Little sister just told me she's a lesbian

[Prodigal_Son]

Not necessarily. :compcoff: I would similarly keep information about a sibling cutting themselves (so long as they’re definitely attempting to stop). I would tell parents when it involves impending physical harm to themselves or others, or an act leading to scandal.

In this case, I don’t believe that there is impending scandal. While she claims she’s “in a relationship”, she’s obviously hid it well enough that the original poster didn’t know anything about it.

Also, I respectfully disagree with your notion that compromising the trust between siblings is what ought to be done. In doing so, it breaks the sibling bond and leads to nothing but infighting :slapfight:, which I can also tell you from experience is never good. :stretcher:

OK, this post wins the smiley competition. :yup:

 

[Lamentation]

OK, this post wins the smiley competition. :yup:

It’s my attempt at conveying that I’m not angry, which is often how I am perceived without emoticons.

…that, and Catholic Answers has some pretty funny ones on here.

 

[Eufrosnia]

Not necessarily. :compcoff: I would similarly keep information about a sibling cutting themselves (so long as they’re definitely attempting to stop). I would tell parents when it involves impending physical harm to themselves or others, or an act leading to scandal.

In this case, I don’t believe that there is impending scandal. While she claims she’s “in a relationship”, she’s obviously hid it well enough that the original poster didn’t know anything about it.

Also, I respectfully disagree with your notion that compromising the trust between siblings is what ought to be done. In doing so, it breaks the sibling bond and leads to nothing but infighting :slapfight:, which I can also tell you from experience is never good. :stretcher:

I think you need to understand where I am coming from. I am not much interested in what you think. I am more interested in church teaching.

Now Church teaching makes it clear that Parents have a right and duty for the temporal and spiritual welfare of the children. The natural practice of society in temporal matters tells us that it is indeed the duty of ours to inform the parents when the child’s temporal welfare is in danger.

Now that is the temporal side of things. We as Christians are also MORE concerned about the spiritual well being. So in a matter like this where the person’s spiritual well being is in extreme danger, it is the responsibility of the person who has that information to present it to the parents.

This is not a matter of opinion but a reasonably deductive position from Church teaching.

So your formation that informs you to refrain from notifying the parents in a suicide attempt is in-fact wrong on your part (which I am sure many psychologists and counselors would agree with).

 

[Eufrosnia]

And you have not presented evidence that the view you are presenting is the Catholic view.

The quotation from the Catechism talks about parents educating children, not about the rights of parents over knowing the content of their children’s personal struggles. I do not deny that there may be some such rights. But you haven’t said what the scope and limits of these rights are.

Look, lets keep this very simple.

If your sibling of 16, told you that they are suffering from severe depression/ suicidal thoughts/ anorexia etc. for a year now, would you or would you not think it reasonable to notify the parents?

If your answer is that you do not see a need, then this discussion is over. You and I have far more irreconcilable differences than the scope of this thread.

Now if your answer is “YES certainly tell the parents”, then what makes it different in this case when the spiritual life of the person is in extreme danger?

Does this not show an implicit disregard or non-seriousness within you for spiritual matters? It seems to me that it directly follows that one should notify the parents in the case of spiritual danger to the child as well.

 

[Lamentation]

I think you need to understand where I am coming from. I am not much interested in what you think…

And that is exactly why you come off as abrasive.

I will not argue with you, I’ve made known what I would have done and that’s all I came to say.

I wish you the best of luck on your life’s journey, however.

 

[Eufrosnia]

And that is exactly why you come off as abrasive.

I will not argue with you, I’ve made known what I would have done and that’s all I came to say.

I wish you the best of luck on your life’s journey, however.

Thank you. In my defense, I did not mean to offend you but to state a valuable point that we sometimes miss in these forums. We can sometimes get caught up in giving our opinion or describing how we would personally do things.

But all of that is not important on a Catholic forum for a person seeking Catholic advise. The advise given would have to be grounded in Catholic teaching and not contradict it. In this sense, the answer would have to be more of a deductive position from Catholic teaching rather than an opinion. It may certainly be difficult to execute the act but it would be the just be the Catholic answer to it.

If a person were simply interested in mere opinion, then there is Yahoo answers and many other forums that do that after all. So this is why I am not much interested in mere opinions of how to act.

 

[ShanaA1984]

Personally I would rather hear something like this about my daughter FROM my daughter. Not 2nd hand from her brother or other sibling. and that is just my :twocents:

 

[Vincent90]

Well, she’s been hurting lately…our parents took her to the hospital, she’s been admitted. I wonder if she’ll tell the nun like she said she would…

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

My prayers for her and you as you have been given a heavy cross to bear. I still believe in my opinion I gave you earlier as I have read many that conflict. Jesus knew betrayal…that is how your sister would feel if you did not hold her issue in confidence.

 

[Vincent90]

My prayers for her and you as you have been given a heavy cross to bear. I still believe in my opinion I gave you earlier as I have read many that conflict. Jesus knew betrayal…that is how your sister would feel if you did not hold her issue in confidence.

Yeah, I told her when I talked to her the other day, that I wouldn’t tell. If I did tell, I know it’d just break her heart.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes, I do think it is a red flag. When I was sixteen is irrelevant to this matter unless you assume that the current status of society is ok. Since I do not share the view that current social status is ok (the increased number of divorce, child shootings, child suicides, increases premarital sex between teenagers, unmarried pregnancies, lack of communication between parents and children would be evidence enough I think), I do standby the position that it is a red flag.

If she is 16 and we are speaking of the spiritual and physical well being of the person, then YES, the parents do have a right to know.

If this girl was starving and confided with you, would you not think the parents should be informed? Why is it different when her spiritual well being is on the line?

Well of course I do not think that every time a child confides something to an adult that it ought to be reported back to the parents. There is a reason that the seal of confession extends even to minors. It is because there are times when the on-going willingness of the minor to confide what they are wrestling with outweighs the good that will come of reporting the minors thoughts to the parents. So while it is one thing for the confidant to caution the teen that they cannot hide things that the teen is doing from her parents, while it is certainly OK to encourage the teen to talk to her parents of her own accord about what she’s going through, it is quite another to keep her thoughts in confidence.

I say this because I have made it certain that my children have several people to talk to that they are comfortable with and that I have made it clear they can talk to without including me. If they can’t bring something to me or their dad, I want them to have somebody! How can they have that, if telling anyone whom I trust is the same as telling me, excepting that I get the second-hand version instead of their own? I don’t want my kids out there trying to cope with things beyond them alone or with the “wisdom” they can get from other minors because they are afraid of letting me find out. The only way I can have that is to make sure they know they have permission to choose to confide in a trustworthy adult other than me. I think letting go of that amount of control is more than worth it.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

So your formation that informs you to refrain from notifying the parents in a suicide attempt is in-fact wrong on your part (which I am sure many psychologists and counselors would agree with).

Cutting is usually not a suicide attempt. It is VERY common among teenagers.

Of course, extreme cases of cutting can be suicidal.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Look, lets keep this very simple.

If your sibling of 16, told you that they are suffering from severe depression/ suicidal thoughts/ anorexia etc. for a year now, would you or would you not think it reasonable to notify the parents?

If your answer is that you do not see a need, then this discussion is over. You and I have far more irreconcilable differences than the scope of this thread.

Now if your answer is “YES certainly tell the parents”, then what makes it different in this case when the spiritual life of the person is in extreme danger?

Does this not show an implicit disregard or non-seriousness within you for spiritual matters? It seems to me that it directly follows that one should notify the parents in the case of spiritual danger to the child as well.

First, I echo what EasterJoy said above. I would take situations on a case-by-case basis, but no, I would not always inform parents of a child’s depression or anorexia, if I thought that my action was breaking a confidence. As EasterJoy said, this could have a chilling effect of a young person’s future attempts to get help. Moreover, unless I know the parents well, for all I know, they could be part of the dynamic that is making the child suicidal.

Second, I am concerned that you claim that your view is a deduction from Catholic principles, and yet you have not given these principles (which would presumably principles about privacy, not education), and you have not shown how this is a deduction.

 

[Eufrosnia]

Well of course I do not think that every time a child confides something to an adult that it ought to be reported back to the parents. There is a reason that the seal of confession extends even to minors. It is because there are times when the on-going willingness of the minor to confide what they are wrestling with outweighs the good that will come of reporting the minors thoughts to the parents. So while it is one thing for the confidant to caution the teen that they cannot hide things that the teen is doing from her parents, while it is certainly OK to encourage the teen to talk to her parents of her own accord about what she’s going through, it is quite another to keep her thoughts in confidence.

There is also a reason why there is such a thing as seal of confession. The confession is made to the priest who listens in person of Christ. So the priest for all purposes cannot reveal any thing that has told to him during confession.

This is not the case with normal human interaction and neither is there any such seal unless explicitly made by oath. Even then, Christianity forbids making rash oaths. So what is your point here exactly?

I say this because I have made it certain that my children have several people to talk to that they are comfortable with and that I have made it clear they can talk to without including me. If they can’t bring something to me or their dad, I want them to have somebody! How can they have that, if telling anyone whom I trust is the same as telling me, excepting that I get the second-hand version instead of their own? I don’t want my kids out there trying to cope with things beyond them alone or with the “wisdom” they can get from other minors because they are afraid of letting me find out. The only way I can have that is to make sure they know they have permission to choose to confide in a trustworthy adult other than me. I think letting go of that amount of control is more than worth it.

I am really not sure what you mean here. Please take a look at my post here and let me know what you feel is the objection you have

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10902842&postcount=84

 

[Eufrosnia]

Cutting is usually not a suicide attempt. It is VERY common among teenagers.

Of course, extreme cases of cutting can be suicidal.

Oh I see. Well is this something you are stating as a certified psychologist or giving us your 2 cents from anecdotal experience? Teenagers do not commonly “cut”. Such records of teenagers commonly “cutting” themselves is unheard of in history.

 

[Eufrosnia]

First, I echo what EasterJoy said above. I would take situations on a case-by-case basis, but no, I would not always inform parents of a child’s depression or anorexia, if I thought that my action was breaking a confidence. As EasterJoy said, this could have a chilling effect of a young person’s future attempts to get help. Moreover, unless I know the parents well, for all I know, they could be part of the dynamic that is making the child suicidal.

Second, I am concerned that you claim that your view is a deduction from Catholic principles, and yet you have not given these principles (which would presumably principles about privacy, not education), and you have not shown how this is a deduction.

Look, there is no such thing as confidence between you and a child, do you understand that? There is no explicit oath that you have taken to keep such silence. In the event that you did make such an oath, that too is rash and forbidden by Church teaching. Do you understand that?

So as far as this conversation goes, there is no need for a case by case basis. There is no such thing as keeping information that is critical for the spiritual or temporal well being of a child from the parents based on KEEPING CONFIDENCE. Why? Because such a scenario is already immoral in that you have sworn a rash oath.

There is also no such thing as a right to privacy to engage in immoral conduct for anyone. The parents have a RIGHT to take part in the spiritual formation of the child.

If someone told you, assuming your good confidence, that they are planing to murder someone you love and have been doing so for a year now, would you not notify the authorities? So please answer what is different in this scenario when it happens to be that a person is heading deeper down a spiritual hole.

It just seems to me like you have a great fear of parents and do not understand the parental rights given by God.

 

[EasterJoy]

There is also a reason why there is such a thing as seal of confession. The confession is made to the priest who listens in person of Christ. So the priest for all purposes cannot reveal any thing that has told to him during confession.

This is not the case with normal human interaction and neither is there any such seal unless explicitly made by oath. Even then, Christianity forbids making rash oaths. So what is your point here exactly?

I am really not sure what you mean here. Please take a look at my post here and let me know what you feel is the objection you have

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10902842&postcount=84

My point is that I do not think it in the best interest of our children to tell them that they may not ever keep secrets from us or to tell those other adults they trust that we expect them to turn over any and all “intelligence” they receive about our children to us. That is begging for a young person to maintain secrecy when what they ought to do is to seek counsel from someone older. Instead, we have talked to them about adults they can trust if they have something they need to talk about that they don’t feel they can come to us about. Sure, I’d rather they talk to me, but I know that they will sometimes not initially want to do that.

What I don’t want is to have them feel they have to either come out to us or go it alone, that is my point.

 

[EasterJoy]

Look, there is no such thing as confidence between you and a child, do you understand that? There is no explicit oath that you have taken to keep such silence. In the event that you did make such an oath, that too is rash and forbidden by Church teaching. Do you understand that?

So as far as this conversation goes, there is no need for a case by case basis. There is no such thing as keeping information that is critical for the spiritual or temporal well being of a child from the parents based on KEEPING CONFIDENCE. Why? Because such a scenario is already immoral in that you have sworn a rash oath.

There is also no such thing as a right to privacy to engage in immoral conduct for anyone. The parents have a RIGHT to take part in the spiritual formation of the child.

If someone told you, assuming your good confidence, that they are planing to murder someone you love and have been doing so for a year now, would you not notify the authorities? So please answer what is different in this scenario when it happens to be that a person is heading deeper down a spiritual hole.

It just seems to me like you have a great fear of parents and do not understand the parental rights given by God.

What is rash is equating attraction to someone of the same sex with a concrete plan to murder someone.

Keep in mind: we are not talking about concealing bad acts or a conspiracy or plan to commit bad acts, but with letting the child share their* thoughts and feelings* in strict confidence with those they choose. There is a big difference.

At any rate, as soon as the child sees you feel no inclination to keep their confidences, well of course they will not choose you to confide in. Would you rather they only feel free to share their confidences with people who think their immoral attractions are entirely good and natural? It is not as if there is no one besides her brother that the OP’s sister could choose to talk to. Let’s be careful about which corner we paint her into, don’t you think?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Oh I see. Well is this something you are stating as a certified psychologist or giving us your 2 cents from anecdotal experience? Teenagers do not commonly “cut”. Such records of teenagers commonly “cutting” themselves is unheard of in history.

No, you’re right, it’s a quite new phenomenon. I taught high school for a number of years, and every year I had probably about 10 students (out of 130) that I suspected of cutting. If that’s the number I suspect, the number actually doing it is probably much more. Here’s a source:

Because it so often occurs in private, it is very difficult to identify one or more discrete self-injurer “profiles.” Unless being treated for related conditions, such as depression or anxiety, detecting self-injurious individuals can be very difficult. Thus, most studies of self-injury have relied on samples in clinical settings being treated for other disorders (Brodsky et al., 1995). The few studies which have been conducted in U.S. community samples of young adults and adolescents are limited by small convenience-based samples and vary in estimates of self-injury prevalence from 4% to 38% percent (Briere & Gil, 1998; Favazza, 1996; Gratz, Conrad, & Roemer, 2002; Muehlenkamp & Guiterrez, 2004). A 2006 representative study of two universities showed a 17% lifetime prevalence rate with about 11% indicating repeat self-injury (Whitlock et al., 2006) and recent studies of high school populations in the US and Canada consistently show a 13 to 24% prevalence rate (Laye-Gindhu; & Schonert-Reichl, 2005; Muehlenkamp & Gutierrez, 2004; Muehlenkamp & Gutierrez, 2007; Ross & Health, 2002).

Most studies find that self-injury is often undertaken as a means of avoiding suicide. Perhaps one of the most paradoxical features of self-injury is that most of those who practice self-injury report doing so as a means of relieving pain or of feeling something in the presence of nothing.

crpsib.com/whatissi.asp

Considering that the modern society has far more broken homes than, essentially, any society in recorded history, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the cause of the cutting epidemic.

 

[Eufrosnia]

My point is that I do not think it in the best interest of our children to tell them that they may not ever keep secrets from us or to tell those other adults they trust that we expect them to turn over any and all “intelligence” they receive about our children to us. That is begging for a young person to maintain secrecy when what they ought to do is to seek counsel from someone older. Instead, we have talked to them about adults they can trust if they have something they need to talk about that they don’t feel they can come to us about. Sure, I’d rather they talk to me, but I know that they will sometimes not initially want to do that.

What I don’t want is to have them feel they have to either come out to us or go it alone, that is my point.

If the child has to seek someone else than their parents, that is already a red flag. Do you understand that?

So the correct thing is not to encourage and make sure the door is open to already distorted options like speaking to someone else. No. The correct thing for you to be concerned about is forming a healthy relationship with your children so that they first and foremost turn and reveal things to YOU. If that has not happened, something as gone wrong. You are already naturalizing this situation and thinking of what to do next. But since this situation is not natural and non-ideal to begin with, you cannot speak of supporting the distorted options available at that point.

The child has revealed it already. So there is no problem here about them not revealing it. Now is the time to act i.e. notify the parents of the information. Just sitting with it when that is detrimental to the child’s spiritual well being is immoral.

Also, please answer my post that I linked. I would like to see a counter-argument in point form if possible.