M
Mickey
Guest
That is because no one is paying much attention to your sarcastic taunting.
- Status
M
mdrummer5
Guest
M
mdrummer5
Guest
So what fault do you find in the lyrics I quoted?Yes. Pretty lyrics will not justify a gut-wrenching hoarse demon-like wail accompanied by speed death metal thrash music.
M
Mickey
Guest
Seems fairly benign. But I do not know the musical accompaniment.
J
JHow
Guest
I am not employing sarcasm, which would be a derisive, mean-spirited form of irony, but a milder form called satire.That is because no one is paying much attention to your sarcastic taunting.
The bigger point, however, is that I am asking questions for which you clearly have no answer. I am really hammering one point, which is that you can’t provide objective musical criteria for identifying “bad” music, absent looking at lyrics and context.
M
mdrummer5
Guest
Thanks Jharek… can’t access youtube at work.
Regardless Mickey, what does the musical accompaniment have to do with it? And benign? How could you consider it anything but overtly Christian???
Are you saying that if it’s a metal band then the lyrics are inconsequential and it’s bad because of the sound?
Regardless Mickey, what does the musical accompaniment have to do with it? And benign? How could you consider it anything but overtly Christian???
Are you saying that if it’s a metal band then the lyrics are inconsequential and it’s bad because of the sound?
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear Ne_Orange Knight,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou again for your response to my recent post.
Whilst there is nothing untoward about entering into the spirit of a rousing or inspiring peice of good classical music, that is totally distinct from music that makes its appeal to those elemental passions, by which I mean those carnal, sensual and worldly parts of our fallen nature which are all too easily stimulated by that debased sensory material, rock and pop, as Mickey’s post above evinces most clearly. It is of paramount improtance that we distinguish between things which essentially differ, otherwise we are likely to be off beam and make fallacious comparisons.
It is a fact that since its inception rock music has been associated with puerile youth rebellion and moral permissiveness. Its suggestive lyrics, repudiation of restraint and its very warped celebration of freedom and sexuality have made it very appealing to youth; it strikes a chord (no pun intended) and therefore resonates with how the young feel at this difficult age. Even those within the pro-rock camp freely admit to the vulgarity of rock music. Thus, Robert Pattison perceives that the lyrics are “trite, obscene and idiotic” (*The Triumph of Vulgarity: *Rock Music in the Mirror of Romanticism). Only a very blinkered man would deny the connectivity between rock and pop and blatant sexual immorality. That rock and pop have strong sexual connotations is something which is firmly established and is so obvious that even a blind man on a galloping horse could see it.
Rock and pop music have much to do with aggression, sexual promiscuity and disorder. the music iteself is obscene and disturbing, aside form any lyrics, and the emotions evoked by such music can hardly be deemed virtuous, much less Christian. It is an undeniable fact that the passions (note the wrong passions) sensuality, pride, rebellion, aggression, power and downright irreverence are frequently elicited by the rythyms characteristic of this unsavoury bilge.
Rock and pop music has shown itself to be prehaps the most significant art form to emerge in the last century and has had a devasting impact upon youth culture. Moreover, its importance is far greater than musical; it is gauge of the shifts in attitude of youth towards sex, authority, taste, their contemporaries and certainly their ethics (or want of them). No other single influence has done as much to shape the standards and moral conduct (for proof refer to Mickey’s post above) of young people as rock an pop music has. It is undeniable that they are immersed in this debased music and that their philosophies of life are being formed by the deplorable lyrics.
The question of what kinds of food might and might not be taken did indeed vex the primitive Church. However, this really has nothing whatsoever to do with our present topic, dear friend. In any event, we know that those with scruples respecting meats were wrong because our Lord on one memorable occasion, abrogated the food-laws by pronouncing all kinds of foods to be ‘clean’ (see Mk. 7: 19). In other words this is not an open question or a matter of doubt. Unfortunately, our Church has not as yet pronounced specifically against rock and pop music, thus the faithful must continue to use reasoned logic and their sanctified common sense to determine whether or not it is an acceptable art form. Now when rock and pop music are weighed in the balances they are clearly found to wanting on so many counts. This being the case we are entitled to pass unfavourable judegement upon them and expose them as “unfruitful works of darkness”. Moreover, as a work of mercy and an act of love we ought to admonish others to give this culturally unwholesome sensory material a wide-berth.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
J
JHow
Guest
Portrait:
How do the rythyms in rock music elicit sensuality? And how do you know that what you perceive as “sensual” in the music isn’t really a cultural association that you have with a particular musical style? For instance, if you had never seen a tango danced, but just heard a recording of one, and we asked you to describe it, would “sensual” necessarily be on your list of adjectives to describe the music? Also, suppose counter-examples were produced to demonstrate songs using the same “sensual” rhythyms in rock in other genres that would probably not be considered so sensual?
M
Mickey
Guest
LOL! That’s what Jharek says too!
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear Mickey,
Cordial greetings.
Musical accompaniment is equally as important as the lyrics because where rock and pop music are concerned, the music is the message. Rock music is communication without words, irrespective of what lyrics are slotted into the music. In other words the lyrics only inform you as to what the music is already saying. This is owing to the fact that some art forms have been created to express certain philosophies and are so inseparably wedded to those philosophies that they convey a particular world-view. This is most definetely the case with rock and pop. Therefore, even were you to put the Magnificat or the Lord’s Prayer to a rock tune that would not sanitise the music and somehow render it all respectable. On the contrary, I would contend that that would be an act of grave impiety since the music to which those sacred words would be appended conveys its own message and that message is unwholesome and impure - “What concord has light with darkness?”.
Re. your earlier post. Yes, the term ‘Fundamentalist’ is a most distasteful term and is invariably used in pejorative sense nowadays, which is most uncharitable. The only reason I sometimes use it is for the purposes of clarity, especially on an American site like CAF, where the term is almost synonymous with ‘Evangelical’. However, not every Evangelical is a Fundamentalist, but every Fundamentalist is an Evangleical.
Jolly good posts. You are doing a sterling job, old chap.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
M
Mickey
Guest
Sorry. It tells me that I cannot watch this in my country.
M
Mickey
Guest
Much.
Yes…benign. It looks like your typical protestant-type Christian lyrics.
Possibly. The speed metal thrash stuff is nasty!
M
mdrummer5
Guest
But that’s a matter of taste. I appreciate that you don’t care for the sound but you cannot judge a band based on the sound alone no more than you can judge a book by it’s cover or a person by the color of their skin. It’s all a form of prejudice and is wrong.
M
Mickey
Guest
Research by psychologists L. Rowell Huesmann, Leonard Eron and others found that children who watched many hours of violence on television when they were in elementary school tended to also show a higher level of aggressive behavior when they became teenagers. By observing these youngsters into adulthood, Drs. Huesmann and Eron found that the ones who’d watched a lot of TV violence when they were eight years old were more likely to be arrested and prosecuted for criminal acts as adults. Interestingly, being aggressive as a child did not predict watching more violent TV as a teenager, suggesting that TV watching may more often be a cause rather than a consequence of aggressive behavior.
Violent video games are a more recent phenomenon; therefore there is less research on their effects. However, research by psychologist Craig A. Anderson and others shows that playing violent video games can increase a person’s aggressive thoughts, feelings and behavior both in laboratory settings and in actual life. In fact, a study by Dr. Anderson in 2000 suggests that violent video games may be more harmful than violent television and movies because they are interactive, very engrossing and require the player to identify with the aggressor.
Dr. Anderson and other researches are also looking into how violent music lyrics affect children and adults. In a 2003 study involving college students, Anderson found that songs with violent lyrics increased aggression related thoughts and emotions and this effect was directly related to the violent content of the lyrics. “One major conclusion from this and other research on violent entertainment media is that content matters,” says Anderson. “This message is important for all consumers, but especially for parents of children and adolescents.”
apa.org/research/action/protect.aspx
J
JHow
Guest
You find no irony in learning that the roots of “The Summons” were orginally a folk song about traipsing along the dingle side with a bonnie lassie, to say nothing of the orginal rape theme?
M
Mickey
Guest
On the contrary. The thrash speed stuff has been known to cause aggression (with or without lyrics).
Ever see a mosh pit?
M
Mickey
Guest
No. Only sarcasm. You are now on my very short ignore list.
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear JHow,
Cordial greetings and nice to see you on the boards again. Hope all is well, dear friend.
Please refer to my last post to Mickey (#143) which I think wil address the issue that you raise. If you would like to elaborate further I will gladly do so, but tomorrow as I am taking my leave now.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
M
mdrummer5
Guest
You can find a study to show anything. It’s all a matter of what the people conducting the study want to conclude.
Taken from: pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/myths.html
M
mdrummer5
Guest
Yes I have… and that has nothing to do with the band or their sound… that’s the reaction of the individual. That’s an issue with their thinking… not the band’s sound.On the contrary. The thrash speed stuff has been known to cause aggression (with or without lyrics).
Ever see a mosh pit?
But since you think you can judge something based on nothing more than one of your five senses tell me how judging a band based on their sound is any better than judging a person based ont he color of their skin.
- Status