LDS: Why try to convert Catholics, what do we lack for salvation?

[Anna_Scott]

Anna,
Yes.

I think a yes or no answer to a deep question requires context, which I tried to provide to you.

Yes–unhesitatingly, yes.

Thank you, ParkerD,

I couldn’t quite tell by your answer. Thanks for clarifying.

Anna

 

[SteveVH]

Astute observation. Just as Mormon Prophets are not speaking as Prophets, when they claim God revealed something to them, that is later seen as controversial.

Anna

uch: Yeah, and I get upset with cafeteria Catholics who pick and choose what they want and leave the rest. I’m glad I don’t have to put up with it from the leaders of my Church. We don’t have the problem because all that is to be revealed has been revealed in Jesus Christ. With the LDS it seems to me that this will be an ongoing problem and mounting evidence that contradicts the claim that it is revealed truth from God. God doesn’t change His mind. He is constant. He never changes.

 

[Javl]

I agree with the other posters who have cautioned you on the use of this term. No good can come of this.

Depending on what religious definition you use, the early Christians were also a cult!

Yes, I know that Christianity was called a cult in its early days. But, do you know the definition of a cult and why it is used to identify Mormonism today?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Annie_B]

I do not mean to be insulting or derogatory. If I came across as such, I apologize. But, regardless of what individual Catholics or Protestants may say or think, Mormonism does come under the religious definition of a cult.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I did not feel you were being insulting or derogatory Apparently “cult” is in the eye of the beholder, as I have heard that term used for the RCC and some “protestant” churches also. We all must choose the sources of our definitions:thumbsup:
Annie

 

[Annie_B]

When I was taking lessons with the LDS missionaries and the LDS Bishop, who was a good friend; the Bishop mentioned how Mormonism is called a cult.

Instead of refuting the idea, he asked, rhetorically, “Is being a cult a bad thing?” I didn’t know what to say at that time; but it did seem strange.

Just something to consider.

Anna

That is something to think about! Since many people can’t seem to agree on what a cult is, then I would say that is a very good question. I probably would have asked him what his definition of a cult was so that I could understand his rhetorical question better.

From Merriam-Webster online, this is the definition of a cult (or rather definitions). According to #1, #2, #3 and #5 BOTH the LDS and RCC are/ could be considered cults

Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: \ˈkəlt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate — more at wheel
Date: 1617

1 : formal religious veneration : worship
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

— cul·tic \ˈkəl-tik\ adjective

— cult·ish -tish\ adjective

— cult·ish·ly -lē\ adverb

— cult·ish·ness -nəs\ noun

— cult·ism \ˈkəl-ˌti-zəm\ noun

— cult·ist \ˈkəl-tist\ noun

— cult·like -ˌlīk\ adjective

 

[Javl]

That is something to think about! Since many people can’t seem to agree on what a cult is, then I would say that is a very good question. I probably would have asked him what his definition of a cult was so that I could understand his rhetorical question better.

From Merriam-Webster online, this is the definition of a cult (or rather definitions). According to #1, #2, #3 and #5 BOTH the LDS and RCC are/ could be considered cults

Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: \ˈkəlt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate — more at wheel
Date: 1617

1 : formal religious veneration : worship
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

— cul·tic \ˈkəl-tik\ adjective

— cult·ish -tish\ adjective

— cult·ish·ly -lē\ adverb

— cult·ish·ness -nəs\ noun

— cult·ism \ˈkəl-ˌti-zəm\ noun

— cult·ist \ˈkəl-tist\ noun

— cult·like -ˌlīk\ adjective

Mainline Christianity uses the religious definition ( #3 ) of a cult. The theology, doctrines, tenets, etc., of Mormonism do not follow that of the mailine Churches. Mormonism does not have a truly structured theology or creed. Also, mainline Christianity claims Jesus Christ as its founder, while Mormonism claims Joseph Smith as its founder ( #5a ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Annie_B]

Mainline Christianity uses the religious definition ( #3 ) of a cult. The theology, doctrines, tenets, etc., of Mormonism do not follow that of the mailine Churches. Mormonism does not have a truly structured theology or creed.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I disagree with your statement, but that is ok. I am not here to change your mind or that of anyone else. I just found it interesting that there were several definitions of “cult” and that MANY churches fall into those definitions. Again, “cult” is in the eye of the beholder. As far as the importance of following the beliefs of “mainline churches”, that is not what truly counts. What counts is following Christ. And, as a pre-emptive strike for those who will say that the LDS church does not follow Christ, I will NOT get drawn into that argument
Annie

 

[sablouwho]

Yes, I know that Christianity was called a cult in its early days.

Some would claim that it still is!

But, do you know the definition of a cult and why it is used to identify Mormonism today

In fact, yes, I am quite familiar with the issue, the definitions, etc.

 

[TheosisM]

I disagree with your statement, but that is ok. I am not here to change your mind or that of anyone else. I just found it interesting that there were several definitions of “cult” and that MANY churches fall into those definitions. Again, “cult” is in the eye of the beholder. As far as the importance of following the beliefs of “mainline churches”, that is not what truly counts. What counts is following Christ. And, as a pre-emptive strike for those who will say that the LDS church does not follow Christ, I will NOT get drawn into that argument
Annie

Don’t worry, I’m sure he’ll use the same argument and definitions when some of those same Protestants he’s associating Catholicism with in this instance also call Catholicism a cult (funny how some of those anti-Mormon websites by Evangelicals also have anti-Catholic pages. Of course they’re right about Mormons and wrong about Catholics according to some).

 

[Annie_B]

Don’t worry, I’m sure he’ll use the same argument and definitions when some of those same Protestants he’s associating Catholicism with in this instance also call Catholicism a cult (funny how some of those anti-Mormon websites by Evangelicals also have anti-Catholic pages. Of course they’re right about Mormons and wrong about Catholics according to some).

Like I said - MANY (if not all) churches fall into the cult category according to the definition(s) from the Merriam Webster dictionary. So, maybe that bishop was wise when he asked if it was a bad thing to be a cult
Annie

 

[TheosisM]

Like I said - MANY (if not all) churches fall into the cult category according to the definition(s) from the Merriam Webster dictionary. So, maybe that bishop was wise when he asked if it was a bad thing to be a cult
Annie

Very true. My only point is that Javl is trying to use “cult” in a derogatory sense, and be buddy-buddy with Protestants, when some of those same Protestants will put Catholicism in the same category as Mormonism as non-Christian cults.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Very true. My only point is that Javl is trying to use “cult” in a derogatory sense, and be buddy-buddy with Protestants, when some of those same Protestants will put Catholicism in the same category as Mormonism as non-Christian cults.

I agree, to some extent.

However, the similarities between mormonism and other “cults”, of the type with a negative modern connotation, is hard to overlook. A charismatic leader who claims divine authority and takes to himself the right to women and girls of the group, as a divine order of things. The pattern has been repeated many times, and such groups, modern American culture has named them “cult”.

LDS have worked over the last 30 or so years to become mainstream, or at least viewed as such. I don’t think this is a bad thing.

 

[Answersplease]

There is nothing wrong with being a cult.

There IS something wrong if your cult’s founder was a liar and adulterer who had sex with other mens wives.

Here’s your problem.

Joseph Smith claimed to be able to read the Kinderhook plates, which were bogus forgeries meant to fool him.

 

[Javl]

Very true. My only point is that Javl is trying to use “cult” in a derogatory sense, and be buddy-buddy with Protestants, when some of those same Protestants will put Catholicism in the same category as Mormonism as non-Christian cults.

Your statement is insulting. You mis-understand my point. I am NOT using cult in a derogatory sense. I am using the term as a comparison between a man-made religion and one founded by Christ. What would you call Jehovahs Witnesses, Christian Scientists, The Way, etc.? Those that do not understand ( like you ) are the ones that cause the dissension.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

I disagree with your statement, but that is ok. I am not here to change your mind or that of anyone else. I just found it interesting that there were several definitions of “cult” and that MANY churches fall into those definitions. Again, “cult” is in the eye of the beholder. As far as the importance of following the beliefs of “mainline churches”, that is not what truly counts. What counts is following Christ. And, as a pre-emptive strike for those who will say that the LDS church does not follow Christ, I will NOT get drawn into that argument
Annie

Like you, I disagree with your statement. I can present many points to refute your statements. But then, as you say, you will not be drawn into that argument, so let it be thus.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[TheosisM]

Your statement is insulting. You mis-understand my point. I am NOT using cult in a derogatory sense. I am using the term as a comparison between a man-made religion and one founded by Christ. What would you call Jehovahs Witnesses, Christian Scientists, The Way, etc.? Those that do not understand ( like you ) are the ones that cause the dissension.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

So everyone else that had a similar reaction to your statement, both Catholic and non-Catholic alike, is misunderstanding you. And again, some of those same Protestants that you were quick to associate with on this issue will turn around and call Catholicism a cult, but I’m sure they mean it in a benign manner. Why not just use “religion”, and leave “cult” for Heavens Gate, Branch Davidians, Peoples Temple, etc.

 

[Annie_B]

Your statement is insulting. You mis-understand my point. I am NOT using cult in a derogatory sense. I am using the term as a comparison between a man-made religion and one founded by Christ. What would you call Jehovahs Witnesses, Christian Scientists, The Way, etc.? Those that do not understand ( like you ) are the ones that cause the dissension.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

“The ones who cause dissension” are the ones who think and talk and speak and act like they are better than everyone else because they think their belief system is the only correct one Mormons, Cahtolics and EVERY other church included. Everyone has the right to believe what they want and practice the religion of their concience, but NOBODY has the right to put down or insult the beliefs of another:thumbsup:

ANnie

 

[Anna_Scott]

Don’t worry, I’m sure he’ll use the same argument and definitions when some of those same Protestants he’s associating Catholicism with in this instance also call Catholicism a cult (funny how some of those anti-Mormon websites by Evangelicals also have anti-Catholic pages. Of course they’re right about Mormons and wrong about Catholics according to some).

TheosisM,

Not quite sure what you are saying here. What Protestants are you referring to?

Anna

 

[TheosisM]

TheosisM,

Not quite sure what you are saying here. What Protestants are you referring to?

Anna

The Protestants that refer to Catholicism as a cult (and use other derogatory terms). I’m speaking in general terms.

Surely you’ve seen the recent threads here about the “Baptistboard” forum for one recent example. I’m saying that it seems as if some have the mentality that it’s true when Protestants and Catholics (some) say that Mormonism is a cult, but when some of those same Protestants also refer to Catholicism as a cult, it can’t be true.

 

[RebeccaJ]

So everyone else that had a similar reaction to your statement, both Catholic and non-Catholic alike, is misunderstanding you. And again, some of those same Protestants that you were quick to associate with on this issue will turn around and call Catholicism a cult, but I’m sure they mean it in a benign manner. Why not just use “religion”, and leave “cult” for Heavens Gate, Branch Davidians, Peoples Temple, etc.

There isn’t a lot of difference between the Branch Davidians and the LDS church c.1840.