Little sister just told me she's a lesbian

[Eufrosnia]

No, you’re right, it’s a quite new phenomenon. I taught high school for a number of years, and every year I had probably about 10 students (out of 130) that I suspected of cutting. If that’s the number I suspect, the number actually doing it is probably much more. Here’s a source:

So your point is that we regularize the practice?

Perhaps if teachers in your school were more prompt in acting, such practices would not be so prevalent. When a child needs to “cut themselves” to get attention from others, that is a sign that something is very wrong with the parent-child relationship and the parents should be told about it immediately. I assume you are one of the teachers who kept these to yourself and pondered on it instead?

Considering that the modern society has far more broken homes than, essentially, any society in recorded history, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the cause of the cutting epidemic.

Sure, but teachers like you end up regularizing these broken homes. Instead of contacting parents and getting them involved with the welfare of the child, you are letting it continue. That is BAD. Not just from a Christian perspective but even from a purely practical perspective.

 

[Vincent90]

Yeah, they’ve had sex…just found that out.

 

[Eufrosnia]

Yeah, they’ve had sex…just found that out.

Please inform your parents. Get them involved.

Your current situation may even allow you to act as a mediator between your parents and sister. But it should be clear to you that you cannot do much on your own. She is merely your sister and she does not need to obey you.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

What is rash is equating attraction to someone of the same sex with a concrete plan to murder someone.

Exactly.

Sexual sin is not the end of the world. There are thousands of people on this site that have very sad stories about our sexual sins, and the repentance that we were brought to. But notice that the sin was not the end of our stories! You seem to think that someone’s becoming an open lesbian would somehow close them off from God’s grace in a semi-permanent way.

Now, I agree that we don’t want her to embrace her desires and pursue them. But we also don’t want her to harden her heart to everyone around her. If we were playing the short game, we would push hard to free her from sin, and risk alienating her. But we’ve got to play the long game.

As for the claim that there is no such thing as a confidence with a person under 18, this is clearly not Catholic teaching, since Catholicism does not consider 18 a magical age where a person fundamentally changes. But suppose we call a sixteen year old a “child”. Even then, I don’t know where you get the idea that the Church teaches there are no binding confidences with children. You have yet to cite a Catholic authority who addresses this particular claim.

And enough with the oaths talk – Jesus explicitly told us never to take oaths, so I think that isn’t at issue here.

 

[Eufrosnia]

What is rash is equating attraction to someone of the same sex with a concrete plan to murder someone.

Keep in mind: we are not talking about concealing bad acts or a conspiracy or plan to commit bad acts, but with letting the child share their* thoughts and feelings* in strict confidence with those they choose. There is a big difference.

At any rate, as soon as the child sees you feel no inclination to keep their confidences, well of course they will not choose you to confide in. Would you rather they only feel free to share their confidences with people who think their immoral attractions are entirely good and natural? It is not as if there is no one besides her brother that the OP’s sister could choose to talk to. Let’s be careful about which corner we paint her into, don’t you think?

The child is spiritually destroying herself. It just seems to me like you don’t seem to really feel the impact of spiritual destruction as much and seems to give more weight to temporal destruction. That to me is already problematic and shows an incorrect understanding of Christianity.

 

[EasterJoy]

If the child has to seek someone else than their parents, that is already a red flag. Do you understand that?

So the correct thing is not to encourage and make sure the door is open to already distorted options like speaking to someone else. No. The correct thing for you to be concerned about is forming a healthy relationship with your children so that they first and foremost turn and reveal things to YOU. If that has not happened, something as gone wrong. You are already naturalizing this situation and thinking of what to do next. But since this situation is not natural and non-ideal to begin with, you cannot speak of supporting the distorted options available at that point.

The child has revealed it already. So there is no problem here about them not revealing it. Now is the time to act i.e. notify the parents of the information. Just sitting with it when that is detrimental to the child’s spiritual well being is immoral.

Also, please answer my post that I linked. I would like to see a counter-argument in point form if possible.

I read your post the first time you posted it. I think you’re drawing a false analogy because you’re equating an attraction with a positive plan to commit bad acts. They are not the same thing. A sixteen-year-old who is attracted to a married 25-year old, for instance, would be different than a 16 year old who was actively pursuing a married 25-year-old. One is an attraction, not acted upon, and the other is a plan to commit a serious sin. They are two different things. Neither is anyone here saying that the OP could not encourage his sister to tell their parents herself. Do you think someone with homosexual feelings is never chaste? Talk about rash judgment.

I am also getting very tired of your repeated insinuations that I don’t have a healthy relationship with my children or that I’ve abdicated my responsibilities as a parent. Has it occurred to you that my willingness to give my children the impression that I don’t expect to control their every thought might make them more likely to confide in me, and not less? Sorry, you may think of the person who’s going to dictate to you what you have to do with a dilemma you are wrestling with as *your *first choice of a confidante. When I’m wrestling with something, the person who’s going to tell the whole world about it and try to dictate what decision I ought to make is not my first choice of confidante. Why would a 16 year old be different? I think my children are more likely to talk to me not just now, but also when they’re 25 and 35 and 45. That is the goal, don’t you think?

It is NOT a red flag when a sixteen year old feels they have adults other than their parents to confide in. That is a GOOD thing! It is such a good thing that experts correlate a child’s feeling that they have many people to confide in with a greater chance that they will report inappropriate sexual behavior towards them. The child who can’t tell anyone anything without knowing with certainty that it will get back to their parents isn’t necessarily more likely to go straight to the parents as a result. They are, instead, more likely to keep the matter to themselves and to try to handle it themselves. I don’t see how putting them in that spot ought to automatically be presumed to be superior parenting. It certainly doesn’t fit my experience with teens, both as a teen and as an adult.

 

[Eufrosnia]

Exactly.

Sexual sin is not the end of the world. There are thousands of people on this site that have very sad stories about our sexual sins, and the repentance that we were brought to. But notice that the sin was not the end of our stories! You seem to think that someone’s becoming an open lesbian would somehow close them off from God’s grace in a semi-permanent way.

Now, I agree that we don’t want her to embrace her desires and pursue them. But we also don’t want her to harden her heart to everyone around her. If we were playing the short game, we would push hard to free her from sin, and risk alienating her. But we’ve got to play the long game.

As for the claim that there is no such thing as a confidence with a person under 18, this is clearly not Catholic teaching, since Catholicism does not consider 18 a magical age where a person fundamentally changes. But suppose we call a sixteen year old a “child”. Even then, I don’t know where you get the idea that the Church teaches there are no binding confidences with children. You have yet to cite a Catholic authority who addresses this particular claim.

And enough with the oaths talk – Jesus explicitly told us never to take oaths, so I think that isn’t at issue here.

I am not sure how to break this to you. There is no such thing as confidence between any two persons to the level you speak of unless there has been some OATH. So for all purposes, if some information is known that can save a person or persons from spiritual or temporal destruction, that information must be revealed to the authorities in charge. In the case of a child, the authority is the PARENT.

Now Jesus said never to take oaths but here you are acting like every conversation carries an unsung oath.

 

[Eufrosnia]

I read your post the first time you posted it. I think you’re drawing a false analogy because you’re equating an attraction with a positive plan to commit bad acts. They are not the same thing. A sixteen-year-old who is attracted to a married 25-year old, for instance, would be different than a 16 year old who was actively pursuing a married 25-year-old. One is an attraction, not acted upon, and the other is a plan to commit a serious sin. They are two different things. Neither is anyone here saying that the OP could not encourage his sister to tell their parents herself.

I am also getting very tired of your repeated insinuations that I don’t have a healthy relationship with my children or that I’ve abdicated my responsibilities as a parent. Has it occurred to you that my willingness to give my children the impression that I don’t expect to control their every thought might make them more likely to confide in me, and not less? Sorry, you may think of the person who’s going to dictate to you what you have to do with a dilemma you are wrestling with as *your *first choice of a confidante. When I’m wrestling with something, the person who’s going to tell the whole world about it and try to dictate what decision I ought to make is not my first choice of confidante. Why would a 16 year old be different? I think my children are more likely to talk to me not just now, but also when they’re 25 and 35 and 45. That is the goal, don’t you think?

It is NOT a red flag when a sixteen year old feels they have adults other than their parents to confide in. That is a GOOD thing! It is such a good thing that experts correlate a child’s feeling that they have many people to confide in with a greater chance that they will report inappropriate sexual behavior towards them. The child who can’t tell anyone anything without knowing with certainty that it will get back to their parents isn’t necessarily more likely to go straight to the parents as a result. They are, instead, more likely to keep the matter to themselves and to try to handle it themselves. I don’t see how putting them in that spot ought to automatically be presumed to be superior parenting. It certainly doesn’t fit my experience with teens, both as a teen and as an adult.

Attraction to the same sex is nothing different from feeling murderous inclinations toward another. Both are just inclinations toward sin. Both are dangerous because the act they are inclined towards are gravely disordered. And yes, both murder and homosexual acts are Gravely disordered acts.

Oh and btw, who are these so called “experts”? You should also keep in mind that correlation is not causation. So that is not the most conclusive evidence for whatever it is you wish to say.

Bottom line here is that one cannot simply offshore ones parenting failure to encouraging children to talk to other strangers about their problems. That is a red flag.

Now why are we debating this when the OP has already revealed that the sister has had SEX?

 

[EasterJoy]

I am not sure how to break this to you. There is no such thing as confidence between any two persons to the level you speak of unless there has been some OATH. So for all purposes, if some information is known that can save a person or persons from spiritual or temporal destruction, that information must be revealed to the authorities in charge. In the case of a child, the authority is the PARENT.

Now Jesus said never to take oaths but here you are acting like every conversation carries an unsung oath.

OK, so we know that if we want to share our thoughts or feelings to someone with the expectation that our disclosure will be kept in confidence, we shouldn’t tell you, because you think that this means we’ll expect you to keep it a secret when we disclose our intention to murder somebody or steal their spouses or rob their store. Fair enough. We’ll find somebody else.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

So your point is that we regularize the practice?

Huh? Are you being cruel to me or are you just incapable of reading what I wrote? When on earth did I defend the practice of cutting? I think it is an awful thing.

Perhaps if teachers in your school were more prompt in acting, such practices would not be so prevalent. When a child needs to “cut themselves” to get attention from others, that is a sign that something is very wrong with the parent-child relationship and the parents should be told about it immediately. I assume you are one of the teachers who kept these to yourself and pondered on it instead?

There is something called actionable evidence. If I had actionable evidence, I did something about it. If I did not, I did nothing. To act on a mere suspicion is a very dangerous practice.

And once again, you are crossing a line, and assuming something about me without an ounce of evidence. Please apologize for your presumptions about me.

Sure, but teachers like you end up regularizing these broken homes. Instead of contacting parents and getting them involved with the welfare of the child, you are letting it continue. That is BAD. Not just from a Christian perspective but even from a purely practical perspective.

If you had taught in the school I taught in, I expect that you would not have been *aware *of the troubles in the lives of your students, so that you could get them help. They would have known that you would tell anything and everything they said to you to their parents. (I am not implying that students told me they were cutting, but things that they did tell me made me suspicious). But their parents were often the source of their problems.

 

[Eufrosnia]

OK, so we know that if we want to share our thoughts or feelings to someone with the expectation that our disclosure will be kept in confidence, we shouldn’t tell you, because you think that this means we’ll expect you to keep it a secret when we disclose our intention to murder somebody or steal their spouses or rob their store. Fair enough. We’ll find somebody else.

Nobody else should keep whatever it is that you say a secret knowing that disclosing that information to a particular party can save you or someone else from temporal or spiritual disaster. That is Catholic teaching.

The children are the primary responsibility of parents. Not yours, not mine, not the school teachers, brother or sister, or priest. That is why naturally, anyone else after spotting something wrong with a child, first informs the parents.

How you still feel that you can argue against this is beyond me.

 

[EasterJoy]

Attraction to the same sex is nothing different from feeling murderous inclinations toward another. Both are just inclinations toward sin. Both are dangerous because the act they are inclined towards are gravely disordered. And yes, both murder and homosexual acts are Gravely disordered acts.

Oh and btw, who are these so called “experts”? You should also keep in mind that correlation is not causation. So that is not the most conclusive evidence for whatever it is you wish to say.

Bottom line here is that one cannot simply offshore ones parenting failure to encouraging children to talk to other strangers about their problems. That is a red flag.

Now why are we debating this when the OP has already revealed that the sister has had SEX?

Oh. My. Heavens. Same-sex attraction or the temptation to commit fornication or adultery is nothing different from having homicidal tendencies. If your child is tempted to sleep in and miss Sunday Mass, is that the same as wanting to kill someone in cold blood, too? Since they’re all mortal sins, it’s all the same, right?

Be sure to tell your children that. When they feel sexual temptation, you’re sure to be the first person they confide in!!

 

[Eufrosnia]

Huh? Are you being cruel to me or are you just incapable of reading what I wrote? When on earth did I defend the practice of cutting? I think it is an awful thing.

There is something called actionable evidence. If I had actionable evidence, I did something about it. If I did not, I did nothing. To act on a mere suspicion is a very dangerous practice.

And once again, you are crossing a line, and assuming something about me without an ounce of evidence. Please apologize for your presumptions about me.

If you had taught in the school I taught in, I expect that you would not have been *aware *of the troubles in the lives of your students, so that you could get them help. They would have known that you would tell anything and everything they said to you to their parents. (I am not implying that students told me they were cutting, but things that they did tell me made me suspicious). But their parents were often the source of their problems.

IF parents are the source of their problems, it was your responsibility to talk to them and inform them about the issues that were causing problems. Merely sitting by and making yourself the “new parent” that the children are to confide in is unacceptable.

 

[EasterJoy]

How you still feel that you can argue against this is beyond me.

Me, too. When I have a conversation with a stone wall, it doesn’t usually last this long.

 

[EasterJoy]

IF parents are the source of their problems, it was your responsibility to talk to them and inform them about the issues that were causing problems. Merely sitting by and making yourself the “new parent” that the children are to confide in is unacceptable.

Now it’s our responsibility to be the referee who decides whether someone else is a sufficiently competent parent, too? My, that level of duty must keep a person rather busy, hmmm?

This has gone on long enough. Adios…

 

[Eufrosnia]

Oh. My. Heavens. Same-sex attraction or the temptation to commit fornication or adultery is nothing different from having homicidal tendencies. If your child is tempted to sleep in and miss Sunday Mass, is that the same as wanting to kill someone in cold blood, too? Since they’re all mortal sins, it’s all the same, right?

Be sure to tell your children that. When they feel sexual temptation, you’re sure to be the first person they confide in!!

I think you have drunk the cool-aid of our society a bit too much. Homosexual activities are indeed gravely disordered. Why do you think God destroyed an entire city for it?

In the words of St. Paul from Romans

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error. – (Romans 1:24-27)

So according to St. Paul (not me), one of the end results of a society that rebels against God is this confusion. Your society has just normalized it so much to you that you see it as not that big of a deal.

 

[Sneaux]

IF parents are the source of their problems, it was your responsibility to talk to them and inform them about the issues that were causing problems. Merely sitting by and making yourself the “new parent” that the children are to confide in is unacceptable.

Not everyone has wonderful and understanding parents. Some parents blow up over the little things, imagine how they’d blow up over something like this? My parents blow up over tiny things, I go to my sister, she’s understanding. Maybe this girl feels the same way about her brother. Maybe she knows that he’s still going to love her, and treat her the same as before, where as her parents may not.

 

[Eufrosnia]

Now it’s our responsibility to be the referee who decides whether someone else is a sufficiently competent parent, too? My, that level of duty must keep a person rather busy, hmmm?

This has gone on long enough. Adios…

Well you have said that you are done speaking to me to only reply back to me at a later time. So I am not so sure until I see it that this is your actual “Adios”…

 

[Eufrosnia]

Not everyone has wonderful and understanding parents. Some parents blow up over the little things, imagine how they’d blow up over something like this? My parents blow up over tiny things, I go to my sister, she’s understanding. Maybe this girl feels the same way about her brother. Maybe she knows that he’s still going to love her, and treat her the same as before, where as her parents may not.

So instead of abandoning the actual sinful behavior, she wants someone who cannot really say anything against it. This is not just kids who do this but even adults do this too. Problem with both is that they are just digging a big hole for themselves.

Parents get mad because they care more than anyone as to what happens to their kids. Kids misunderstand it as them just blowing up. No one blows up over things that do not matter to them. That is why other people are usually very casual about anything kids have to say.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Well you have said that you are done speaking to me to only reply back to me at a later time. So I am not so sure until I see it that this is your actual “Adios”…

Look back at the thread. EasterJoy did no such thing.