Leaving the Church for now

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rosejmj said:
And the Bible or tradition does not count as proof because you can’t convince someone with something only those who already are Christian believe is “Revelation”
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Maybe you can’t start with the Bible as proof, but keep in mind it didn’t fall out of the sky. The gospels and epistles were written in the first century, and you can certainly still weigh it as evidence. Not that they prove themselves, that’s not what I’m saying, but you can look at the various books simply as first century documents, look at them in a first century context, and decided whether to put stock in them. It’s certainly indicative of some movement or belief in that time period.

Anyway, best journeys.
 
How does original sin not make sense? Adam and Eve were created to be perfect but screwed up and that’s how it started. Catholics are not relying on feelings, they rely on the Bible which happen to include the teachings of the faith. Hell is there as a punishment for those who reject God. God does not want to send anyone to hell but he gave us free will. It sounds like the faith was not explained well to you. Do you have a sense God loves you? Jesus had to die to save our sins and to enable our salvation. It is a beautiful thing that God allowed his death. Sure Good Friday is sad, but on Easter Sunday, Jesus rose gloriously from the dead.
 
Well I yu could look at one of my other topics- “God’s fault we are sinners”
 
rosejmj said:
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alphonsus1:
  • If Theism is correct, why is one religion the fullness of Truth? Why is the Truth not a non-contradictory combination of the Truth claims in different religions?
  • If one religion is the fullness of Truth, why Christianity?
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These questions in particular
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Ok,
The “fullness of truth” does NOT mean that some other religions are 100% wrong.

It also doesn’t mean that the Catholic Church knows 100% everything about God.

What it means is that our of all the religions out there, the Catholic Church “officially” teaches no error and and has the most complete picture of God. But it does not mean that we have the complete picture of God, nor does it mean that individuals are perfect.

I always say, you don’t leave Jesus because of Judas. Meaning, you don’t let bad Catholics pull you away from the faith.

I pray this helps a little.

And may suggest (if you haven’t done so yet) to call your local priest - or one you really like - and sit down to discuss your concerns. Have an open dialogue with him. Or if you don’t care to speak with a priest, find a good Deacon or lay person who really knows the faith.

God Bless
 
rosejmj said:
Well I yu could look at one of my other topics- “God’s fault we are sinners”
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What did you think about my argument that when Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge (also called the Tree of Good & Evil), that it altered their DNA?

If the Tree altered their DNA, they would obviously pass that down to all of us.

Thoughts?
 
I have spoken to a priest. It was more about personal issues and I was told I would have to decide for myself if I would follow the Catholic Faith and he would not try to convince me
 
Still God is all powerful. Just because Adam and Eve sinned doesn’t mean we have to inherit it. It is especially hard to understand when you learn that Mary was concieved without sin because God could have done that with everyone not just Mary
 
We have some choice but it is also virtually impossible to not fall I to sin in your life unless you never reach reason
 
I am more attracted to Eastern Churches and their history makes more sense it is just not so easy
 
2000 years of witnesses–the saints and myriads of believers–poor people, rich people, educated people, illiterate people, people from all countries and all races, from all cultures and backgrounds, have not only believed in Catholicism and its Truths but gave their lives for it. I for one find this powerful evidence. Do you believe they were all deluded?
 
Any people have been deluded and have followed and even given their lives to wierd religious beliefs and traditions. Does t make it true
 
This is indicative of a widespread conception, which I succumb to as well. Many people now (perhaps due to our emphasis on education, perhaps not) have a firm idea that if they don’t understand something it must be wrong. And that just doesn’t follow.

These are basic questions that have been asked and answered. If one doesn’t understand either the question or the answer, it can just mean that one just plain doesn’t understand. Why make categorical statements on things which lie beyond your understanding.

Read, think, pray, and wait.

Don’t leave the Church because of your lack of understanding. Because at the end of the day, this is apostasy. You are willfully rejecting Christ. You are not invincibly ignorant, and anyone that tells you that this is okay shares in the culpability.
 
@rosejmj

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Many great saints had times of doubt. I strongly suggest you read “Story of a Soul,” the autobiography of St. Thérèse of Lisieux.

When I was stuck in a long period of doubt, I asked the Blessed Mother to carry my prayers to Jesus.

Think about staying with the Church Christ Himself founded.
Matthew 16:18 (NABRE)

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock
I will build my church and the gates of the netherworld
shall not prevail against it
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Just because Adam and Eve sinned doesn’t mean we have to inherit it.
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We inherited death from Adam and Eve. That is why Jesus is risen. He has restored us to life.
 
The Bible is by far the best confirmed historical document of its time. Any historian who denies the historical accuracy of the Bible is almost always doing it because of personal bias. The Bible confirms Catholic doctrine. If you are not convinced by this, then I would recommend that you speak to a well established apologist - cases like this are one of the primary reasons that apologists exist. They should be happy to either talk to you or recommend a less busy apologist. I agree that you should study non Catholic sources, but you should give Catholicism the benefit of the doubt. I will pray for you.
 
@rosejmj

For me, the most solid miracle we can go to is the story of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Our Lady appeared to St. Juan Diego. She placed the roses in his tilma (poncho) and told him to show the bishop. When St. Juan Diego opened his tilma to show the roses, all discovered that the Blessed Mother’s portrait was revealed. The tilma is made of rough cloth that should have rotted by now. Scientists have discovered amazing details in the tilma.

I visited the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico. I saw the tilma with my own eyes. It is an undeniable miracle that cannot be refuted.

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That is a really good idea, but I think that the “miracle of the sun” with OL of Fatima is even better established - 80,000 witnesses and reported in atheistic and anarchist newspapers in the 20th century.
 
  1. Go before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.
  2. Sit.
  3. Pray.
  4. Gaze upon Him.
  5. Tell Him your doubts.
  6. Be as patient with Him as He has been with you.
  7. When you are aware that He is there…
…you will be changed.
 
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