Little sister just told me she's a lesbian

[Vincent90]

I think she’s scared to talk to her friend nun because “friend nun” might have a very specific set of recommendations for her, including the recommendation to cut off contact with her girlfriend. Indeed, this seems to me like a good recommendation. Your sister is probably, in some ways, afraid to ask for guidance from people who really know what they’re talking about, from mother and father figures.

I’m not sure what role you have with regard to that, but I do think – whether she’s right or wrong – your sister will have to face her fears.

(She knows very well that the nun will accept and embrace her, I would guess. But she might not accept and embrace her as a lesbian).

I understand that, I understand that she’d hate to not be embraced by someone who’s been there for her. I just made the suggestion, because she’s been there for her. I understand why my sister would be nervous…

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I understand that, I understand that she’d hate to not be embraced by someone who’s been there for her. I just made the suggestion, because she’s been there for her. I understand why my sister would be nervous…

Oh, the suggestion is definitely a good one!

 

[Vincent90]

Oh, the suggestion is definitely a good one!

…My sister agreed to talk to her…she said “I’ll tell her next time I’m in the hospital.” Oh well. Like I said, no point in forcing her.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes, well, there is a lot of stuff in textbooks that isn’t true, so You will learn as you get older that there’s a difference between education and indoctrination, however pretty the package might be.

I think Jenni Anne needs to ask for a tuition refund.

 

[Jenni_Anne]

I was quite satisfied with the class, actually. I also happen to know people who identify as gay and lesbian. I have worked with them and was even in a leadership position for a year for an organization which promotes tolerance on campus. I identify as pansexuel which most do not even know about. This means that neither biological sex nor gender identity have sway in who I may be attracted to. In my current faith there is no doctrine against this even if one acts on it. I understand that is different here within the Catholic church. I just have a different background and am trying to learn though in this case I feel mutual understanding may be best.
As far as the parents having the “right to know” as one person pointed out, the absolute worst thing you could do to your sister is to break her trust. At the age of 16 in most states she could take legal action to leave home if they were to find out and act in a way she disliked. I don’t think your parents would have a rash reaction, but she may fear one even if the fear is irrational.
Children need at least three adults who are NOT their parents whom they can confide in and know that secrets will be kept. This is what the DCF (Department of Children and Families) teaches anyone going into education of minors. It is taught in nearly every class taken to be a registered preschool teacher. It is also required for elementary, middle, and high school teachers to learn in the state of Florida. That being said, these adults are to act in their best interest when such confidences are given.
As for a comment directed at me regarding education versus indoctrination, I am a fairly liberal thinker in most cases. I have my personal views, but I also try to observe policy and science objectively so as to keep them secular for the general public. I trust that the education I am paying for is solid even if theories change over time. I am trying to maintain an open mind as I explore the church I was born into but not raised within. From my perspective, stating that a secular educational system was indoctrinating me feels offensive. I understand this was not the intention on your part though. I just felt that I should say it could be misconstrued that way by someone more easily swayed by emotional reading.
Also, I am a returning student. This means I could not attend university earlier in life and now in my thirties I am returning to better my situation and support myself. In fact, I left college to take care of my grandparents who had Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease respectively. I don’t regret putting my education on hold to be there for the pair who had always been there for me. So the quip regarding my age indicating I may be too young and naive could also have been perceived as negative or even insulting. Again, I know this was not the intention.
So far everyone on the forum has been kind and informative. I’ve yet to see anyone who was judgmental etc. This has been a sharp contrast to the Southern Baptist church in which I was raised which led me to turn to Wicca at fifteen in 1995. I know and trust it will stay this way as I learn. I simply want to share what I know and feel and compare perspectives before I make any life-altering decisions regarding my faith. My liberal opinions may occasionally disagree with others here, but that in no way means I don’t want to understand these points of view and learn how to better follow where my heart is leading.
With regards to this issue I am usually quite emotional and passionate. I’ve talked to too many youths who have tried to commit suicide because of the negative stigmas associated with homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgender identity. My first instinct is to prevent these bright young people from even considering taking their own lives. One such method of prevention is to accept that what is said in confidence should remain so. I have talked to kids as young as fourteen through outreach programs who were sure they wanted to die. Regardless of anything else, preserving not only their young lives, but their hope for the future I feel is something we can all agree on. Where we go from there may vary, but I do believe that we all love each other and want what is best for each other.
I hope to understand better so that I can continue to help these children learn to love their life and build their place in the world. It will likely always be something I volunteer my time to.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I’ve talked to too many youths who have tried to commit suicide because of the negative stigmas associated with homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgender identity. My first instinct is to prevent these bright young people from even considering taking their own lives.

This is to be encouraged, certainly.

However, I question your assumption that the association of suicide with homosexual self-identification is purely about negative stigmas. These stigmas have certainly been reduced over the past 30 years. But rates of suicide for homosexuals have not decreased, in the same time period. So the stigmas can’t be the only important causal factor here.

 

[anon1234567]

I’m pretty sure there is research that shows that sexual orientation can change throughout a persons life and google would probably bring it up, however I’d also say that it depends on the person of course and really I side more with first two posters (after the OP). It is not nice when people talk about you behind your back.

 

[Jenni_Anne]

This is to be encouraged, certainly.

However, I question your assumption that the association of suicide with homosexual self-identification is purely about negative stigmas. These stigmas have certainly been reduced over the past 30 years. But rates of suicide for homosexuals have not decreased, in the same time period. So the stigmas can’t be the only important causal factor here.

Among older adults you may be right. However the personal experience I’ve had with the children has been due to the stigmas and at times emotionally abusive reactions from the adults they trust in their lives. Parents who threw them out of their homes or called them terrible names I don’t dare to repeat. Some of them are bullied by classmates in much the same way. It is truly terrifying how our words can hurt others. As for the adults, I will look into those statistics. Again, my experience has been with youth outreach programs and so it is limited in that regard. There are also the local demographics of where I live to be considered. For example, I live in South Florida where there is a large community of support, but also a large population which is intolerant. Somewhere along the line must be a middle ground in which these children will no longer feel that death is the answer.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Among older adults you may be right. However the personal experience I’ve had with the children has been due to the stigmas and at times emotionally abusive reactions from the adults they trust in their lives. Parents who threw them out of their homes or called them terrible names I don’t dare to repeat. Some of them are bullied by classmates in much the same way. It is truly terrifying how our words can hurt others. As for the adults, I will look into those statistics. Again, my experience has been with youth outreach programs and so it is limited in that regard. There are also the local demographics of where I live to be considered. For example, I live in South Florida where there is a large community of support, but also a large population which is intolerant. Somewhere along the line must be a middle ground in which these children will no longer feel that death is the answer.

I suspect that this “middle ground” involves a major social change. If the churches gave same-sex attracted persons a viable option of celibacy, which respected the following three things, we would come a long way:

(1) Homosexual actions involving sexual contact are sinful.
(2) Attraction to sin is never shameful. Everyone is tempted.
(3) People fail sometimes. Homosexuals who fail are no worse than heterosexuals who fail.

The Church teaches these things, but quietly. It needs to be shouted from rooftops.

And Jenni Anne, even if you disagree with #1, I hope you realize how #1-#3 do give same-sex attracted people hope and a future.

 

[fcijrr1993]

There is a website called couragerc.net I believe that might be of some help to you. Your family will be in our prayers.

 

[Jenni_Anne]

I suspect that this “middle ground” involves a major social change. If the churches gave same-sex attracted persons a viable option of celibacy, which respected the following three things, we would come a long way:

(1) Homosexual actions involving sexual contact are sinful.
(2) Attraction to sin is never shameful. Everyone is tempted.
(3) People fail sometimes. Homosexuals who fail are no worse than heterosexuals who fail.

The Church teaches these things, but quietly. It needs to be shouted from rooftops.

And Jenni Anne, even if you disagree with #1, I hope you realize how #1-#3 do give same-sex attracted people hope and a future.

I agree with your sentiment to say the very least. Some churches, like the Southern Baptist and other evangelical types, don’t give this as an option and instead opt for name-calling and potentially dangerous “conversion therapy” which in most cases has actually worsened the psychological health of people who went through it. Some do come through feeling they have changed, but when younger people are subjected to it the suicide rate tends to increase. Often one place these kids feel neglected or unloved is within their church family. I personally think as you suspected that 1 is not entirely true. However the truth sounds loud and clear for both 2 and 3 with me. Everyone is tempted. I stated earlier that my current faith has no rules against homosexuality. It also has no rules against sexual acts outside of marriage. However it does have a very powerful law. And it harm none, do what thou will. This law is deceptively difficult to live by. Interpreting it with regard to homosexuality is tricky. Obviously it would be harmful to seek out the love of someone who by their faith views it as wrong. We also know that while the act of love is meant for procreation, human beings are one of the few species (of which there are exactly two) which have been known to use the act recreationally. This for us would mean that harm takes on many meanings. What is the intent? Is there actual love behind it? Are both participants healthy in body and mind? Are both participants willing? Is it the respectful thing to do for your body at this time? So many things are to be considered. In this respect I am finding that the Catholic church seems to lay out some ground rules to help make these judgments and remove the guesswork. This is a useful guide from what I can see.
The harm none rule in my current religion is not limited to actions either. It is also for our thoughts. We view thoughts as actions you haven’t done yet, or even prayers you haven’t made yet. For example, if I am driving and a speeding person cuts me off, my own thoughts will be judged. If I were to immediately wish the driver to be pulled over by an officer I am not thinking correctly. What if they are rushing to the hospital because their wife is giving birth? What if it is a parent picking up a child who is sick from school? What if the ticket is their family’s financial breaking point? That sort of thing. By changing my thought from the negative to perhaps “I hope they get where they’re going safely” I have wished, and in a small way prayed for the situation to work out for the best instead of wishing harm.
I know that if I do decide to go into a conversion process I will have reservations about the first of those three, but I could never disagree with your other very valid and very necessary points. Promiscuity is harmful to all. It confuses emotions. It makes people think that the physical is somehow the only means of expressing the emotional. There is a large hypocrisy within Wicca regarding promiscuity. We say we should not harm anyone, including ourselves, yet so many seem to use the lack of specific regulations regarding sexuality as an excuse to “let loose” I suppose.
I am enjoying finding our common ground, by the way. I thank you for your patience with what I do not yet understand, and the willingness to show me what you know.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree with your sentiment to say the very least. Some churches, like the Southern Baptist and other evangelical types, don’t give this as an option and instead opt for name-calling and potentially dangerous “conversion therapy” which in most cases has actually worsened the psychological health of people who went through it. Some do come through feeling they have changed, but when younger people are subjected to it the suicide rate tends to increase. Often one place these kids feel neglected or unloved is within their church family.

I personally think as you suspected that 1 is not entirely true. However the truth sounds loud and clear for both 2 and 3 with me. Everyone is tempted. I stated earlier that my current faith has no rules against homosexuality. It also has no rules against sexual acts outside of marriage. However it does have a very powerful law. “An it harm none, do what thou will.” This law is deceptively difficult to live by. Interpreting it with regard to homosexuality is tricky. Obviously it would be harmful to seek out the love of someone who by their faith views it as wrong. We also know that while the act of love is meant for procreation, human beings are one of the few species (of which there are exactly two) which have been known to use the act recreationally. This for us would mean that harm takes on many meanings. What is the intent? Is there actual love behind it? Are both participants healthy in body and mind? Are both participants willing? Is it the respectful thing to do for your body at this time? So many things are to be considered. In this respect I am finding that the Catholic church seems to lay out some ground rules to help make these judgments and remove the guesswork. This is a useful guide from what I can see.

The “harm none” rule in my current religion is not limited to actions either. It is also for our thoughts. We view thoughts as actions you haven’t done yet, or even prayers you haven’t made yet. For example, if I am driving and a speeding person cuts me off, my own thoughts will be judged. If I were to immediately wish the driver to be pulled over by an officer I am not thinking correctly. What if they are rushing to the hospital because their wife is giving birth? What if it is a parent picking up a child who is sick from school? What if the ticket is their family’s financial breaking point? That sort of thing. By changing my thought from the negative to perhaps “I hope they get where they’re going safely” I have wished, and in a small way prayed for the situation to work out for the best instead of wishing harm.

I know that if I do decide to go into a conversion process I will have reservations about the first of those three, but I could never disagree with your other very valid and very necessary points. Promiscuity is harmful to all. It confuses emotions. It makes people think that the physical is somehow the only means of expressing the emotional. There is a large hypocrisy within Wicca regarding promiscuity. We say we should not harm anyone, including ourselves, yet so many seem to use the lack of specific regulations regarding sexuality as an excuse to “let loose” I suppose.

I am enjoying finding our common ground, by the way. I thank you for your patience with what I do not yet understand, and the willingness to show me what you know.

Suggestion: Skip the purple, increase the size of your font, and use paragraphs. I also corrected your Wiccan precept which is not “And” but “An.” “An” means “If.”

 

[Jenni_Anne]

Suggestion: Skip the purple, increase the size of your font, and use paragraphs. I also corrected your Wiccan precept which is not “And” but “An.” “An” means “If.”

It depends on which source you use for the law. Some say An as you say but others say And. If either case it means if. In Wicca as with many other religions there are multiple churches and each has their own way of saying this. As for the purple, I just enjoy the color. I’m not sure which font size would be best though. The way it is formatted makes it difficult to guess for changing it as it all appears one size with just the code framing the text.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No, pretty sure it’s just people not understanding the actual writing. “And” does not mean “if.”

Wiccan Rede

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I am enjoying finding our common ground, by the way. I thank you for your patience with what I do not yet understand, and the willingness to show me what you know.

I’m glad to help you feel welcome here. God bless your journey!

And one thought: I think you’re right to seek for a place where people live up to the theories they profess. This is a good guide (though not the only guide) in finding a faith community in which you can grow.

 

[Eufrosnia]

Do you really think it is a red flag when parents aren’t the first ones a sixteen year old chooses to confide in when it comes to her sexual attractions? How long has it been since you actually were sixteen? Did you have any brothers or sisters? Even if your mother or father was your favorite confidante, surely you know that a typical teen might prefer to confide in a sibling without this being any evidence of a poor parent-child relationship.

Yes, I do think it is a red flag. When I was sixteen is irrelevant to this matter unless you assume that the current status of society is ok. Since I do not share the view that current social status is ok (the increased number of divorce, child shootings, child suicides, increases premarital sex between teenagers, unmarried pregnancies, lack of communication between parents and children would be evidence enough I think), I do standby the position that it is a red flag.

Her parents sometimes have a moral right to know what she has been up to, but they do not have a right to know her thoughts or every time she confides her feelings to someone else. They certainly don’t have a moral right to insist that all their children become informants for the parents. That expectation is over the top. The sister shared what she did with the implicit expectation that her brother would be discrete, even if she did not think to extract the explicit promise. She would have every right to be upset if he told her feelings to someone else and then claimed, “Well, you never made me promise not to tell anyone.” Telling them what she does is one thing–particularly if they are ever being lied to–but telling them about how she has told him she feels is something else. She deserves to expect he will keep that in confidence.

If she is 16 and we are speaking of the spiritual and physical well being of the person, then YES, the parents do have a right to know.

If this girl was starving and confided with you, would you not think the parents should be informed? Why is it different when her spiritual well being is on the line?

 

[Eufrosnia]

You shouldn’t tell anyone what your sister told you ( at least not yet). Try to have a conversation with her to see how she feels about it. She might only be experimenting sexually with the same sex. She might not be gay after all. everything is possible with teens nowadays.

I have a friend who used to date a lesbian girl. This girl was in her early 30s when they met and has NEVER being with a man before in her life. my friend is a devoted catholic, polite and loves to talk about God so she somehow liked him.They dated for couple year but had to end things after she became obsessed with my friend. She tells my friend that she never want to be with a girl again and she now realizes she likes man and will only be with a man.

Also pray for her and with her a lot. The devil is constantly testing us, we cannot let it defeat us, Never!

I am a bit appalled by the bolded part above. She may “only” be experimenting sexually? Sexual activity (including experimentation of it) is immoral outside of marriage. That is not just a simple matter.

 

[josh987654321]

Right now I’m really just in shock. I just laughed and frowned a little because I didn’t know how to react. She’s 16(I’m her 23 year old brother) she also said she’s been with a girl for over a year. She’s really girly…that’s part of the reason I’m so shocked. She prays…she’s really into her faith. She enjoys praying the rosary and learning about saints. I have no doubt she has faith in God. She used to want to be a nun…she’s been in the hospital alot for her kidneys, my parents always take her to a Catholic hospital and there’s a nun there that loves her…they sit and talk. My little sister really admires her. I thought about telling our brothers and sister that she’s gay but I really wouldn’t want to do that to her…I wouldn’t want to hurt her, she’s still my sister and I still love her. We’re not exceptionally close, so I don’t know why she chose to tell me. I reacted awkwardly…I don’t know if I should go talk to her or what. What would you do if you were in my situation?

As long as she knows that acting on her homosexual desires is immoral, there isn’t really much to worry about, just say “so what, if it’s not same sex attraction it would be some other temptation. There isn’t one human being that doesn’t suffer from immoral desires, not one, this is why we grow in temperance, so that we may forsake our immoral desires for Christ.” It’s only a worry when they tell you they have same sex attraction and that they plan or are already embracing that attraction. Than you would most likely need to help them, other than that, I don’t think it’s a huge deal. It’s good that she has strong role models like the Catholic Nun in her life.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Eufrosnia]

It depends on which source you use for the law. Some say An as you say but others say And. If either case it means if. In Wicca as with many other religions there are multiple churches and each has their own way of saying this. As for the purple, I just enjoy the color. I’m not sure which font size would be best though. The way it is formatted makes it difficult to guess for changing it as it all appears one size with just the code framing the text.

I think you have to realize that this is first and foremost a Catholic forum. So any advise should be given in consistency with Catholic thought rather than Wiccan or any other, yes?

Like what would happen if I started replying from a Nihilistic perspective? I can give a very coherent answer to the OP but it would be based on Nihilism so not of any value, yes?

So this is not to discourage you from posting. But I hope you will at least be careful that you do not present a non-Catholic position as a Catholic one. At least make it clear that as a Wiccan, this is what you believe. But even that may be inappropriate because this person is asking for answers from a Catholic POV. Not a general view. I am sure if that is what they wanted, they would have gone to Yahoo answers.

 

[EasterJoy]

No, pretty sure it’s just people not understanding the actual writing. “And” does not mean “if.”

Wiccan Rede

Wicca does not have a Pope, nor a Magesterium, and the Rede does not have a scholarly tradition of exegesis. People who have a knowledge of medieval English have dated the Rede to somewhere between 1964 and 1975, while others believe it to be somewhat older than that. Still, there is nothing that I know of in Wicca that defines a canon closed to later “revelation”, so what would stop a local group or an individual from making of it what they would based on their own lights, I wouldn’t know.

Since the OP presumably didn’t come to Catholic Answers for a Wiccan answer, the point is somewhat moot.