Let’s Blame Mother Earth..... really?

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ConcernedConvert said:
There is no hate.
There is concern. As there has been throughout history. If we stop caring about orthodoxy and never stand up for it and create those hard discussions than were not doing our jobs as Catholics.
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To discuss whether or not the Pope believes that the planet is an actual person who is having an actual fever? Do you realize how this sounds?

It’s not a hard discussion. It’s a diatribe from a person on Youtube looking for every and any petty way to poke at somebody.
 
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ConcernedConvert said:
There is no hate.
There is concern.
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I watched as much of it as I could stomach and actually felt a bit embarrassed for Marshall.

The Pope is simply employing a literary device called personification. Personification is neither idolatry nor any other type of sin. Authors and speakers who use this rhetorical device are not worshiping what they personify; rather, they are depicting it in colorful language.

I’m frankly baffled that a PhD holder like Marshall cannot see this. I’m not going to be diplomatic here. The argument in the video sounds like something I’d hear at a fundamentalist church with an uneducated pastor.
 
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I disagree. The video seemed well researched, thought out and presented to me. If this were the only instance of the pope making such a statement or confusing remark I probably would feel differently. Unfortunately it is not and has become a trend if his.
 
I’m guessing you didn’t like Laudato Si and you’re not a fan of Franciscan spirituality. There is nothing heretical about this. Pope Francis is using a poetic device.

The earth is a complex of creatures. It is not God. We are not pantheists. I thought it was insightful how the Pope said, God always forgives, we sometimes forgive, nature never forgives. Nature is metaphorically our mother, because we are “dust of the earth.”

"All praise be yours, my Lord, through our Sister
Mother Earth, who sustains us and governs us,
and produces various fruits with colored flowers
and herbs." - St. Francis, Canticle of Creatures
 
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He has a lot of very excellent material. People may not like how critical he is of leaders within the church, but he typically has valid reasons, provides good sources and supports his concerns strongly. You personally may not like his positions, but I have found many of them to be very sound and grounded in catholic theology and doctrine.
 
So many people don’t. Sorry for asking, it wasn’t insulting however.
 
Elias said:
Yes, this is true, but considering what happened at the Amazon Synod (where the Amazon indians literally bowed to an idol on Vatican grounds. The same idol that was in one of God’s churches, the same one that was rightfully chucked into the river) it has many faithful on edge about Pope Francis and his management of Jesus’ flock.
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They were Catholics and (I believe) bowed down for a short moment amid prayers. Please don’t assume it’s an idol.
I don’t agree with everything on this website, but the articles about the pachamama fiasco are fairly thorough:

 
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Neithan said:
I’m guessing you didn’t like Laudato Si and you’re not a fan of Franciscan spirituality. There is nothing heretical about this. Pope Francis is using a poetic device.

The earth is a complex of creatures. It is not God. We are not pantheists. I thought it was insightful how the Pope said, God always forgives, we sometimes forgive, nature never forgives. Nature is metaphorically our mother, because we are “dust of the earth.”

" All praise be yours, my Lord, through our Sister
Mother Earth, who sustains us and governs us,
and produces various fruits with colored flowers
and herbs." - St. Francis, Canticle of Creatures
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Thanks for this. I don’t know why people can’t grasp that poetic expression and Catholicism are not enemies. I find that people who are easily confused by the pope don’t grasp nuance. Surely he is not the first pope to use colorful language in speech. Everytime people report to be confused by something he said, I find it to be crystal clear. People are looking for confusion where most find none. Give it a week and nobody will even remember this interview but people are clutching pearls over a commonly used phrase. I just can’t even.
 
Emeraldlady said:
There is a solidarity among all creatures arising from the fact that all have the same Creator and are all ordered to his glory: May you be praised, O Lord, in all your creatures, especially brother sun, by whom you give us light for the day; he is beautiful, radiating great splendor, and offering us a symbol of you, the Most High. . .

May you be praised, my Lord, for sister water, who is very useful and humble, precious and chaste. . .
May you be praised, my Lord, for sister earth, our mother, who bears and feeds us, and produces the variety of fruits and dappled flowers and grasses. . .
Praise and bless my Lord, give thanks and serve him in all humility. (CCC 344)

The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul’s spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination.282 Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man.283 Because of man, creation is now subject “to its bondage to decay”.284 Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will “return to the ground”,285 for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history .286 (CCC400)

In what way is the Pope being ambiguous in his description of what’s happening? It is very clear to me.
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Thank you!
 
But there are some that will twist it and see it as the Pope giving justification to the Amazonian pagans and the enablement of their idolatry. We already have some telling these people that their false goddess is just the Virgin Mary and ergo okay to give the earth veneration and worship.

Also, pretty ignorant to not even give the man a view to debunk him. This behaviour is no different than condemming [insert your least favorite news outlet here] as #FakeNews without even giving said outlet a chance.
 
blackforest said:
I watched as much of it as I could stomach and actually felt a bit embarrassed for Marshall.

The Pope is simply employing a literary device called personification . Personification is not neither idolatry nor any other type of sin. Authors and speakers who use this rhetorical device are not worshiping what they personify; rather, they are depicting it in colorful language.

I’m frankly baffled that a PhD holder like Marshall cannot see this. I’m not going to be diplomatic here. The argument in the video sounds like something I’d hear at a fundamentalist church with an uneducated pastor.
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Agreed. I grew up in the Baptist bible belt and this type of nonsense is bringing up bad memories.
 
Considering a literal Amazonian tribal leader confirmed that it was a pagan idol there is no doubt in my mind what that thing was.

www.lifesitenews.com

Amazonian tribal leader: Liberation Theology is pushing our people to remain in poverty and misery - LifeSite

A 'dictatorship' of missionary workers teaching liberation theology has 'dismantled' the work of the first missionaries, he warned.
www.lifesitenews.com www.lifesitenews.com

The Pope himself even confirmed they were pagan statues and not of the Blessed Virgin


But I will not derail this thread into what that statue was. The information is already out there.
 
No worries about derailing the thread! This is exactly why the thread exists. This is not an isolated incident. But one that falls, or appears to fall in my eyes, right in line with many other problems and confusions that are portrayed by the pope and other church leaders. It begins to be something well worth keeping up with and sharing with others.
 
Elias said:
Also, pretty ignorant to not even give the man a view to debunk him.
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Oh, I’ve given him enough views to know I don’t want to enable or monetize his channel. I’ve now read enough of the actual interview to see that the pope said nothing a reasonable person would construe as heresy.

And people find ways of twisting all kinds of words to fit their personal narrative—they’ve done it with Christ himself; the pope is not exempt.
 
The problem is that his words did not need twisted. That is the whole point. His actual words say something that is very easy for people to take and run with in a heretical extreme direction. This is classic ambiguity at best potential heresy at worst.
 
ConcernedConvert said:
The problem is that his words did not need twisted. That is the whole point. His actual words say something that is very easy for people to take and run with in a heretical extreme direction. This is classic ambiguity at best potential heresy at worst.
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It’s only people like you who are making his words run in a heretical extreme direction. Seriously, who actually saw the interview and is going hmmm, think 'll become a pantheist now cause Pope Francis said Mother Earth. Nobody. The outrage is overreaction at best, I don’t even know what at worst.
 
Elias said:
Considering a literal Amazonian tribal leader confirmed that it was a pagan idol there is no doubt in my mind what that thing was.
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If I recall correctly, this was addressed in the various articles about the topic on the site I linked to. Perhaps I am remembering incorrectly.
But Lifesite News is often very negative concerning the hierarchy.
But, the tribal leader was, if I recall, a protestant. Would he consider even veneration in front of a statue of Mary an idolatrous pagan ceremony?
Elias said:
The Pope himself even confirmed they were pagan statues and not of the Blessed Virgin
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It literally quotes him as saying that they were there without idolatrous intent.

I would really suggest reading through the various articles on the site I linked to (again, not that I support everything said on said site).
 
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