Liberty students to return to campus

[Cathoholic]

meltzerboy2 . . .

A police state? The federal government stopping the spread of a dangerous virus and thereby saving lives is the equivalent of a police state?

Last week your guys were telling us how imperative it is to let many prisoners go.
"Now is not the time for jailing non-violent criminals we were told."

This week they are arresting people who pray outside of abortion clinics. (Even when they are following social distancing guidelines.)

They are also threatening to permenantly close Churches and Synagogues.

WATCH: Police arrest pro-lifers outside abortion center for allegedly breaking stay-at-home order - LifeSite

The pro-lifers respectfully reiterated to the police that they intended to remain, per their understanding of the county order, and were arrested.

www.lifesitenews.com

NYC mayor threatens permanent shutdown of any group doing public religious services - LifeSite

'Anyone who's hearing this, take it seriously. You've been warned.'

www.lifesitenews.com

.

And some jailbreak articles . . . .

.

Coronavirus Jailbreak: Los Angeles, Chicago Free Hundreds from Prison

Cities across the U.S. are releasing accused criminals, claiming their release is necessary to ensure the coronavirus does not spread.

www.breitbart.com

Coronavirus Jailbreak: Freed Inmate Threatens to Kill Woman with Knife

A career criminal is accused of robbing and threatening to murder a woman at knifepoint after he was released from state prison.

www.breitbart.com

Coronavirus Jailbreak: NYC Frees 375 Inmates While Car Theft Skyrockets

Bill de Blasio is bragging about the number of inmates he is releasing from prison amid the coronavirus crisis while car theft skyrockets.

www.breitbart.com

House Democrats Beg AG Barr to 'Release as Many Prisoners as Possible'

House Democrats, led by Chairman Jerry Nadler (D-NY), are urging Attorney General Bill Barr to "release as many prisoners as possible.

www.breitbart.com

This is not healthy to live this way.

 

[meltzerboy2]

You are muddying the waters with other partisan issues. I am focusing directly on the crisis at hand and what I believe are the most reasonable ways to stem the tide of the virus. These other issues, including releasing prisoners, abortion protests, and so on, while perhaps tangentially related, are not the core of my argument. We can debate religious freedom, abortion, and prisoner status on other threads. Here, we are debating the role of the federal government in a national emergency.

BTW, they are not “my guys.” I have plenty of criticism for the way Mayor de Blasio has handled the situation, and am also not on board with every leftist policy that pops up. But, again, our views on these issues are not the focus of the present thread.

 

[Cathoholic]

Thorolfr . . .

But if we have a vaccine in a year, then old people and people with health conditions will be able to protect themselves to some extent.

We can protect the elderly and people with health conditions right now.

Social distancing, gloves, etc.

We have medications against Corona Virus that are producing outstanding results.

Many people have already been infected and need no vaccine (why expose THEM to the RISKS of a vaccine??).

I thought that is WHY all these measures were being undertaken when we go out?

“The elderly and people with health conditions” can get infections at the grocery stores too.

Time to get on with life (in appropriate areas).

 

[Cathoholic]

meltzerboy2 . . .

You are muddying the waters with other partisan issues . . .

No I’m not.

You asked (rhetorically) why I thought a police state was a risk here and I gave answers.

I think there is too much panic.

Yes there will be many more deaths. I may be among them.

But I refuse to live in fear and a state of constant panic.

I think too many people (not you) use “the elderly and the sick” as a pretext for implementing political agendas.

I think it’s inappropriate.

 

[Cathoholic]

meltzerboy2 . . .

BTW, they are not “my guys.”

True enough meltzerboy2. I will testify to that.

I meant that rhetorically for the readers in general. Not you per se (on that point).

 

[meltzerboy2]

You need not live in a constant state of fear and panic. Look, I am obeying the order to stay-at-home, but I am also teaching online (admittedly a headache in itself, but my job), watching television shows and movies that are divorced from the bombardment of news about the virus, which CAN create panic in anyone, and am speaking to friends on the phone as well as writing comments on CAF. Yes, my life is restricted, but since when can’t Americans sacrifice a little, compared especially to those on the front lines?

 

[Theo520]

How do healthy people in a community build up this immunity without infecting their old parents or their other relatives with chronic health conditions in the process? And some “healthy” people are still ending up in the hospital (and some in the ICU).

I’m guessing but I think you need people operating at two standards. The old and immune compromised remain on severe lockdown. Everyone else does a dance between severe and partial restrictions, so the infection burns through them without overloading healthcare. We can’t function if everyone is put in severe lockdown until a vaccine is produced in 12-18 months. And yes, people will still die no matter the approach taken. There is no option to just make it go away.

Coronavirus: The Hammer and the Dance

What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time

tomaspueyo.medium.com

 

[Cathoholic]

More characters.

 

[Theo520]

For historical reference, this article is interesting in showing how different cities responded to waves of the spanish flu

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

 

[Thorolfr]

“The elderly and people with health conditions” can get infections at the grocery stores too.

Time to get on with life (in appropriate areas).

Yes, the elderly and people with health conditions can get infected at the grocery store now. But if half of the people at the grocery store are already infected when an old person goes there, their chance of also getting infected is much higher than it would be if everyone was sheltering in place and there were fewer infected people.

 

[Cathoholic]

Thorolfr . . .

But if half of the people at the grocery store are already infected when an old person goes there, their chance of also getting infected is much higher than it would be if everyone was sheltering in place and there were fewer infected people.

I thought social distancing, gloves and all that stuff worked? (Ya mean it doesn’t!!?)

And where did you get a 50% infection rate (“half the people”)?

And will it still be a 50% infection rate in six months?

 

[Thorolfr]

I think too many people (not you) use “the elderly and the sick” as a pretext for implementing political agendas.

Or maybe they’re just concerned about themselves and their family. I have asthma which would put me at heightened risk of complications if I become infected with coronavirus. When I go out to the grocery store, not everyone is staying six feet away from me when I’m waiting in line. I don’t have any gloves. They’ve all been sold out and I’m running out of hand sanitizer and haven’t found anymore on store shelves for weeks.

And I can’t stay at home all the time. I’ve had to travel a long distance on public transportation every few weeks to take care of my elderly parents and because of the pandemic, I put both myself and them at risk. But I don’t have any choice since there’s no one else to look after them (I’m an only child). And I have a relative with cancer and a suppressed immune system who has to travel on public transportation to a hospital in the city every two weeks for chemotherapy. He also doesn’t have any other choice.

 

[Cathoholic]

Thorolfr . . .

Or maybe they’re just concerned about themselves and their family. I have asthma which would put me at heightened risk of complications if I become infected with coronavirus. When I go out to the grocery store, not everyone is staying six feet away from me when I’m waiting in line. I don’t have any gloves. They’ve all been sold out and I’m running out of hand sanitizer and haven’t found anymore on store shelves for weeks.

I get that Thorolfr.

I’ll stop and pray for you and your family as soon as I am done here.

But my point is, the elderly and the immune supressed are ALSO threatened by a deteriorating economy.

Gloves? I just wear leather gloves. I rotate them and let them sit around so any virus (not only Corona) has a chance to deteriorate.

Hand solution? I understand the empty shelves on hand sanitizer. If you have laundry bleach, you can make your own using 1 part bleach and ten parts water (Dakin’s solution). Don’t get it on your clothes as it will bleach them. Hibiclens soap is another option. Some people have used Everclear. The liquor stores are open, but I have no idea if that is there now or not either.

If Big-Alcohol had been broken up like it should have been years ago (anti-trust laws), we would have the freedom to distill our own alcohol (like New Zealand does).

Some recipes suggest adding some hydrogen peroxide to your hand alcohol dispenser. I think the CDC had that one.

Immune supression is a real concern, and I understand that too.

But those things don’t go away if the economy is tanked.

And months from now guys will still be immune supressed and we will have to venture out then if we haven’t already.

All your concerns here are real. And I understand them more than you might realize.

But there’s risks with just hunkering down too.

It is better to have America fight the Corona Virus
than a proverbial Venezuela here.

Not everyone will live through this.

But when we are ready to come back out, we will still have to face these issues.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Theo520]

Yes, the elderly and people with health conditions can get infected at the grocery store now. But if half of the people at the grocery store are already infected when an old person goes there, their chance of also getting infected is much higher than it would be if everyone was sheltering in place and there were fewer infected people.

If everyone in FL sheltered for 3 weeks, the initial curve would subside but not go away. Some people broke shelter and passed it on, or someone from outside the state brings it back inside. Thus in four weeks it starts all over again but people can’t afford to go back and shelter again for another 3 weeks.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Many of the counties on your own map is at zero.

That’s an optimistic view point! I see that only 88.5% of the land area on the map is within a county with infections. But seeing the 11.5% of the land is within counties that don’t know of infections yet may be a positive perspective

 

[LeafByNiggle]

My understanding is they want to flatten the curve some, but not completely since it would just pop up again when restrictions were lifted, but they wouldn’t have build up any immunity for the pain incurred.

Where did you get this “understanding?” I have not heard any medical professional advise against flattening the curve too much.

 

[Theo520]

Where did you get this “understanding?” I have not heard any medical professional advise against flattening the curve too much.

Start reading the links I and may others have provided.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Where did you get this “understanding?” I have not heard any medical professional advise against flattening the curve too much.

Start reading the links I and may others have provided.

In other words, you made it up.

 

[Theo520]

In other words, you made it up.

“My understanding” is literally what it says
I’ve read what I read and posted my understanding.

This really shouldn’t confuse you,

please engage here with integrity, or just don’t respond to my posts.

Responding with integrity would include refuting “my understanding” with ‘your understanding’

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

In other words, you made it up.

“My understanding” is literally what it says
I’ve read what I read and posted my understanding.

This really shouldn’t confuse you,

please engage here with integrity, or just don’t respond to my posts.

Responding with integrity would include refuting “my understanding” with ‘your understanding’

My understanding, then, is that we have been advised to avoid infection and transmission as much as practical, and that there is no such thing as “not enough transmission”, or “flattening the curve too much”.

What your “understanding” calls to mind is the days when families used to infect their children deliberately with chicken pox in so-called “pox parties” to “get over it”, thinking they were going to get it eventually.