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lanman87
Guest
This is exactly why credobaptist only baptize those who profess faith. Ultimately, it is the validity of their faith that saves, not the validity of their baptism.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Against the tradition of the Early Church who baptized infants. The faith of the parents suffices in case.This is exactly why credobaptist only baptize those who profess faith.
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lanman87
Guest
Except, what happened to Cornelius became normative. People come to faith, are sealed with the Spirit, and then are baptized.Just like God used Cornelius and his family for that specific reading.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
It never did.Except, what happened to Cornelius became normative
The Philippian jailer, Lydia and the disciples at Ephesus were baptized before receiving the Spirit.
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lanman87
Guest
A tradition that started toward the end of the 2nd Century and wasn’t normative until the 5th Century. Notice that Augustine (and many other church fathers) wasn’t baptized as an infant, even though his mother was a strong Christian woman. If infant baptism was the norm in the early church then surely Augustine would have experience infant baptism, but he didn’t.Against the tradition of the Early Church who baptized infants.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Paul baptized everyone in the jailer’s household.A tradition that started toward the end of the 2nd Century and wasn’t normative until the 5th Century
He had a pagan dad. Of course he wasn’t baptized!Notice that Augustine wasn’t baptized as an infant
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lanman87
Guest
It doesn’t say about the Phillippian Jailer, other than to say he believed before he was baptized.The Philippian jailer, Lydia and the disciples at Ephesus were baptized before receiving the Spirit.
Lydia doesn’t say either, It just says the Lord opened her heart…and she was baptized.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him, along with all those who were in his house. At that hour of the night he took them and washed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized right away."
Acts 16:31-33 NET
Wrong on your count.
A woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, a God-fearing woman, listened to us. The Lord opened her heart to respond to what Paul was saying. After she and her household were baptized, she urged us, “If you consider me to be a believer in the Lord, come and stay in my house.” And she persuaded us.
Acts 16:14-15 NET
If anything this is an example of actual grace. Lydia didn’t have sanctifying grace before baptism.
Acts 16:31-33 NET
Wrong on your count.
A woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, a God-fearing woman, listened to us. The Lord opened her heart to respond to what Paul was saying. After she and her household were baptized, she urged us, “If you consider me to be a believer in the Lord, come and stay in my house.” And she persuaded us.
Acts 16:14-15 NET
If anything this is an example of actual grace. Lydia didn’t have sanctifying grace before baptism.
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Julius_Caesar
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lanman87
Guest
She was saved when the “Lord Opened her Heart”. the Jailer was baptized because he “Believed in the Lord Jesus”. He was baptized because he believed, not in order to believe.Lydia didn’t have sanctifying grace before baptism.
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lanman87
Guest
The Church of Christ also misunderstand Faith and Grace.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
She was saved when she was baptized.She was saved when the “Lord Opened her Heart”.
God opens the hearts of many of us and we close them right back.
He believed and was baptized. That’s the key phrase. Faith and baptism go hand in hand.He was baptized because he believed, not in order to believe
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
So the gates of hell prevailed.The Church of Christ also misunderstand Faith and Grace.
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lanman87
Guest
As long as the elect are on the earth the gates of hell will not have prevailed (overcome) God’s people (the Church)So the gates of hell prevailed.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Which presupposes an invisible Church. Christ never had this in mind when He spoke to St. Peter.As long as the elect are on the earth the gates of hell will not have prevailed (overcome) God’s people
You believe the gates of hell had their way with Christ’s Church.
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lanman87
Guest
Yes, but we are saved by faith. We are baptized because we have faith. One is an inward change of God, the other is an external proclamation and initiation.Faith and baptism go hand in hand.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Which includes putting on Christ and partaking of His Body and Blood.Yes, but we are saved by faith
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lanman87
Guest
Those things are the result of having faith, by which we are saved.Which includes putting on Christ and partaking of His Body and Blood.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Rather, those things are done in faith.Those things are the result of having faith, by which we are saved.
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lanman87
Guest
They are ways we live by faith. They are means God uses to grow in and strengthen our faith, by which we receive all graces from God.Rather, those things are done in faith.
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