different, and oddly enough the 2 sites I looked at for the video say this

“This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by BYU Department of Ancient Scripture.”

Oh wait 3rd times a charm, you can see it here for a while it’s not the whole thing though if I remember correctly.

 

[TheosisM]

Hey Rebecca the link has something different, and oddly enough the 2 sites I looked at for the video say this

“This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by BYU Department of Ancient Scripture.”

I watched the video fine from that link. It took awhile to load.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hey Rebecca the link has something different, and oddly enough the 2 sites I looked at for the video say this

“This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by BYU Department of Ancient Scripture.”

Yeah, the link I gave is only a very small portion of the entire speech.

 

[PaulDupre]

Check out this youtube video of LDS General Authority Robert Millet teaching LDS missionaries to deny doctrines and sidestep questions that might be embarrassing to the LDS cult.

IOW, say anything necessary to suck gullible people into the Mormon cult.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

Sorry the attachment didn’t stick…

Interesting that Millet’s overarching question is “was Joseph Smith called of God?”. Is that really the penultimate question facing the religious world today? Or is it “is the Watchtower God’s one and only mouthpiece on earth today?”. Or is it “is Reverend Sung Myung Moon really God come in the flesh?”.

Give me a break.

View this video ASAP…the LDS church is trying hard to squash access to this video.

 

[why_me]

I have studied not only Mormonism but also many of the other cults.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Mormonism is not a cult nor is it recognized as a cult by the US government or law enforcement agencies.

 

[why_me]

The lowest kingdom is one of servitude to the higher kingdoms. That doesn’t sound like a Catholic’s idea of heaven and that’s why I didn’t bring it up. Just trying to keep it simple.

The lowest kingdom is not one of servitude to the higher kingdoms. It is just a place where certain people go based on their life on earth. It is a kingdom of glory.

We believe that we are judged according to our works and then through the grace of God we are saved. However, we believe that we will reside for all of eternity in a degree of glory which best represents our life in mortality. “For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared.” (D&C 76:111) In Doctrine and Covenants section 76 we are instructed by the Lord, through revelation, what these degrees will be and who will inherit them.

The telestial kingdom will be a kingdom of glory for those who chose during their mortal probation to be dishonest, lie, steal, cheat, murder, and all other abominations. “These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.” (D&C 76:103) This will be their judgement and they will be resurrected with a telestial body.

The terrestrial kingdom is reserved for those who lived a good life, but were not valiant in their testimony of Jesus. They did not go the “extra mile” to be His disciple. “These are they who were honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.” (D&C 76:75-76) These people did not make evil choices, but rather failed to make the best choices and were satisfied with their own mediocre service to the Lord.

The highest degree of glory is the celestial kingdom. It is here that those who were valiant and did their best to serve God will live for eternity. We also believe that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. “In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees: And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood (meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage); And if he does not he cannot obtain it.” (D&C 131:1-3)

suite101.com/article.cfm/mormonism/68363

I believe that the above sounds correct. I see no slavery in the description.

 

[why_me]

So why ARE you here?

In reponse to this post about why mormons are here the answer is basically simple. Mormons are here to defend their faith. If they were here to convert and wandered into other sections of the forum, they would probably be shown the door. But on this section of the forum, mormons are constantly defending and explaining their belief system.

 

[why_me]

That is exactly what they believe, though they are taught to deny it to non-members.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

Not true. In fact the information is in the priesthood/relief society manual which is being discussed in meetings. And investigators are welcome to attend. Nothing is hidden.

 

[why_me]

In other words, yes, It’s a “milk-before-meat” thing. They don’t want to scare off potential converts, so they keep the scary, repugnant LDS doctrines from investigators until (after baptism) they have thoroughly taken over their lives, then they slowly reveal the rancid Mormon “meat”.

That’s how it was for me when the missionaries taught me, and that’s how it was when I was a missionary.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

Not true: a nonmember is more than welcome to attend priesthood or relief society and if so, they would have heard this lesson. Nice try Paul in spreading your word.

chapter 2: God the Eternal Father

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith

Articles of Faith 1:1: “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.”10 Joseph Smith taught the following in April 1843, later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 130:22: “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. There is no other God in heaven but that God who has flesh and bones.”13 The Godhead is in perfect unity, and God the Father presides. “There is much said about God and the Godhead

This was studied not that long ago and it serves as an outline. Nothing is hidden.