Living with a Jehovah witness

[jcrichton]

Hi, Tom!

Except that it goes contrary to Jesus’ Teaching:

17:15 I am not asking you to remove them from the world, but to protect them from the evil one. 17:16 They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world. 17:17 Consecrate them in the truth; your word is truth. 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world, 17:19 and for their sake I consecrate myself so that they too may be consecrated in truth. 17:20 I pray not only for these, but for those also who through their words will believe in me. 17:21 May they all be one. Father, may they be one in us, as you are in me and I am in you, so that the world may believe it was you who sent me. (St. John)

It is all good to claim pacifism without being oppressed, terrorized and murdered as the Christians in the East are… it is also all good to take advantage of all the sacrifices made by others and claim ‘following God prevents us from sacrificing ourselves, so go and keep the peace so we may profit from your blood–we will sit back and wait and pray that the world spin itself in an utopian kingdom.’

…as for separatists like the Amish, how hypocritical are they–when they refuse to engage the world they shun till it comes taking advantage of the capital that makes the world go round?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[6857g]

jcrichton,
I thank you for your sincerity. This situation is tough and I see that nothing can work if he isn’t open to discussion, yet sometimes he is and I’m scared to speak because it might cause an argument. Yesterday he was feeling bad and I told him to put it in prayer because nothing is impossible for God and that he always listens, and he got even more upset and said that while that is true that there is still Imperfection. How do I help him feel better about himself while showing him that God is good, loving, and caring? I feel like this situation although tough has brought me closer to my faith and seeking out God more. I still feel like I am wrong no matter what I do and there is never really a day we don’t argue, they are just more mellow arguments as we agreed not to fight in front of the kids but it’s still stressful and overwhelming not knowing what I should do when it seems like anything I do is bad and will hurt him. I walk on eggshells crushing them all no matter what step I take.

 

[Vico]

that there is still Imperfection

New World Translation, Matthew 11

25 At that time Jesus said in response:

“I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.+ 26 Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father,+ and no one fully knows the Son except the Father;+ neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.+ 28 Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart,+ and you will find refreshment for yourselves.* 30 For my yoke is kindly,* and my load is light.”

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Gladys!

I was thinking in the terms of your closing thought as I read through your post.

Sadly, this is the position in which he has placed you.

Some people cannot deal with others unless they feel superior or unless others seem or are made to feel inferior to them.

How it happens I do not know–I suspect that, as with everything in life, it is developmental (the more it is engaged the stronger hold it has on the human psyche).

I find that you are correct; it’s the lose-lose scenario (damned if you do; damned if you don’t); the only way you would win (in his eyes) is if you capitulate totally (convert).

However you have hit upon the one merit in your situation:

I feel like this situation although tough has brought me closer to my faith and seeking out God more.

This is so Biblical!:

8:28 We know that by turning everything to their good God co-operates with all those who love him, with all those that he has ,called according to his purpose. 8:29 They are the ones he chose specially long ago and intended to become true images of his Son, so that his Son might be the eldest of many brothers. 8:30 He called those he intended for this; those he called he justified, and with those he justified he shared his glory. (Romans)

…and is fully in line with what Jesus expects of His Followers:

15:57 So let us thank God for giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 15:58 Never give in then, my dear brothers, never admit defeat; keep on working at the Lord’s work always, knowing that, in the Lord, you cannot be labouring in vain.
16:13 Be awake to all the dangers; stay firm in the faith; be brave and be strong. 16:14 Let everything you do be done in love. (1 Corinthians)

So while you may be forced to endure this onslaught on a daily basis, your Fidelity to the Faith, in Obedience to God, can prove to be the louder Evangelization tool at your disposal.

Check this Command from God:

6:27 ‘But I say this to you who are listening: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly. (St. Luke)
12:9 Do not let your love be a pretence, but sincerely prefer good to evil… 12:11 Work for the Lord with untiring effort and with great earnestness of spirit. 12:12 If you have hope, this will make you cheerful. Do not give up if trials come; and keep on praying… 12:14 Bless those who persecute you: never curse them, bless them… 12:17 Never repay evil with evil but let everyone see that you are interested only in the highest ideals. 12:18 Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. 12:19 Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: vengeance is mine – I will pay them back, the Lord promises. 12:20 But there is more: If your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. 12:21 Resist evil and conquer it with good. (Romans)

We are to be Faithful to God in all adversities; ambassadors of Christ who Stand prayerfully on His side!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[TheLittleLady]

I’d suggest this little book for a starter.

https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Ap...sr=8-1&keywords=beginning+apologetics+jehovah

Will especially pray for your children. Studies show that children overwhelmingly follow in the religion/faith of their father.

 

[adf417]

Thank you jcrichton for your encouragement here @6857g. I have been keeping up with this thread and i tear up everytime I read Gladys posts as I feel her pain but cant seem to come up with the encouraging words one needs.

On another note. I talked to a JW last night who 1st contacted me a few weeks ago on a cold call. On the initial contact I told her i was not interested in going back and forth with scripture verses as we both knew our own interpretations were just. So I asked her before we go any further, answering the one question would suffice for now, that question was - how do you know your interpretation is correct? That was a month ago and she called last night to tell me “I dont have an answer for your question, maybe an elder would” and then she closed the conversation politely ans we both said our goodbyes.

Peace!!!

 

[jcrichton]

Hi!

This is our call; we must respond according to our abilities (as the Holy Spirit enables us); remember that God does not need us to be “perfect;” it is He Who Perfects us; so if your efforts are as a silent prayer witness you are building the Body of Christ just as much (I would even there say, even more) than those with the gift of eloquence. Just chime in so that Gladys know that she is not alone on her struggle.

…as for your visitor/cold caller… they are deployed as the first line (point men, in military jargon) in the hopes that they line up potentials; they would regroup and send in the big guns (second/third levels) in an effort to convince the candidates that theirs is the true fellowship… when this fails (as in my case) they will send out the heavy guns ("elders of “x” seniority who happen to have been Catholics’–and if they can muster them up, ‘from your native town/country’); they usually don’t give up unless you become ‘persona non grata.’

So don’t forget that I’m in your corner, you can run through here (or PM) any issue they bring to you–don’t forget that we must be patience and loving, even to the point of suffering their assertions that theirs is the true religion (each of us must define that threshold, though). I was amazed at one experience where they insisted in visiting and agreed to work outside of their confined parameters (their choreographed book-Bible study)–it gave me the opportunity to prepare materials (including posting quotes on construction paper and pasting them on the walls [subliminal messages] so that it would hit them head on as they entered the apartment) for the dialogues; of course they would not take anything with them (it’s part of their regiment to reject anything not from their sect).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[6857g]

Hi everyone,
I thank you all for your support and prayers. Yesterday wasn’t so bad even though there were some set backs. Tuesday’s my husband has his meetings and Wednesdays I have mass. My eight year old stayed home with me last night and my older one went with my husband along with my two year old (she has no option) we had a great time at home my son the little one and I, we read about angels in a catholic magazine that I had come across not too long ago and we read some bible verses we did prayer and we watched a cartoon video of saint faustina. It was wonderful, he had been feeling lonely and left out at school and I wanted him to see that even when he thinks he’s alone he is not because God loves us so much that he sends us our own very special angel to care for us. His face just lit up with delight. Later that night my husband got home and I went to greet them with joy as I was happy to see them but then he went and sat in the living room by himself and was very serious, I instantly got this feeling of fear over me but as I put my 2yr old to sleep and hugged my oldest goodnight, I prayed and felt more calm. At this little had worked up and I had to feed her then my husband says " come here and sit with me I want to talk to you" in a cheerful voice as to which I said “let me put the baby to sleep and then I’ll join you” he couldn’t wait and came in the room and started sharing how difficult it is to deal with our daughter, that she wants to run around and play and won’t let him focus, he started saying how it was so much better when I would go and that he wished I would go because sometimes he feels like giving up that Jehovah will give him the strength and then mentioned how all the brothers always say to him “don’t give up, we know it’s hard but you can do it” and how they are always willing to help. I then tried to give him a tip as to how I keep her calm and focused during mass I said “try keeping her entertained with what’s going on” when she starts to get fussy I pick her up or sit next to her and say look now they are doing… and she says wow and so I keep her entertained and teach her about mass. He said to this but she had candy before we left and she was unstoppable so I said oh your right and then he started to mention the book of Daniel and how it’s a very prophetic book (I think they are going over it at the meetings) he started to show me about how it talks about different beasts and how they represent different governments and how it’s so accurate and how everyone overlooks them. Do you guys know about these?

 

[6857g]

Continued:
He also mentioned how at first they were called something that I can’t remember but the point was that it was because they were bringing new light to the Bible. Then he left that topic and at this I was a bit irritated because now the baby was awake and was probably not going to let me sleep till late late and it was already after ten. Then he started to tell me that he wanted to do fun things when teaching the kids about the Bible but that he wasn’t good at it but that this guys that goes to the hall with him does and his kids know our kids and that they invited them to their family meetings and guess what day and what time they do it… yup on Wednesday at 7:30 which is when I go to mass. The only thing that popped in my head was “what a coincidence” which I said out loud and he got upset and started going off about how I think he’s conspiring against me and all that but my thought was that wow how the devil takes anything to his advantage, why now that I was going to start taking my sons back to church so that they grew to know and love God and his true church. But he took it as that I was thinking the worst of him and started saying that if I’m so paranoid about him conspiring against me that it must be because I am conspiring against him and started telling me that that guy has been doing his family study with his kids for years at that time and day. I said I’m sorry but that’s not what I meant when I said was I said but he would not let it go. I then got upset and I tried not to but I had enough, from the moment he got home it was to get me to budge to go to the meetings again and to do things his way. He told my 8yo that he missed out because his friends were there and that they played with his brother and that he had missed out. That’s not fair to say to a little kid plus we had had a wonderful time. I lost it guys living with a Jehovah’s Witness is not easy at all. I then told him just drop it I said that’s the only day I can take them to mass because on Sundays they go with their dad and I can’t take them and now you are telling me that Wednesday’s you want to take them to do family study with other people and that I’m being a dictator for not wanting to let them go so that I can take them to the house of God. To which he said but why are you getting angry in just trying to make things fun for the kids and I need help I don’t know how to make things fun and that guy does. I lost it guys and I’m ashamed. I shouldn’t have raised my voice I shouldn’t have gotten upset. I’m so terrible I’m not being what God has asked me to be. Being good and staying calm is such a tough thing to do I am at awe that Jesus went through much worse and was able to be humble and loving. I am ashamed
If anyone can give me some insight about the beasts that he was talking about please let me know.
God bless you all and thank you for your kind words and prayers you all make me feel loved

 

[pacloc]

It definitely sounds like he’s trying to disrupt your Mass with the kids. Think about it, do you really have to hang out with them on their family study night? If they really cared about helping their kids and your kids to grow spiritually, they would be excited to have another day to “make things fun” about JW things. I don’t question that Wednesday is in fact the day they do their family study, but your husband definitely sounds like he is using this as a way to disrupt what he would consider a bad influence on your kids. JWs are not okay with raising kids in other religions simultaneously with their own.

The meaning of the beasts in Daniel are explained in the book itself. It was a way that God showed His foreknowledge to prophecy what kingdoms would rule in the future. This helps us to know that God is beyond time and knows the end from the beginning. It also talks about the coming of our Lord and God Jesus Christ to come and rule over all and His rule is eternal. JWs try to use prophecies for their advantage for predicting 1914, and the end of the world signs. Christians see the spiritual importance in these prophecies to helps us hope in the Kingdom of God, and to see the futility of the world opposed to God and of the kingdom of the demons.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Gladys!

…well, I can tell you about a beast that is quite ancient and insidious… it’s the red-eyed monster called manipulation.

First he sets it up:

but then he went and sat in the living room by himself and was very serious

…you greeted your family with joy and you were met with a resolute stern and joyless demeanor.

Then he throws in the curveball:

how difficult it is to deal with our daughter

Followed by the “poor is me” sympathy hunger:

he wished I would go because sometimes he feels like giving up

Surprisingly, there’s a solution that fits perfectly:

he wanted to do fun things when teaching the kids about the Bible but that he wasn’t good at it but that this guys that goes to the hall with him does

…and the trap closes:

they invited them to their family meetings… on Wednesday at 7:30 which is when I go to mass.

…all you have to do to make the world right is give up you Catholic Faith–let your children be brought up in a sect that rejects Christ’s Divinity.

It is difficult to be in you shoes… just through second-hand experience, my blood boils as this organization demolishes and demoralizes their quarry… and people, regardless of their intelligence, fall prey and not only succumb but become complaisant in the doom their cult/sect releases upon the world.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Gladys!

Here’s a Catholic source on the beasts in Daniel 7:

[2] It must be confessed that the historical interpretation of verses 15-27 remains wholly doubtful. It is not even clear whether the four beasts represent four successive empires (like the statue in chapter 2), or four kingdoms existing simultaneously, e.g. the four main divisions of the Macedonian empire after Alexander’s death. The little horn is usually identified with Antiochus Epiphanes (b.c. 176-164), the persecutor of the Machabees; but he was the eighth, not the tenth of his line, and the explanations given of the ‘three horns’ displaced by him seem curiously forced. (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/dan007.htm)

Hey, I just found out that newadvent.org has an on-line Bible, in multiple languages no less! (Greek/English/Latin)

Many times people tend to become “experts” in what Scriptures (specially the “hidden” meanings of things) say; yet, they are simply speculating on what these passages truly mean. However, when they make such claims, as with any cult, their knowledge/understanding is empirical–the only problem is that it is their version of “truth,” not reality.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Tom!

No, the quote is not about opposing anything; it is about the reality that Jesus’ Followers had to face: though not being part of the world (separated by God) they were not removed from the world so they are to engage the world.

It is wrong to claim pacifism and enjoy the peace that it gives when others shed their blood to make sure that “pacifists” can enjoy their peace–and then claim that that’s what God wants them to do?–that’s akin to “flag burners” claiming their “constitutional rights” to burn the flag while debasing those who shed their blood to bring about that “constitutional freedom.”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[6857g]

TomMartin,
I will pray for you. God fills a void in you when you seek him from the bottom of your heart and I really hope you find it some day. You have a good heart and I can see that even around your rough edges. God bless you Tom always.

 

[adf417]

I thought she was being sensible by letting the children go with their father every Sunday while bringing them with her on Wednesday.

However i think you are being over simplistic unrealistic from a theoligical standpoint for children. The Catholic Church teaches JWs worships the same God as Catholics do, The JWs teach the opposite of this. Dont you see how this is confusing and disturbing to a young child?

Peace!!!

 

[6857g]

Hi tom,
You know I had thought about it, about letting alternate Wednesdays. Here’s the thing… the boys go to their dads on Sunday’s so I can’t take them to mass on Sunday’s, Wednesday’s are the only days I can take them. Yet my husband can take them Tuesday’s and wants to take them preaching Saturdays and does bible study with them every other day. If I try to do bible study with the boys and he’s home, they won’t sit and listen but when I do it and he isn’t home it’s a different story. Now ask yourself why is that? Also when they come back from the hall my son usually doesn’t talk to me, just this Tuesday my oldest son went with my husband to the hall but my younger one stayed home. When they got home my husband told him to say hi and to show me his notes. Yesterday my oldest son when he got home he said “man it sucks that we do get to go swimming because today we go to church and then on Tuesday’s with daddy because he’s going to feel bad if no one goes with him.” I felt bad and let them swim for a little while before we left. Now consider this, when he was younger and before we met my husband my oldest son loved going to church, loved cathecism class, bible school in the summer, and was more catholic than me at times, he had so much love for God and for others. Now he’s not the same. Yesterday he was the first one ready to go when we were going to leave, my husband went to the room to talk to them and then he changed. When we got to church he seemed ok but then aftet we sat down he changed he got very serious and didn’t participate. I asked him what was wrong and he said nothing but I could tell he was not happy, he then put his head down and started to cry when mass was over and I asked him what was wrong he kept saying “I don’t know” then I said baby do you not want to come and he said “I don’t know” I talked to him and assured him that I wouldn’t be upset but that he needed to trust me and talk to me so I asked again and he said no. It broke my heart of course but I said ok baby no worries. On our way out the sisters told us that they had free bread in the kitchen to go and get some if we’d like. My oldest didn’t want to but my others were delighted. When we were leaving the sisters said have a wonderful night you guys are wonderful children and my others said thank you and good bye yet my oldest wouldnt look at them and didn’t say anything. It was a very uncomfortable ride home as he was so quiet and angry with me, would ignore anything I said. Then my husband noticed that my son was quiet and asked what had happened I told him nothing had happened and he kept insisting
Continued…

 

[6857g]

Continued:
So I said nothing happened that he just wasn’t happy. When we got home he put them to do their chores but I thought that it was late and that they should go to sleep. My husband said that while one showered the other could work on their chores so I told him he was right and that it made sense. Few minutes later I went to hug my oldest, he didn’t want to be hugged, then we started to play around and my husband comes up and says “you had all day to play now he has to do his chores” I felt bad because they go to school then stay at an after school program till after 6 they get home then I let them go swimming and then mass and that was the only chance I got to enjoy him a little but I did wrong as he was working on his chores. When my oldest went outside to put the dogs in for the night, my husband went after him and he said that he asked him what was wrong and that my son said that he didn’t want to go to church that I should consider not taking him anymore. I had thought about that on our way home. I figure I can’t force him to go. I’m sad because he used to love going. Now here is a fact that I’ve noticed, he is staring to dislike Catholics as I’ve noticed the JWs very subtly make Catholics look bad. A few examples, on their documentary about the JWs and the natzi they show a pope saluting along side hitler and they said “when JWs were persecuted, some other religious leaders were glad even supported hitler” and then on one of the kids videos of Caleb and Sophia that they recently watched they talk about how people who don’t worship Jehova, wear their pagan Gods around their necks and then there is one time at one of their meetings I went to, they shared a story of how some people were preaching and they remained calm even when some catholic men started to argue and want to hit them. Those are just a few. Then there is what my husband likes to do which is make us the parents of the boys look bad. Examples… when I just about had enough I told him I was sincerely considering a divorce and we got into this huge argument that went on all day long and the next day anyways at one point when I thought all was calm the calls the kids and tells them look at what your mom is doing she wants to leave she wants to separate this family. So I told him we didn’t need to get the kids involved and he said yes we do my dad did it all the time and I said well my parents didn’t they allowed us to be kids why are you trying to treat them like adults please stop telling them our problems they are just kids but he was angry and proceeded with he she talks over me she wants to leave she wants to take you guys away from me like she did to your dad. I had to stay quiet so that it would end for my kids sake. Then there is the time I came and said that I wanted to take them to church and he said that he wouldn’t take them to the hall or preaching. He was eager to tell the kids that because I was being selfish that he couldn’t study with them or take them preaching or to the hall. He has also said so many things to the boys about their dad.
Continued…

 

[6857g]

Continued:
Their dad and I had it brought when we split, he was mean to me and I had shared these storys with my husband when we were dating well when we moved in together if the kids went with their dad and they got home happy he would tell them all the things that he had done to me things which I never shared with the boys as they were kids and didn’t need to know but he told them and I let it happen. I feel and I hope I’m wrong that the JWs have poisoned my son’s mind against Catholics and my husband has poisoned his mind against his dad and myself. This is in part why I want to separate from my husband. But there are many other factors. Yet I think that the boys would hate me for it, that’s at least what my husband has told me.

 

[6857g]

Hi jcrichton,
I see what you mean and I didn’t want to see it that way. My husband is trying so hard to be nice but I can see past it because he has a tendency to be mean and then be overly nice which in turn has me upset:angry by the time he is being nice so I oooknlike the bad guy the evil doer. He has a way. He bribes the kids with fun stuff. Kids are obviously going to want to do the fun stuff. I will look into that bible site you mentioned. I thank you for all your support and helpful information. He thinks I have post partum depresion and wants me to get seen by a doctor. I don’t feel that I have post partum I feel like it’s just the way he treats me that has me not trusting, not caring and not wanting him around. He came home the other day and said “what if there was a way that I could get guardianship for the boys without anyone having to relinquish their rights” and it caught me by surprise he continued with “would you let me be the legal guardian to the boys, would you be ok with me being able to spend time with them if you were to die?” I couldn’t say anything, I didn’t know what to say I didn’t want to say yes but was too scared to say no. Then I felt bad for thinking that way and was going to say ok then but he beat me to it and said “I can’t unless someone relinquishes their rights, I just wanted to see what you would say, and now I know you don’t trust me with the boys. Remember when we talked about this a long time ago and you were ok with it” to this I said yeah I remember saying yes to that a long time ago but you were nice back then. He pretended not to hear me and asked me to repeat it but I didn’t. He then said don’t worry I just wanted to see what you would say. I tried not to say anything because I’m so tired of fighting. Anyways afterward it was so awkward and tense at home. Now tell me that this won’t make someone not want to be around a person like that. I’m trying so hard to see the good in him but it’s in vain as he crushes those thoughts so quickly. This is why I’m always quiet, upset, and bitter. Yet he blames it on the baby or me staying at home aka postpartum. We agree to go see a doctor and hopefully this helps. Please keep us in your prayers especially my son.

 

[jcrichton]

Tom, you believe that the Church should remain unchanging?

You truly believe that with the changes in the world the Believers should gather together and pull their resources and live in a prayerful life.

Are you not cognizant that in them there times things were different?

Did you not know that Roman occupied states were not considered Roman citizens or that barbarians (every thug with a militia) sought to conquer and destroy?

If the Church remained removed from the world, do you think that you would enjoy having the freedom to speak against her or any other power that be?

And do you think like the Amish and others that by capitalizing on the need of the “English” they are actually truly removed from the world?

The Church took Jesus Commands seriously and she affected justice and peace in the world through engaging the world.

You are the type that blame the Church for meddling in world’s affair while simultaneously holding her responsible for not controlling the acts and minds of the world’s power-players.

…it’s the old ‘don’t believe in hell, but send all my enemies there!’

Maran atha!

Angel