Los Angeles Religious Education Conference 2006 / Dancers Deluxe

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You all are focusing on the wrong thing, look around that arena, dont you see all of those beautiful Catholic children there, together in communion, praising our Lord, learning about their faith, being proactive in the mass and blessings rather than text messaging, or gossiping or at home playing video games or running around a mall? they are in MASS! I think that that is something to be praised not belittled because they didnt do it *your *way. The youth are the ones who will take the reigns of this Church and carry the faith out. If we dont find a way to reach them, to connect to them like Our Holy Father Pope John Paul The Second, may he rest in peace, then the Church will die off. Why do you think JP2 tried so hard to reach the youth through events like World Youth Day?
 
Dancing for joy? absolutely, salvation has come! why not dance!
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Brendan:
Could you please explain how the re-presentation of Calvary could ever be quote: :yawn: :sleep: BORING!??

How could the Death and Resurrection of our Lord presented before us could ever be added to, or made more ‘awesome’

Imagine yourself at the foot of the Cross (which you are at Mass), who among us would feel the need to break out into ‘iinterperative dance’
 
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TarAshly:
Its called art. perhaps you’ve heard of it 😃 ? as a dancer myself, I think its awesome, talk about bringing the kids into the Church! They are not going to sit through a dry dull mass, like the one at my grandparents old church :yawn: :sleep: BORING! my church now has a seperate Charasmatic Youth Mass on Sunday evenings. I think it is phenominal! Kids are FLOCKING to this mass, its awesome to see so many kids on fire for our Lord Jesus.

By the way, specifically, thats called interperative dance, 😉 . the dresses are pretty 🙂
Boring? Do you understand Mass?
 
Yes, in fact the book “The Lambs Supper” really lined it out for me, but even I get a little sick of the same old hymns. I dont find the blessing of the gifts boring at all, because I understand what is taking place, but the before and after, can be a little dull. Luckily we have a great priest who always manages to make everyone laugh and enjoy his homily, and I love the peace, I think thats great. I do wish they would vamp up the music a little. except “On Eagles Wings” that is a beautiful song that I adore.
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buffalo:
Boring? Do you understand Mass?
 
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TarAshly:
Yes, in fact the book “The Lambs Supper” really lined it out for me, but even I get a little sick of the same old hymns. I dont find the blessing of the gifts boring at all, because I understand what is taking place, but the before and after, can be a little dull. Luckily we have a great priest who always manages to make everyone laugh and enjoy his homily, and I love the peace, I think thats great. I do wish they would vamp up the music a little. except “On Eagles Wings” that is a beautiful song that I adore.
It seems you are looking to be entertained at Mass.
 
No not all, I find that music brings me closer to God, especially beautiful uplifting music. You know that song by Carrie Underwood, Jesus Take The Wheel? every time that song comes on I am blasting the stereo singing my heart out for Jesus, talking to him, praying to him to take the wheel in my life. I am at Mass to get closer to God, thats just one thing that brings me closer to God. Music in all venues does, I am looking to leave mass feeling uplifted, joyous and revived, and feeling one step closer to my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Even the musicians in our Church are frustrated, there are so many people that would fight tooth and nail to have things back to the Latin Mass ways, that they have to fight every step of the way to change one little thing. The bells being put back in the mass took a whole year! Father asked me to be on the church council as a youth advisor, I am only 23 and they wanted a young aspect on the way things should be going. I was touched and completely humbled by it, to be honest I didnt even know if the priest knew my name until a friend who is on the parish council told me he put my name in for new membership to the church council. I cant do it right now because of school, but as soon as I have the time I would like to be on that board. Times are changing and things need to change too, or else we will lose our youth. I know kids that go to Catholic School who wont go to Mass because its boring, I know because I had them in CCE! I would beg them to go to Mass, taught them all about its meaning and even assigned readings for them to learn and grow in the mass. I always got the same answer “Miss, its boring” we have to do something, the old are getting older and the youth are becoming adults, we have to get them into the church. I am very proud of my church, we now have a band that plays at special masses, a youth building, a youth group leader who is phenominal in firing up these kids and a seperate youth mass. Like one parishoner, a KoC said “Things are changing around here and people are not going to like it, but the ones that resist the change will either get on board or leave, we have got to focus on these kids” and he is so right, he said this when we have the Katrina shelter open and people were demanding it be shut down. I had never been more ashamed of my fellow parishoners than during that time, but I see the tides turning and I am SO excited about the changes taking place in our church. The kids are going to church, they are going to confession, they are partaking in the sacraments, not to mention volunteering, mentoring, protesting abortion, joining right to life groups and so active in youth group we are going to have to expand the brand new youth building we JUST built, it wont hold all of them. These are good things people!
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buffalo:
It seems you are looking to be entertained at Mass.
 
By the way, whats wrong with enjoying mass? I have been to several masses that I thoroughly enjoyed, these have been the ones to re-energize me and fire me up! nothing wrong with that!
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buffalo:
It seems you are looking to be entertained at Mass.
 
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frommi:
Let’s try some logic here…

The mass is a form of liturgy

All liturgies are not masses.

That dance was not necessarily happening in the context of a mass…

IF you recall, when the Pope visited St, Louis, they had an evening prayer service…and at that service…ta-da…they had dancers…dancers who were blessed by the Pope afterward.

So, before you start shooting your mouth off about abuses that aren’t abuses, perhaps you should get your facts straight
Boy - a stella example of epistomology.

Here we have the Cardinal Archbishop in chausable (the vestment of the Mass) along with many bishops similarly vested, the deacon and additional clergy all with stoles; the processional cross just to the right of the cathedra and pictures of a MASS throughout. And somehow you want to argue that the dance was not part of the Mass??? OK so the Cardinal allowed the dance - when? Immediately before Mass so that it all seemed to be part of the service? Come on! We’ve seen this too many times. Then someone gets on a high horse that “this was not part of the Mass.” Horse hooey. It’s a deliberate twisting of the rules.

The dishonesty of all this is beyond belief. (NOTE, I am not saying you are dishonest - though I do believe the argument is intellectually dishonest.)

Then to claim it “was not necessaruly happening” during the Mass and add the gloss about a clear prayer service??? Too much. Way too much.
 
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TarAshly:
No not all, I find that music brings me closer to God, especially beautiful uplifting music. You know that song by Carrie Underwood, Jesus Take The Wheel? every time that song comes on I am blasting the stereo singing my heart out for Jesus, talking to him, praying to him to take the wheel in my life. I am at Mass to get closer to God, thats just one thing that brings me closer to God. Music in all venues does, I am looking to leave mass feeling uplifted, joyous and revived, and feeling one step closer to my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Even the musicians in our Church are frustrated, there are so many people that would fight tooth and nail to have things back to the Latin Mass ways, that they have to fight every step of the way to change one little thing. The bells being put back in the mass took a whole year! Father asked me to be on the church council as a youth advisor, I am only 23 and they wanted a young aspect on the way things should be going. I was touched and completely humbled by it, to be honest I didnt even know if the priest knew my name until a friend who is on the parish council told me he put my name in for new membership to the church council. I cant do it right now because of school, but as soon as I have the time I would like to be on that board. Times are changing and things need to change too, or else we will lose our youth. I know kids that go to Catholic School who wont go to Mass because its boring, I know because I had them in CCE! I would beg them to go to Mass, taught them all about its meaning and even assigned readings for them to learn and grow in the mass. I always got the same answer “Miss, its boring” we have to do something, the old are getting older and the youth are becoming adults, we have to get them into the church. I am very proud of my church, we now have a band that plays at special masses, a youth building, a youth group leader who is phenominal in firing up these kids and a seperate youth mass. Like one parishoner, a KoC said “Things are changing around here and people are not going to like it, but the ones that resist the change will either get on board or leave, we have got to focus on these kids” and he is so right, he said this when we have the Katrina shelter open and people were demanding it be shut down. I had never been more ashamed of my fellow parishoners than during that time, but I see the tides turning and I am SO excited about the changes taking place in our church. The kids are going to church, they are going to confession, they are partaking in the sacraments, not to mention volunteering, mentoring, protesting abortion, joining right to life groups and so active in youth group we are going to have to expand the brand new youth building we JUST built, it wont hold all of them. These are good things people!
Kids find Mass boring because they don’t really understand why they are there. The teaching has been so watered down.

I hold much hope for the youth and I agree it is very promising.

And yes, Mass should be enjoyable in that you come away fulfilled in your worship and sacrifice. In other words what you do.
 
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TarAshly:
Dancing for joy? absolutely, salvation has come! why not dance!
Ahh, I get it.

We are having the Passion of Our Lord presented before us, more realistically that Mel Gibson could ever present.

And that is a time for pirouettes.

Yes, it makes so much sense.
 
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TarAshly:
Yes, in fact the book “The Lambs Supper” really lined it out for me, but even I get a little sick of the same old hymns. I dont find the blessing of the gifts boring at all, because I understand what is taking place, but the before and after, can be a little dull. .
Ok, which part is a ‘little dull’.

The request for mercy in the Penitential Rite?

The Proclamaiton of the Word of God in Reading Psalm Epistle and Gospel??

The instruction on how to apply the Word that given by a Graced man of God?

The Reception of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity by Christ’s Faithful

Which one is ‘dull’?
 
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TarAshly:
Its called art. perhaps you’ve heard of it 😃 ? as a dancer myself, I think its awesome, talk about bringing the kids into the Church! They are not going to sit through a dry dull mass, like the one at my grandparents old church :yawn: :sleep: BORING! my church now has a seperate Charasmatic Youth Mass on Sunday evenings. I think it is phenominal! Kids are FLOCKING to this mass, its awesome to see so many kids on fire for our Lord Jesus.

By the way, specifically, thats called interperative dance, 😉 . the dresses are pretty 🙂
If the regular Masses are “BORING” to most of the youth in your Church, then I think your parish is in need of a better religious education program. And not just for youth, for parents as well.

When the Mass is properly understood to be a re-presentation of calvary, then it is anything but “BORING”…
 
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Catholic29:
If the regular Masses are “BORING” to most of the youth in your Church, then I think your parish is in need of a better religious education program. And not just for youth, for parents as well.

When the Mass is properly understood to be a re-presentation of calvary, then it is anything but “BORING”…
Well said. Is it always simply about feelings? If I feel bored, was the mass bad? If I feel bored the probelm is me, not the mass.
 
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fix:
Well said. Is it always simply about feelings? If I feel bored, was the mass bad? If I feel bored the probelm is me, not the mass.
The worst part is that by trying to compete with the entertainment industry we put on neither an entertaining nor a sacred liturgy. It becomes lose - lose all around. (Actually not the worst part - that is the loss of faith it all engenders. That is the worst part.)
 
Does it strike anyone else that this is an entirely novel reason for the form of the Mass - it’s entertainment value? The very fact that anyone would argue that strikes me as a terrible perversion.

It strikes me as a argument so bad that it completely validates the move to oppose it.
 
The Mass Isn’t Entertainment, Says Cardinal Arinze

**In Interview, He Gives His Perspective on the Liturgy
**

**…**Showmanship

“Vatican II brought many good things but everything has not been positive, and the synod recognized that there have been shadows,” Cardinal Arinze acknowledged.

“There has been a bit of neglect of the holy Eucharist outside Mass,” he said. "A lot of ignorance. A lot of temptations to showmanship for the priest who celebrates facing the people.

"If he is not very disciplined he will soon become a performer. He may not realize it, but he will be projecting himself rather than projecting Christ. Indeed it is very demanding, the altar facing the people. Then even those who read the First and Second Reading can engage in little tactics that make them draw attention to themselves and distract the people.

“So there are problems. However, some of the problems were not caused by Vatican II, but they were caused by children of the Church after Vatican II. Some of them talking of Vatican II push their own agenda. We have to watch that. People pushing their own agenda, justifying it as the ‘spirit of Vatican II.’”

The Vatican prefect continued: “So, if only people would be more faithful to what has been laid down, not by people who just like to make laws for other people, but what follows from what we believe. ‘Lex orandi, Lex credendi.’ It is our faith that directs our prayer life, and if we genuflect in front of the tabernacle it is because we believe that Jesus is there, and is God.”

more…
 
Nobody hits the nail on the head better than Cardinal Arinze…:yup:

If only Cardinal Mahony agreed…😦
 
However, “the Church is not saying that everything should be Gregorian music,” the cardinal clarified. "There is room for music which respects that language, that culture, that people. There is room for that too, and the present books say that is a matter for the bishops’ conference, because it generally goes beyond the boundaries of one diocese.

Sounds to me like he thinks it would be okay to have different music, music of ones culture and people, for a lot of youth and young adults, thats pretty different from Gregorian Chants…
 
“When they want entertainment, they know where to go – parish hall, theater, presuming that their entertainment is acceptable from a moral theological point of view,” added the cardinal, 73, who this year celebrated the 40th anniversary of his episcopal ordination.

wait, now I am confused, is he Catholic or Epsicopalian?
 
Right TarAshly, but that statement does NOT mean that chant is to be banned.
 
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