Let's be real about the shortage of priests

[QwertyGirl]

No, I wouldn’t say “not breathing is wrong”, although I’d agree that it’s contrary to our human nature. And if we’re saying that learning is just like that… aren’t we saying that we don’t will it happen? That we don’t share in the benefits of it, from the perspective of being a rational human being?

I would say much of what we learn benefits us as rational human beings. I believe the bigger impact, though, is on the soul and how we will use the knowledge at the next level of our existence. I realize this is probably a little out there for those who hold more traditional beliefs, but I am agnostic after all. I have what a lot of people consider crazy ideas. Admittedly, that is what they are. Ideas. But they work for me. I have a good life, love people, have people who love me, and I don’t live in fear of what is to come. I see what most people consider “good” or “bad” events as opportunities to strengthen the soul. Strength is always good, I believe, unless strength is used to hurt someone else.

 

[mh2007]

Yes, there certainly is a shortage of priests. A very practical solution would be for the Church to ordain women, and also sanction a married clergy. But the hierarchy / bureaucracy are not inclined to make this radical change. Those of us who are advanced in years believe this concept could work. But we don’t have a ‘vote’ - so to speak. So we pray for vocations after every Mass in our parish, but it is voluntary. The modern American culture, heavily influenced by a radical media, would abolish religion if they had their way. The state would infringe upon what our forefathers died for - namely religious freedom. Look at totalitarian regimes. They outlaw religious assembly. Such oppression is an abomination, but it happens. So we must stand up and keep the faith going by participating. If we don’t, the media and the state will prevail, and society will be worse off.

 

[Jas31784]

The Church doesn’t have the authority to ordain women. Christ didn’t ordain women as the Apostles. Yes women have a very important role in the Church and religious life, Christ even appeared to women first at the resurrection. However the Church cannot ordain women as Christ established how he wanted his Church to be run. It isn’t even a discipline whereas married priests is one which can be changed.
And some argue Christ was limited in his era and couldn’t but this isn’t true. He actually performed and did things which were even more taboo than that. This isn’t some Protestant sect that goes with the social norms. This church was established by Christ. JP2 said he would allow women to be priests but the Church does not have the authority to do that. It can have synods and councils but it cannot ever override what Christ imposed his Church to be.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I think there would need to be a lot of education as the average parishioner may not realise the difference between the two types of service and how best to fulfil their obligation.

Maybe it would be better to think of it as an extension of the ministry that provides the Eucharist to the sick and housebound. There are definitely a lot of people who aren’t housebound but don’t have access to a mass maybe because their parish has been merged with one they can’t get to or there is only a Saturday Vigil which many elderly can’t access in the dark winter months.

 

[commenter]

Yes, there certainly is a shortage of priests. A very practical solution would be for the Church to ordain women, … But the hierarchy / bureaucracy are not inclined to make this radical change.

It is not because the Church - what you call “bureaucracy” - would not allow it, but because the Catholic Faith does not allow it.

Some would call it “practical” to adopt the secular society’s demands for churches, which include women clergy. Or it would be “practical” if we realign all the Church’s moral teaching to fit exactly what CNN teaches. Then we could say the Church is totally up to date.

Do we want that?

 

[dochawk]

When I was in high school and college, I never even considered the priesthood. Now if priests could get married, I would have at least considered it.

Celibacy is the only reason I never enrolled in a seminary. The first time I was close, I fell in love and almost married, while the second time I did marry.

If I had been baptized Eastern Catholic, rather than choosing it later, I would have gone long ago, with my wife’s support (I teased her once I was switching that now I could go to seminary–but she was raised Protestant; instead of scary she was all for it )

For that matter, had I known thirty years ago what I know now about the East, I probably would have become Melkite back then, and it might have led to one of their “interesting” paths to ordination (long before the improper ban on EC ordinations of married men in the US was lifted, the Melkites were training married men in the US, and then sending them back to Antioch, who ordained them, and permanently “lent” them back to a US bishop . . .)

hawj

 

[Jas31784]

Yah celibacy is unnatural and really ridiculous.

How many priests even really are celibate? I’m sure the number who aren’t would be surprising to all of us. I for one know of a few priests in my diocese I would put money on they aren’t. I’ve seen friendly flirting going on and one has to wonder if that’s happening in the Church what goes on outside.
Priests aren’t some entity that don’t have human desires. They are just like the rest of us. They are holy but to think they are supposed to just never have sex is kind of ridiculous. I am not even sure Jesus was celibate. How would we know what he was doing in the dark areas of the Gospels? We don’t.

 

[Fauken]

I am not even sure Jesus was celibate.

I’d be very careful if I were you. You’re suggesting that God Himself could not control nor overcome desires of the flesh, and if so, sinned. Which is extremely heretical.

 

[angelic06]

The Church does not have the authority to ordain women.

I am quite sure other Christian communities have grace in it, but considering that the Holy Eucharist is, in the terms of the East, “the medicine for immortality” and that the priests also have the power to serve as exorcist, with the permission of their respective bishops (directly command demons to leave someone, not merely intercede for a person), it is absolutely important that the Catholic Church gets this one right.

It truly is a matter of life and death [of the soul] and a battle between spiritual powers above and below which we mortals can hardly comprehend.

 

[Jas31784]

I’m sorry I see nothing heretical about it. Why is sex viewed as sin? It’s really not.

 

[Fauken]

It’s a sin when it’s outside of marriage! And Jesus was not married.

 

[Jas31784]

How do we even know that? None of us knew what he did. His missing 30 years for all we know he was married before his mission.

 

[Jas31784]

Give me one primary source from the time of the Apostles that says he was not married and was celibate his entire life. You can even cite an apocryphal new testament book. I want concrete evidence not what people said about him centuries after the fact. Which it really was. People were arguing over his true nature well into the fourth century.

 

[Fauken]

It would be impossible for it to be unnoticed, for one. Claiming that he could have been due to 30 years of his life not being documented does not automatically mean he could have been married.

 

[Fauken]

I don’t have to provide you a thing. It’s your claim, prove it. Arguing from silence is fallacious. I could just as easily claim that during those 30 years, Jesus transformed Himself into a camel, crossed into Japan, ate udon noodles, then returned to Jerusalem all in the same night.

 

[Gorgias]

Yah celibacy is unnatural and really ridiculous.

How many priests even really are celibate?

Umm… ‘celibate’ means ‘unmarried’. So… yeah. Nearly all priests are celibate.

How do we even know that? None of us knew what he did. His missing 30 years for all we know he was married before his mission.

So… when the Gospels talk about Jesus’ family, you think they’d mention His wife, and not just “mother and brothers and sisters”… no?

Give me one primary source from the time of the Apostles that says he was not married and was celibate his entire life.

Erm… do you have any reliable source that demonstrates that Jesus was married?

 

[Gorgias]

Maybe it would be better to think of it as an extension of the ministry that provides the Eucharist to the sick and housebound.

So, here’s the thing. Would someone who had communion taken to them at home ever confuse that service with a Mass? Not so much. Would someone at a communion service in a church, with a liturgy of the Word, be confused, especially if that service took place at a time at which Mass is normally celebrated? Yep.

There are definitely a lot of people who aren’t housebound but don’t have access to a mass maybe because their parish has been merged with one they can’t get to

And for those people, the obligation is removed. However, allowing those folks to think that they’ve met that obligation – by a service that doesn’t meet that obligation – does a grave disservice to them!

 

[edtaylor51]

If I had known about the Eastern Catholic church when I was 18, maybe I’d have considered this! Hard to look back and say for sure though, who can predict what an 18 year old would think?

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Even if they have no obligation are these people likely to stay Catholic? I mean even families who attend mass struggle to keep their children in the faith, families left with nothing will surely have worse results.

The thought of the Catholic faith only being accessible to those who live centrally or who can afford cars and are healthy enough to drive makes me rather sad.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Picking and choosing. Jesus wasn’t married either, so why ok to have married priests, then? Jesus didn’t speak English, so why ok to say the mass in English. So arbitrary.