Living with a Jehovah witness

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Hi, Tom!

You are correct; (just check the wikilinks); it seems that I was confusing the newer “monarchs” can marry Catholics with the 1826 emancipation where Irish Catholics were allowed to hold most parliament offices.

…and yeah, I don’t follow politics so I thought that the big deal was about supreme court nominee–now you say that most supreme court justices are Catholics? So how are they imposing their belief on abortion and same sex union (get it? 🙂 )?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
No, you are not being guided by the evil one. Unfortunately, the Society has created this misconception that anything that contradicts their teachings is of Satan. When you think about it it’s rather ingenious because they have offered their followers a very easy and argument free way to avoid reading or watching anything that is viewed as Satanic in origin. It’s similar to labeling someone a liar by mere association, without ever having to prove that the person actually lied.

It’s understandably difficult for your husband to consider the real possibility that what the Watchtower has been saying is wrong. To consider this option means having to leave family and friends and severing relationships that are very dear to him. One also can’t deny that the Society’s teachings are well thought out and on the surface appear to be true. It’s only after digging deeper into their doctrines that you find them to be anything but. Sadly, by the time a brother or sister of the Kingdom Hall is confronted with these questions, their faith has already taken root into the Watchtower’s soil. Uprooting them from this belief system can be long and painful and for many the heartache is too much to bear.

It sounds like your husband doesn’t want to confront any of the sources or material that you wish to share with him. Early on I got the impression that he was willing to engage and discuss the Society’s teachings and how they compared with the Catholic Church. Now it seems like he has resorted to attacking the character of the Church by trying to shift your focus to the sinful actions of its members. He may feel that he is unable to disprove or refute your arguments and the advice he’s receiving from his congregation may be to just stop discussing the matter and be content in knowing that the Church is evil because some of its past members were less than holy.

Instead of trying to debate scripture or analyze dates and timetables, maybe it’ll be more beneficial if you just talk to him and ask him to explain what about the Society’s teachings give him comfort. Why does he feel at home in the Kingdom Hall and what keeps him coming back week after week? At least this way it gives him the opportunity to speak from his heart and not recite Watchtower and Awake reading material. Plus you may be able to pick up on something that he’s never revealed to you before.

Then maybe you can share what gives you comfort and hope and the reasons why the Catholic Church has become more appealing to you. This will open up a meaningful dialogue between you two and nobody has to feel attacked.
 
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Thank you Crusader13,
We are having some really hard times. I mentioned to him yesterday that I wanted to start taking my sons to church with me. He said no. He said that that would confuse them and that they might turn atheists. He told me this over and over when I over and over told him that they had mentioned that they would like me to teach them my faith. So when I finally gave in and said " ok fine I won’t take them with me, you can keep taking them with you but I will be reading them my daily Bible verse and if they have any questions I will answer them" when I said that he said you know what I’m not going to confuse them so I will no longer study with them, take them preaching, or take them to the hall with me. I told him that that’s not what I meant. I said “you can still take them like you had been doing but I just wanted to be able to also teach them my faith my love for God.” He didn’t have that I went to church and spoke with a sister there. I really poured out my concerns and feelings to her and she was wonderful and listened. I had been contemplating leaving but I don’t want to do that to my kids but then again it’s so tough and he makes it seem that it has been going on since I started to go back to church. I also feel like the JWs prefer men as my husband doesn’t mind that I take and teach the girls but won’t let me take or teach the boys. To which he claims that it’s because the girls haven’t chosen and the boys have. The boys are little kids 8 nd 10. Can theyvreally choose. That night since I still wanted to teach them my faith I saw nothing wrong with us both teaching them. He decided to tell the boys. They were serious, then he asked them for a hug as he cried and then they cried. He walked out and I asked the boys if they wanted to talk. They mentioned how they liked going to the hall because it was in Spanish and that way they could talk to their grandma because they were learning Spanish there and how he my younger one had made a friend and was going to miss him, how that was the only time that they got to spend with my husband and that he would sit next to them and pay attention to them, how they were excited to go preaching. I felt horrible, again I was the monster and had made my husband and my children miserable so I told them that they could keep going with and that I would not ask to take them to church with me but that if they ever had a doubt or question to not be scared to ask me. I messed the email up I had put it in two parts but I didn’t remove them right so in the continued there is another part that I will explain if needed
 
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He came inside and told me that his dad and elder told him that I had every right to take the boys to church with me and that he had a responsibility as head of the house to teach them si he would continue teaching them. Then he proceeded to drill me telling me the Bible teaches him everything and that he’s the better person that that’s why he knows it’s the truth and to look at how I act, I don’t act like the Bible says I should. I tell him I strive to be good but that I’m not perfect and to that he says that that’s just an excuse and to look at how he’s changed but I just see that he tries to push me into joining and I can never do anything right (I’ve never pushed him to go to church with me or study Catholicism). I get this fear over me when he comes home from work or when he just wants to converse. He has said he will never be Catholic because of the killings the Catholics have done and that it’s just unbiblical and many things like celebrating birthdays is also unbiblical and holidays and supporting the troops and how we believe in hell (to which he has the wrong idea as to what we believe but won’t listen to me when I want to explain it) and purgatory and the trinity and the list goes on. Please pray for him everyone pray for my children too. I thank everyone that has helped me understand and even though I don’t reply to everyone know that I am thankful for your (name removed by moderator)ut, it’s just I hardly get any sleep, I have to read and type here in secret or there will be a fight if he finds out, I have little baby that wakes in the middle of the night, a toddler, two older ones and constant fights that take up a lot of time plus my duties as a house wife. So please don’t think I don’t care, I’m just overwhelmed at the moment and I can only vent right now. Thank you for taking the time to read and to reply. I appreciate the love. God bless you all always
 
HI, Tom!

Thank you for the information; I always assumed that ‘Catholics need not apply’ was the norm. Now, if a judge professes to be Catholic but still supports abortion and homosexuality, how is that an impediment to the court? Further, if a decision (law) was established under false pretense (as abortion being health care and science not being able to determine when life begins because a human person could well conceive a horse or a cow rather than a human being [yeah, a slight facetious]) how is revisiting and correcting it not conductive to upholding the premise of the court?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Tom, could you not distinguish a theme from a team?

Demonstrate, through factual evidence, when the Catholic Church Taught that her members must find all people in the world to be evil? Show where the culture of the Church separate anyone from their families or from society.

The one Teaching of the Church that comes close to what you purport is the fight against heresies–which is maintained even today.

But even Luther was not excommunicated on day one!

You sound a little like Obama when he took the presidency: comparing the oppression of US females to that of other females across the world (‘no right to vote vs. the male’s right to kill the female’).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Sadly, you caught yourself in that net of confusion… most people promise that a Catholic spouse will be able to bring their children up in the Catholic Faith–that’s the bait; then when reality hits the turmoil begins–that’s the switch.

Catholics are at the losing end because most non-Catholic religions/sects are proactive and aggressive… but not overtly; it is like those rivers that belie their destructive power by seeming calm and gentle and sweet… once a person falls in he/she is out of their element.

What you’ve described is the typical power play. You lose. Your husband has all the big guns: power (you are not his equal), persuasion (anything that you initiate or attempt is wrong and evil) control (your children are manipulated to follow through not because they understand or believe in the cult’s religiosity but because of the amenities it provides: an environment with the grandmother, a common language, sharing time with their dad–males are attracted to emulate their fathers; yet, you lose again, because siblings emulate their siblings–the girls will eventually reason out that they do not want to lose their brothers’ and father’s affection).

I pray that you do not succumb to this horrific experience. That you retain your loyalty to God, in His Church. That the Holy Spirit Bless you with abundant Faith and Grace so that your Catholic example can win your children’s affection and they remain open to the Truth, in spite of the confusion that their father is immersing them in.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Sadly, there are many “macho” theologies out there. What your husband is intimating is that you do not submit to his authority. What he does not accept is his responsibility: he cannot demand that authority while remaining unfaithful to Christ.

The authority he demands comes with its own caveat: ‘husbands, love your wife as Christ Loved the Church that He gave His Life for her.’

By butchering you and oppressing you (emotionally) he is not shielding you from destruction; rather, he is the source of the destruction. How can God set him as the head of the household to whom you must submit?

That is the problem people refuse to reconcile. The purpose of a strong husband is to protect and provide for the family. Machismo is the world’s theology.

As for the list of reasons he offers against the Church, they are based on partial truths and a whole mess of anti-Catholic propaganda; this comes from the invention of the press–Protestants could not win on a plane level so they began the uncharitable and un-Christian manipulation of the mind through print.

It is the reason why less than 10 million deaths in over 2000 years which is attributed to Christians is seen more offensive than the over 200 million deaths in only the past 200 years which has been brought about by the secular powers.

Irrationality knows no limits and has no conscience.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
It’s plain to see that he’s arguing more from emotion than reason. It’s difficult to have a logical, rational discussion with someone who’s too emotionally charged. Naturally he’s become overly defensive because without addressing your concerns he can’t give a genuine answer to your questions. It’s sort of a catch 22, he’s only willing to share the Society’s teachings on his and/or their terms, but you are prohibited from mentioning or referencing the Church’s teachings to counter his arguments.

Keep in mind though that his actions are not representative of every Jehovah’s Witness. My in-laws, much to their credit, do encourage me and my wife to ask questions and are happy to share their faith with us. It could be that your husband just needs to step back for awhile and let things cool down before trying to talk about the issue further.

It may be best at this point to just live your faith and let your actions be a testament to how God and the Catholic Church are working in your life. For many this is the best way to evangelize and it’s often more effective than debating.

I can honestly say from my own personal experience that many Witnesses are eager to share their faith out of a genuine concern for a person’s salvation. My father in-law has expressed to my wife that sometimes he is troubled by the fact that we aren’t following the “truth”. He believes that we won’t be living on Paradise Earth with the rest of the family when this system ends. Right or wrong, I can see that he’s motivated by a desire for us to be saved from annihilation.

I’m sure your husband probably shares some of these same fears, but unfortunately it sounds like he’s more concerned with being right than trying to win you over with love and compassion. There’s nothing wrong with wanting your concerns and questions to be addressed, especially if he’s going to continue attacking you for believing the teachings of the Church. Hopefully, you can at least get him to agree that if he insists on opposing the Catholic Church, then he should at least oppose it based upon the Church’s actual teachings. It’s one thing for a person to say, “I disagree with the Catholic Church because I don’t believe it’s right that we should be praying to Mary and the Saints.” Yet, it’s something completely different for a person to say, “I disagree with the Catholic Church because I don’t like that they “worship” Mary and the Saints.” This second objection is based solely upon a misunderstanding of Catholic Doctrine. It seems that your husband is falling prey to this second line of reasoning.
 
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It’s okay to acknowledge that for him, being involved with the Kingdom Hall has done good things in his life. If your children can find some enjoyment because they can spend time with their grandmother and because they take comfort knowing that the meetings are in Spanish, this is okay too. Just reaffirm to him, that you don’t have any animosity or ill will towards the Society, but your questions and concerns have not been answered or explained in a way that shows them to be true. Tell him that you don’t wish to argue or fight and that you are always willing to talk, but let him know that the discussion can’t be one sided. Explain to him that it won’t do any good for your doubt if you are forced to only read the material that he chooses to show you. Share with him that without the ability to compare what you have learned against the teachings of the Society, then it will be nearly impossible to come to a knowledge of the Truth.

Remind him that when you both are discussing your faiths, you should follow what Scripture says in 1 Peter 3:15 “Always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;”

I will continue to pray for you and your husband as you both continue to work on this difficult situation. God Love You both!
 
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Crusader13,
Thank you for your time and effort. I can see that my husband does want me to go into the truth and he’s been told by the elders that since he’s a JW and I support his going that I am saved do to him. So I don’t know why he pushes so much. He’s told me time and time again that he can’t understand why Catholics support the troops and participate in voting that it is unbiblical. Is it really against the Bible to do such things and when is killing ok? I see that in the Old Testament God even commended some kings to destroy others. When he didn’t want to work overtime because he felt God didn’t want him to put too much effort into the worldly things and should instead focus on spending more time with me and the kids, he mentioned a little phrase that he says is in the Bible to why he should work but not over time it goes like this in Spanish "a Cesar lo de Cesar " or in English I believe it’s “to Caesar what is Caesar’s” I really don’t know if that’s how you spell that name. What does that mean?
 
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He gives me the impression that we are to do what the law states which is to work 40 hours but that there is no need for more as God requires balance
 
The verse he is quoting is from Matthew 22, where the Pharisees asked Jesus whether or not it was lawful to pay taxes. They only asked this question because they thought they could trap Jesus by His answer. The entire incident can be found in Matthew 22: 15-22. The quote your husband referenced is "Then he said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

The issue of working overtime isn’t usually one that pertains to being biblical or not. Some people work overtime (OT) because they have a goal that they are working towards, such as paying off debt or saving up for a large purchase. Others may work OT because that extra income is crucial to them for paying rent/mortgage or just being able to put food on the table. In either case, spending time with family is always important and one shouldn’t get so busy at work that they grow apart from their loved ones. One of the biggest regrets that people have as they near the end of their life, is that they wish they hadn’t worked so much. They look back on their life and realize that they missed out on so much, especially when it comes to their children. This could be what your husband is afraid of.

Too often many people equate killing with murder. To shoot and kill an intruder that has broken into your home is not the same as murder. When it comes to war the Catholic Church rightly teaches in the Catechism, paragraphs 2302-2317, that a nation has a right to defend itself against an aggressor. The Crusades and Inquisitions are two of the most commonly used examples by non-Catholics to show that the Church isn’t what it claims to be. However, the Crusades and the Inquisition are also two of the most commonly misunderstood aspects of our faith.
 
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Thank you that makes a lot of sense. Now tell me this verse that he use doesn’t it apply to let’s say voting and military? Isn’t voting a right and a privilege? Voting doesn’t take away our devotion and loyalty to God as well as the military or how do Catholics view this? Because he says that the Bible states that God says that we shouldn’t be part of this world and that those are part of this world and that God also states that the world cannot govern themselves and when we vote and support the troops and things like that, that we are trying to govern ourselves which is going against God just like Adam and Eve did when they went against God and tried to govern themselves by taking the fruit and listening to satan.
 
On the issue of voting, this is not unbiblical in and of itself. Voting for unbiblical laws, such as abortion, is sinful, but the mere act of voting shouldn’t be considered so.

The Witnesses don’t believe in voting or any government service, as I’m sure you’re aware of. Most of their beliefs I feel are personal decisions that as Witnesses they choose to uphold. However, I don’t believe that their teachings on such things as not voting and choosing not to recite the Pledge of Allegiance have any basis in Scripture. I know they feel that since Satan is currently ruling this present system of things, that all nations and governments are by default, under his influence. This I believe, is one of the main driving forces behind their teachings on separating themselves from any government service or show of support.

However, in Scripture you find a different point of view. Look at Romans 13: 1-6,

> Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, **respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.**

Paul was well aware that secular governments and authorities were not put in place to oppose and persecute their people. Naturally, history can show that there has been no shortage of evil rulers and governments who have enslaved and murdered their own citizens. However, he knew that governments and people of authority were going to be needed to help guide and provide for the people. This is why it is important to vote and work hard to ensure that our own government continues to uphold the truths and principles on which it was founded.

I find the approach that the Witnesses hold to, of choosing to avoid any form of government or political involvement is to invite disaster.

However, I know many who still believe that Armageddon is very near and the teachings of the Society still promote this. I’ve heard my in-laws mention this view several times. They always say “None of this will matter in the new system.” Unfortunately, it matters now.
 
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Hi, Tom!

So, in your view, only Catholics impose their personal views on this country or do you mean that only Catholics cannot impose their personal views?

How do you explain abortion being billed as a constitutional right because it is woman’s health issue not a post conception contraceptive?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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Do you not see the flaw in such teachings?

Where in Scriptures does it state 'man can die in rejection of God and will be taught, after death, and gain Salvation?

The only time that death is mentioned as part of conversion is here:
9:27 Since men only die once, and after that comes judgement, 9:28 so Christ, too, offers himself only once to take the faults of many on himself, and when he appears a second time, it will not be to deal with sin but to reward with salvation those who are waiting for him. (Hebrews)
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Your rendering is your particular brand of theology/understanding so I cannot fault it; however, it is flawed to the peril of humanity. Even if the Church, through zeal, claimed that outside of the Church there’s no Salvation, a theology that teaches salvation after death is no better than tenets of reincarnation where millions or billions of lifetimes will be enjoyed, so ‘sin or reject God, no worries: life cycle number two is up!’

Still, it is my understanding that the Church refers to the Body of Christ (don’t know when exactly this was the same understanding as your claim) as the Church so clearly outside of the Church there’s no Salvation.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Tom, could you cite these sources… it seems that Catholics eradicated millions of people for not holding the Catholic Faith… are these not the same numbers of the Spanish Inquisition where thousands upon thousands were burned and tortured?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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Hi!
Do you recall when a Roman Centurial came to Jesus? What did Jesus do, did He reject the Roman soldier because he was a soldier or because Rome was occupying Israel? No!

Not only did Jesus cure this soldier’s servant but He held him as an example for Israel:
8:5 When he went into Capernaum a centurion came up and pleaded with him. 8:6 ‘Sir,’ he said ‘my servant is lying at home paralysed, and in great pain.’ 8:7 ‘I will come myself and cure him’ said Jesus. 8:8 The centurion replied, ‘Sir, I am not worthy to have you under my roof; just give the word and my servant will be cured. 8:9 For I am under authority myself, and have soldiers under me; and I say to one man: Go, and he goes; to another: Come here, and he comes; to my servant: Do this, and he does it.’ 8:10 When Jesus heard this he was astonished and said to those following him, ‘I tell you solemnly, nowhere in Israel have I found faith like this. 8:11 And I tell you that many will come from east and west to take their places with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob at the feast in the kingdom of heaven; 8:12 but the subjects of the kingdom will be turned out into the dark, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.’ 8:13 And to the centurion Jesus said, ‘Go back, then; you have believed, so let this be done for you’. And the servant was cured at that moment. (St. Matthew)
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…as for rendering to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s, this is evident of their flawed theology as it is Christ’s Command that Christians exist within the confines of the world, rendering to God what is God’s does not mean to hide under a “religious” blanket when matters of government and world’s peace is involved, coming out from under that protection when things are “just fine.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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