"Life will not be like it was pre-COVID. Even after we have a #vaccine you will still need to use good hand hygiene, maintain physical distance, avoid

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StudentMI said:
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Motherwit:
The reason why libertarianism never eventuates into a sound doctrine is this very contradiction. They cut off their nose to spite their face in essence. They don’t accept that there is ever a valid circumstance to curtail freedom.
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They don’t accept that the state can be trusted to do so. You disagree. Let’s be clear on that.
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They don’t provide any alternative to ‘the state’ to serve the common good. Just permanent anarchy which has never in the history of mankind made for good society.
 
Motherwit to Cathoholic regarding masks . . .
The reason why libertarianism . . .
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I’m not a “liberterian”.

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They cut off their nose to spite their face in essence.
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The false built-in presupposition that Motherwit knows what masks even are (an impossibility as they are not even attempted to be defined), AND that they are beneficial.

This in logic, is a form of appealing to your conclusion, to support your premise.

It is ipse dixit.

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They don’t accept that there is ever a valid circumstance to curtail freedom.
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Why is “curtailing freedom” an acceptable tradeoff
to only possibly postpone an infection?

Masks don’t PREVENT people from getting Corona virus. You know that right?
 
Motherwit said:
They don’t provide any alternative to ‘the state’ to serve the common good. Just permanent anarchy which has never in the history of mankind made for good society.
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You are confusing several things. First, anarcho-capitalists with minarchists, both of whom refer to themselves as libertarians. Second, I can only conclude you are not familiar with libertarian theory from your statement that they provide an alternative. You may disagree with their alternative but that doesn’t mean they don’t offer one.
 
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Cathoholic said:
The false built-in presupposition that Motherwit knows what masks even are (an impossibility as they are not even attempted to be defined), AND that they are beneficial.

This in logic, is a form of appealing to your conclusion, to support your premise.

It is ipse dixit.
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I’m not a scientist but I believe the science and bolstered by the universal use of masks in so many different situations for 1000’s of years that we are aware of.

Cathoholic said:
Why is “curtailing freedom” an acceptable tradeoff
to only possibly postpone an infection?
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The real possibility of a vaccine coming is worth saving lives in the interim.
Cathoholic said:
Masks don’t PREVENT people from getting Corona virus. You know that right?
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As I said, I don’t believe that at all.
 
StudentMI said:
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Motherwit:
They don’t provide any alternative to ‘the state’ to serve the common good. Just permanent anarchy which has never in the history of mankind made for good society.
Click to expand...
You are confusing several things. First, anarcho-capitalists with minarchists, both of whom refer to themselves as libertarians. Second, I can only conclude you are not familiar with libertarian theory from your statement that they provide an alternative. You may disagree with their alternative but that doesn’t mean they don’t offer one.
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Apart from informing me of supposed ignorance there’s really nothing to reply to in this post.
 
Motherwit said:
Apart from informing me of supposed ignorance there’s really nothing to reply to in this post.
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You’re the one who said they don’t provide an alternative. That shows you’re not familiar with their thought. Again, you can disagree with their alternative but doesn’t mean they don’t provide one.

And please don’t use the term ‘anarchy’ to refer to the market place if that’s what you’re doing.
 
Was that because of public pressure on the governor or some change of heart he had?
 
Motherwit on libertarians . . .
They don’t provide any alternative to ‘the state’ to serve the common good.
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I can’t speak for “they” (the libertarians) but there are plenty of people who help providing for “the common good”.

I’m not sure why you think it needs to be libertarians versus government?

By the way. I think for the most part Government at least strives for the common good too.

But I would not reduce my paradigm down to Government versus anything ideologically (except when someone actually actively opposes the common good and wants to impliment intrinsic evils. Like abortion).
 
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tomarin said:
Was that because of public pressure on the governor or some change of heart he had?
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I don’t think public pressure does much. The places trying to make COVID restrictions also place the Governor didn’t get much support during his election. Not being part of his support base I don’t think he has much to loose.

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A judge told them to talk out first. The mayor of Atlanta said she was not making any compromises. The governor dropped the case. Later, he started to strongly encourage people to consider wearing masks.
 
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@StudentMI, what alternatives for the common good are they suggesting? As far as I am aware, right now, while waiting for a vaccine to arrive, the only things we seem to be able to do is distance and wear masks. What are some suggested alternatives? Thanks!
 
I was speaking more in general theory as that was what was being commented on. The alternative I meant was their vision of society. Like it or not they have a theory, quite detailed at that. I don’t personally agree with it but to dismiss them as not having an alternative or laying out an alternative is like saying Marxists just want to nationalize all private property and have no plan after that.
 
The matter of left & right is an issue regarding the 2 faces of the same coin, it only serves political identity & not so much for society as we are mixture of both.

Regarding the changes to our future world, it must be said that Globalization is being seen as the biggest contributor to the disruption. Capitalism has created a global village over the decades with the privatization of resources & industry that seeks ever cheaper labor & diminishing red tape.

All democracies & indeed all nations, wanting a part in the promise of wealth, worked towards the elimination of national industry & government corporations. Globalization took our companies off shore in search of cheaper production & minimized restrictions. I think TRUMP hit the nail on the head with his first address to the UN General Assembly 25 September 2018 where he said;

“We reject the ideology of globalism and accept the doctrine of patriotism.”

Patriotism is good but in this global environment it certainly seems like a step backwards. A form of re-nationalization to bring companies back home & integrate them back onto our soil. There is little doubt that tax dollars will be used to assist the privateers coupled with a loosening of legislation, especially regarding the environment & corporate law.

As for society in general we are already seeing a steep rise in the cost of living that will continue at a faster pace. Even with a vaccine life will not go back to pre-covid conditions, in fact we are already being asked to find the new covid normal & it may be forever.
 
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twf said:
Only in America is this a “left vs right” issue…and I find it truly bizarre.
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This country could turn a toasted marshmallow into a right-v-left issue. :roll_eyes:
KMC said:
This is a power grab. Special rules if you have a favored perspective, stricter rules if you don’t.
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I’ve been collecting stories about people in power retaining privileges for themselves that they won’t allow for the general populace. Pelosi’s haircut is the tip of the iceberg.
 
The Great Reset is about much more than health practices. It’s primarily concerned with property distribution and international socialism
 
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