Lost Catholic Faith

[laylow]

So friend; WHAT events caused you to abandon the Catholic Faith and Church?

A gradual course of events that led to the eventual position I hold today.

As a general one statement description, I no longer believe the Christian concept of God, the Christian story, or some of the Christian morals.

It started partly as a result of my own personal suffering which led me to examine my own opinion on many key issues as well as gave me ample time to pursue the knowledge of said issues.

As a result I took up a vigorous study of the Bible and found many inconsistencies, contradictions, and honestly straight-up nonsense I that I could not resolve. I began studying early Christianity historically from multiple sources and scholars. My eventual conclusion was that the Bible was a collection of very human writings, divine intervention being completely absent.

As I began to look at the writings as humans attempt at morality and philosophy, they began to make much more sense. The discovered writings being human’s first documented attempt to understand the world from these perspectives, gave me the perspective that they were meant to be improved upon, instead of being treated as absolute authority, just as the ideas of Socrates or other philosophers. The house of cards began to crumble.

The problem of Evil led to my disbelief in theism. If there is a God who intervenes in the world, answers prayer, cares about individual people, etc. I see the evidence of this as completely nonexistent. Apparently it was quite prevalent in biblical times, but these days God is obviously too busy.

I have an open mind towards deism, although I see no real reason to believe it. It seems more like a “God of the Gaps” concept in which there are better natural concepts that do a better job of attempting to explain first cause, etc.

 

[Vonsalza]

I’m not talking about you or anyone in this forum so don’t take my words personally.

Apologies. I had the idea that you were responding to me.

But it appears that the quintessential “Catholic” answers to the problem is to 1.) “Trust Jesus” (even if that possibly/probably involves denying your faculties), 2.) Just don’t have sex with your spouse anymore or 3.) Denial that the problem is actually material because here’s a story about Saint Suffered-More-Than-You who was born during a failed abortion and ate every meal with a wooden spoon that was prone to splinters and was stung to death by bees despite being abnormally resistant to bee venom.

Catholics who use artificial contraception are not living God’s Plan, so from the start they are telling God they do not trust in Him and want to live their life on their own terms. So God respects that.

That’s an interesting opinion.

Was it part of God’s Plan for contraception to come about?

Do you assume that God will give you the ability to support as many children as you can have? Or is there such a thing as having too many?

 

[SnoopSword]

I no longer believe the Christian concept of God, the Christian story, or some of the Christian morals.

That’s why God provided us the Shroud of Turin:

John 20:6-7 Peter…went into the TOMB and saw the BURIAL CLOTHS [Shroud of turin] there, and the CLOTH that had covered his HEAD [Sudarium of Oviedo]…the burial cloths ROLLED UP in a separate place. (NEATLY PRESENTED for use as end-times ‘science’ based relics)

-“NEW test dates SHROUD of TURIN to era of Christ” - USA Today

SHROUD OF TURIN -“The new examination dates the shroud to between 300 BC and 400 AD, which would put it in the era of Christ.” -USA Today

“TURIN SHROUD ‘was created by FLASH of SUPERNATURAL LIGHT’ | Daily Mail” -dailymail .co.uk

“The Shroud of Turin, Authenticated Again” - nationalreview .com Apr 16, 2016 https://waa.ai/z79z

“SHROUD OF TURIN “formed by a short INTENSE BURST of RADIANT ENERGY BRIGHTER than the SUN.”

 

[Kei]

I find your story very sad. And then saying later you will return…it is very dangerous. Jesus said, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.” I mean not to judge you; I mean to warn you.

 

[Vonsalza]

I find your story very sad.

It’s the story of probably 90% of Catholic households in the west and probably 99.99% of protestant households. This “sadness” surrounds you.

And then saying later you will return…it is very dangerous.

Oh I’m not convinced that Catholic Church has the market cornered on Christ. The Orthodox lay a claim I thought was as good when I was considering Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

I mean not to judge you; I mean to warn you.

Thanks for the concern, but I don’t share it. Truly and genuinely.

 

[Gab123]

But it appears that the quintessential “Catholic” answers to the problem is to 1.) “Trust Jesus”

Yes. It is all about faith. Those who do not have faith cannot move forward. Salvation itself is about faith, and doing what Jesus teaches.

Was it part of God’s Plan for contraception to come about?

No, it is not part of God’s Plan. Artificial contraception is a demonic deception. The pill is an example of science being used for evil, much like when medicine is used of evil, such as in the case of abortion. For example, when the Pill came into the world it ushered in the age of promiscuity which has led to most of the social ills we have today, from broken families, to crime rates to abortions. Most criminals in prison today come from fatherless homes.

Below is a life-changing talk: Two audio links by Dr. Janet E Smith who explains all the evils of artificial contraception from the perspective of biology, women’s health, and social ills. It will fundamentally change the mindset of those who have embraced artificial contraception, and make them much, much happier. All men and women should ponder this:

LINK 1: http://www.janetsmith.excerptsofinri.com/audio/contrapception-why-not-01.mp3

LINK 2: http://www.janetsmith.excerptsofinri.com/audio/contrapception-why-not-02.mp3

 

[laylow]

That’s why God provided us the Shroud of Turin:

It is always interesting to me that the face of Jesus on the shroud represents the obvious Caucasian Roman description of him in which scholars would all agree that is not the way he would have looked like.

 

[Vonsalza]

SnoopSword:

That’s why God provided us the Shroud of Turin:

It is always interesting to me that the face of Jesus on the shroud represents the obvious Caucasian Roman description of him in which scholars would all agree that is not the way he would have looked like.

I think it’s at this point we smile and say “pax”.

 

[Gab123]

It is always interesting to me that the face of Jesus on the shroud represents the obvious Caucasian Roman description of him in which scholars would all agree that is not the way he would have looked like.

Realize that the image you are seeing in the Shroud of Turin in negative photographic image of the shroud. How you get Caucasian out of that is your imagination. When I see the image I see a nose, a mouth, a beard, closed eyes, arms and legs of a human being. Without the negative to the natural eye sees the blood stains. Here is a great site about all the amazing things they have found in the shroud: http://www.shroud.com

 

[laylow]

How you get Caucasian out of that is your imagination

Not only mine…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[GLam1761]

IF one is a Christian AND want to be attached to
the Root and Branch of David, Jesus Christ, you
MUST stay in communion with the RCC which
Christ said he will build on Peter(Matt. 16:18),
accept the RULES and LAWS of the Church.
Much riches of Grace and Merits are found in
the Catholic Church and if you seriously consid-
er the Catholic church to be the Body of Christ,
which it is, according to Scripture, then to be
IN CHRIST is to be IN COMMUNION w/ the
RCC!! Remember: " In Me you’ll have Peace,
in this world you’ll be Troubled, but be of good
courage, I(Christ and the Church, His Body)
have overcome the world" John 16:33

 

[Vonsalza]

laylow:

SnoopSword:

That’s why God provided us the Shroud of Turin:

It is always interesting to me that the face of Jesus on the shroud represents the obvious Caucasian Roman description of him in which scholars would all agree that is not the way he would have looked like.

I think it’s at this point we smile and say “pax”.

I think there’s a level of devotion that should probably be left alone. Folks that have “drunk so much of the kool-aide” that they can’t see it any other way are likely beyond rational dialogue and to dislodge them from this deeply held position would probably be damaging to their person in a way that is greater than any benefit to be gained.

In fairness, those people shouldn’t expose themselves to an environment that’s critical of their beliefs. But then I still don’t want to contribute to a crisis of meaning in their lives.

 

[Vonsalza]

IF one is a Christian AND want to be attached to
the Root and Branch of David, Jesus Christ, you
MUST stay in communion with the RCC which
Christ said he will build on Peter(Matt. 16:18),

Sure.

Some would argue that the Petrine Function is currently being carried out by the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

 

[Gab123]

Not only mine…

Realize that you can overlay any face with eyes nose and mouth and it will line up very nicely. Jesus was a Jew from palestine. Simply look up how people from Palestine look.

 

[laylow]

I think there’s a level of devotion that should probably be left alone. Folks that have “drunk so much of the kool-aide” that they can’t see it any other way are likely beyond rational dialogue and to dislodge them from this deeply held position would probably be damaging to their person in a way that is greater than any benefit to be gained.

In fairness, those people shouldn’t expose themselves to an environment that’s critical of their beliefs. But then I still don’t want to contribute to a crisis of meaning in their lives.

A world without critical thinking…that would be my definition of “hell”

 

[laylow]

Realize that you can overlay any face with eyes nose and mouth and it will line up very nicely. Jesus was a Jew from palestine. Simply look up how people from Palestine look.

Fair enough. Then this is no reason to think the shroud had anything to do with Jesus, since it could look like anyone. Even if it was from a person that was crucified, it could have been from any of the thousands of poor saps that met their fate in that manner during those times.

 

[GLam1761]

Just as the Messianic line of Jesus, the Apostolic
line of Popes from Peter is valid, messy in some parts tho it
is, I believe firmly in the Apostolic Succession of
the Holy Orders of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Kei]

I’d say it is closer to 80%, but I am far too aware of the sorry state of affairs. It is also worrisome that one would not be concerned here.

 

[Gab123]

Fair enough. Then this is no reason to think the shroud had anything to do with Jesus, since it could look like anyone. Even if it was from a person that was crucified, it could have been from any of the thousands of poor saps that met their fate in that manner during those times.

Yes, except for the punctures of a crown of thorns and the wound in the side, plus all the actual evidence of the cloth, from the weave of the the shroud to all the microorganisms found in it. But also because science itself cannot explain it. Here’s a Jewish man who has a website that puts it all together. Go read it and then see what you think. http://www.shroud.com

 

[russ1]

I am neither unfriendly or painfully shy. In fact, my career required me to be the opposite of that, thrust into crowds, speaking one on one with attendees and often speaking from a podium. I think I had too much of that, because I am not a fan of just talking to somebody because we go to the same church. I’m not a club joiner.
I just want to go to mass in peace. there are people like me in the world. If someone does reach out to me I will of course engage them and talk about whatever it is that they want to discuss politely and even gregariously. But I don’t ever start the conversation and I silently hope nobody wants to reach out to me. That’s all.