Loyalty to the Pope or Church

[mrS4ntA]

WanderingCathol:

If you want to follow heresy go right ahead. your soul is in danger of being lost forever.

Yes, he is the pope. He is a heretodox pope and we pray that the next one will be orthodox.

Certainly, I have never heard of him teaching any heresy - or any other of his predecessors - proof of the Holy Ghost’s protection from errors, his infallibility. Orthodox or not has not anything to do with his infallibility.

Now, do you have any proof - any teaching issued ex cathedra of him, or any pope that is a heresy? I doubt not.

 

[jc_escobar]

WanderingCathol:

I have done that already.

Saying that muslim, jews and heretics worship the same god. I provided

We shall praise St. Gregory the Great who expressly testifies that this indeed is the teaching of the Catholic Church. He says: "The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.

First of all Wandering Cathol. You have not given the exact quote where H.H. Pope John Paul II said what you are saying he said.

Second, I think that before you start accusing a Pope of being a heretic you must learn how to read. In the quote of St. Gregory the Great, he never said that only the Catholic Church worships the True God. He said that only in the Catholic Church can God be worshiped truly. Meaning in the absolutely correct way. In words that may be easyer for you to read: Only in the Catholic Church is God worshiped the way he likes it.

There is only ONE God and whoever, beleiving in his/her heart that he worships or prays to him, will be praying or worshiping the true God. The fact that maybe he is not doing it the propper way (Through our Lord Jesus Christ) has nothing to do with it. God is still God and there is no other God, He is The Lord our God.

Therefore, yes the Jews and Muslims worship the same God as we do. They just don’t know how to do it. Because they were misslead to believe something that is not true (like the muslims) or not to believe something that Is True (like the Jews) at some point in time. But if you look at their lives and see that there is no way for most of them to know better you would realize the tremendous work of Charity and convertion that H.H. John Paul II is doing by praying with them. Hence letting them have a glance of how the True Church worship the True God.

Blessings,
J.C.

 

[WanderingCathol]

jc_escobar:

First of all Wandering Cathol. You have not given the exact quote where H.H. Pope John Paul II said what you are saying he said.

Second, I think that before you start accusing a Pope of being a heretic you must learn how to read. In the quote of St. Gregory the Great, he never said that only the Catholic Church worships the True God. He said that only in the Catholic Church can God be worshiped truly. Meaning in the absolutely correct way. In words that may be easyer for you to read: Only in the Catholic Church is God worshiped the way he likes it.

There is only ONE God and whoever, beleiving in his/her heart that he worships or prays to him, will be praying or worshiping the true God. The fact that maybe he is not doing it the propper way (Through our Lord Jesus Christ) has nothing to do with it. God is still God and there is no other God, He is The Lord our God.

Therefore, yes the Jews and Muslims worship the same God as we do. They just don’t know how to do it. Because they were misslead to believe something that is not true (like the muslims) or not to believe something that Is True (like the Jews) at some point in time. But if you look at their lives and see that there is no way for most of them to know better you would realize the tremendous work of Charity and convertion that H.H. John Paul II is doing by praying with them. Hence letting them have a glance of how the True Church worship the True God.

Blessings,
J.C.

Heresy to say that the muslim and christian worship the same God. But you are also an adherent to the modernist heresy. How far has the church fallen.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

WanderingCatholic,

Pope Pius IX (1846-1878), in his syllabus of errors, listed the following erroneous proposition…

16. In the worship of any religion whatever, men can find the way to eternal salvation, and can attain eternal salvation.

**17. We must have at least good hope concerning the eternal salvation of all those who in no wise are in the true Church of Christ **

18. Protestantism is nothing else than a different form of the same true Christian religion, in which it is possible to serve God as well as in the Catholic Church.[Pius IX, “Syllabus” or Collection of Modern Errors, Denzinger, 1715-1717)

And from Quanto conficiamur moerore, Pope Piux IX stated:

**… We should mention again and censure a very grave error in which some Catholics are unhappily engaged, who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. Indeed, this is certainly quite contrary to Catholic teaching. **

[Dz 1677]
This pope was no modernist, was he? Everything he states above I believe.
[/quote]

 

[itsjustdave1988]

WanderingCatholic,

According to Lumen Gentium, cited in Pope John Paul II’s *Catechism of the Catholic Church, *par 846:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the [Vatican II] Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation … Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. [Lumen Gentium, 14; cf. *Mk

16:16; Jn 3:5.]
Of course, you accuse Pope John Paul II of heresy because he also teaches …

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation (CCC 848, Paul VI, Lumen Gentium (1964) 16; cf. DS 3866-3872)

Likewise, Pope John Paul II does not excuse those of culpability on account of affected ignorance:

A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed. (CCC 1790)

This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” Paul VI, Gaudium et spes (1965), 16] In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. (CCC 1791)

So, when ignorance IS NOT CHARACTERIZED AS "through no fault of his" as both Pope St. Pius X and Pope John Paul II put it, then the “person is culpable for the evil he commits.”

Pope John Paul II makes clear:

If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. (CCC 1793)

So, in agreement with Pope St. Pius X, when the kind of ignorance the IS NOT “through no fault of his”, the person is “culpable for the evil he commits.”

Yet, you asserted:

Ignorance does not equal a chance at salvation. This is what the modernists teach.

Pope St. Piux X (1903-1914) was certainly no modernist, yet he also taught :

If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation (Catechism of Pope St. Pius X, Q. 29, Article Nine).

Also, about 50 years earlier, Pope Piux IX (1846-1878), who was certainly no modernist either, stated:

"… on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God" (Dz 1647)

… and elswhere he stated:

It is known to us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habit so all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin (Dz 1677)

 

[itsjustdave1988]

WanderingCatholic,

Pope St. Pius X, who you admit is no modernist, quoted favorably from Pius IX in his encyclical against Modernism:

the doctrine of the Modernists offers nothing new - we find it condemned in the Syllabus of Pius IX (*Pascendi Dominici Gregis, *28)
**

Yet, you assert, quite absurdly that:

Ignorance does not equal a chance at salvation. This is what the modernists teach.

Are you aware that you are in opposition to what Pope Pius IX, about 150 years ago asserted was "necessary to hold for certain "? Doesn’t that make you the HERETIC?

God bless,

Dave

 

[itsjustdave1988]

WanderingCatholic said:

It is not my theology but of the orthodox popes.

Rubbish.

 

[jc_escobar]

WanderingCathol:

Heresy to say that the muslim and christian worship the same God. But you are also an adherent to the modernist heresy. How far has the church fallen.

Yea? Says who? You? And then you move on to say “How far has the church fallen”? Are you saying that Jesus lied when he said:

“The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”.
???

Don’t just write to say something. Think before you post.
Can’t you see you are just condemning your self with your words?

Just be humble, accept it: The Pope has the authority, you DON"T have it!

Then you’ll find peace.
I repeat:

“If obedience doesn’t bring you peace, then you are proud” St. Josemaria Escriva.

 

[WanderingCathol]

itsjustdave1988:

WanderingCatholic,

Pope St. Pius X, who you admit is no modernist, quoted favorably from Pius IX in his encyclical against Modernism:

Yet, you assert, quite absurdly that:
Are you aware that you are in opposition to what Pope Pius IX, about 150 years ago asserted was "necessary to hold for certain "? Doesn’t that make you the HERETIC?

God bless,

Dave

the church that pius IX belonged is different than the modernist church of Pope John Paul. It is nothing more than a universalist where everyone is saved and the excuse is their " Ignorance".

They teach an ignorance of faith which is different from the current pope.

 

[WanderingCathol]

itsjustdave1988:

WanderingCatholic,

Pope St. Pius X, who you admit is no modernist, quoted favorably from Pius IX in his encyclical against Modernism:

Yet, you assert, quite absurdly that:
Are you aware that you are in opposition to what Pope Pius IX, about 150 years ago asserted was "necessary to hold for certain "? Doesn’t that make you the HERETIC?

God bless,

Dave

Don’t put Pius IX in the same group as the Pope John Paul. I believe everything that Pius IX and X teaches but reject that which comes from pope John Paul as they are not catholic doctrine. Well, some are not.

Pope John Paul compromises the faith in the name of ecumenism. He prays with mulism, hindus, jews and heretics. He declares that muslim worship the same God and kisses their demonic book which denies jesus. He hold prayer meetings ith pagans and invites them to catholic holy sites. disgusting. Desecrating that which is holy in the church.

Refuses to excommunicate those same very priests,bishops and cardinals that are spreading errors. Why?

An orthodox pope would have put and end to the problem.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

They teach an ignorance of faith which is different from the current pope.

In what way? Can you support your thesis with evidence from their teachings?

It seems from the excerpts I have provided, that all these popes of the past 150 years have asserted the same thing:

1. Entering into and remaining within the Catholic Church and obedience to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for eternal salvation.
2. Ignorance is no excuse, unless it is “through no fault of their own” (i.e., invincible ignorance), as mortal sin REQUIRES “full consciousness” of the gravity of the sin or else it is not mortal sin. Yet, even then, invincible ignorance by itself is insufficient for salvation.
3. One must ALSO implicitly or explicitly desire baptism and keep zealously the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God. In otherwords, nobody is deemed invincibly ignorant of the moral law written in the hearts of men by God.

God bless,

Dave

 

[Matthew]

itsjustdave1988:

In what way? Can you support your thesis with evidence from their teachings?

It seems from the excerpts I have provided, that all these popes of the past 150 years have asserted the same thing:

1. Entering into and remaining within the Catholic Church and obedience to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for eternal salvation.
2. Ignorance is no excuse, unless it is “through no fault of their own” (i.e., invincible ignorance), as mortal sin REQUIRES “full consciousness” of the gravity of the sin or else it is not mortal sin. Yet, even then, invincible ignorance by itself is insufficient for salvation.
3. One must ALSO implicitly or explicitly desire baptism and keep zealously the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God. In otherwords, nobody is deemed invincibly ignorant of the moral law written in the hearts of men by God.

God bless,

Dave

Dave,

Can you explain the anatomy of “implicit desire”? How does one sufficiently desire an object when that very object is completely absent and transcends the mode of the natural intellect? Keep in mind that one cannot arrive at a desire for or even remote knowledge of baptism by natural reason alone. Also, you seem to imply that one can be saved by following the natural law. Tell me, why did Jesus Christ die on the Cross if that is true? I do not mean that sarcastically, it just seems to me that we have forgotten Pius XII’s warning that liberalizing the dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus renders it an utterly meaningless formula.

 

[system]

Here W.C have a read olrl.org/apologetics/one_church.shtml

 

[Malachi4U]

WanderingCathol:

When he says that the church of christ subsits in the catholic church. When traditions says and has alway taught that the catholic church is the christ’s church.

when he prays with jews, muslims, etc.

when traditions teaches one never to pray with heretics.

These are just two examples that are troubling to me. I really believe that he is a saintly man but in my judgment he has inadvertently brought scandal to the church.

Theophilus,

Part 1, I ran out-a-room!

Strange, I thought Jesus was a Jew? Should we not pray with Jesus?

Have you been listening to errant sect preachers and been misguided? Don’t worry, my preacher used to, and still does say the very same thing (he is my former preacher whom I still have contact with. A very good man but I don’t ‘see’ in Scripture any more what he claims is there. The Holy Spirit has lifted the ‘scales off my eyes’ as I hope he will yours by the time you read Scripture I quoted below) .

I think the point is this, you can pray with people just not to their false gods. I live in Uah and every time a public prayer starts at a rodeo or football game it goes something like this, “Heavenly Father…blah, blah, blah. Amen” Can you tell the difference? Jesus told us to take our light into the world and shine it brightly so all may see. Do not hide your light from those that need it for their souls. We have Baptist preachers that won’t join the Interfaith Grourp right here in my town. As a result, they violate Gods desire to shine our light. So much for obedience to Gods Word? Our parish acctually has many LDS (Mormons) come to it with questions and conversions because we do as Jesus commanded and take our Faith to those who need it. Our relegious education even uses the Mormon seminary to educate Catholic children with Catholic teachers of course. (LONG LONG topic here, I thought RC’s using a Mormon seminary was a vile abomination when I attended the Baptist church. It was another obsticle in my reconciliation with God and His Church in Rome.)

Christianity would have died the day Jesus died had He not gone to the sinners. Don’t be too good to associate with sinners like some preachers I know. A soul is a wonderfull thing and even sinners like me and all the others you mentioned have them. Jesus loves them, shouldn’t you? If Jesus came today would you want Him in your church teaching or in a LDS temple? Remember who Jesus associated with? Remember who He was accused of being with? Remember who He came to save? If the Master came to my parish and asked the priest to step aside so that He could minister, I would know my Faith was false if based on the past practice of Jesus only going to sinners. Let Jesus go to the Temple, Mosque, Ward, protestant sect church, etc. and correct them or save them. (Not that I wouldn’t love to see Jesus in person. Its just a point I’m making here.)

I welcome the opportunity to show my Faith to those who don’t have it. Gandi once said something like this, “I once wanted to be a Christian - till I met one!” Don’t ever be like some sects that shune others in their better then thou snobbish attitude. Its no wonder I meet Mormons every day with low opinions of discriminatory, bigoted sects. Catholics are not bigots. Sinners are welcome to attend our Mass because it is their Mass too. Go out, find a Moslem and ask him to knell down and pray with you. Show him your Faith, not your backside.

 

[Malachi4U]

Part too!

I lost part too! I hate it when tht happens!

It went something like this:

The Pope has countless theologians working with him. He is also a respected theologian too. He has 2,000 years of theological history and research available to him. Based on this I’d say he does a pretty good job.

He can error but is infallible only when speaking ex-cathedra in accordance with many guidelines. There has never been an infallable statement by a Pope during my lifetime that I am aware of. That how rare they are. The last one was in the 1950’s I think?

I rejected the authority of the Pope and depsied it when I attended Baptist churches, now I charish the authority and leadership of the Pope.

The Bible is a product of the Catholic Church and not vice versa. Protestant sects are schimatics off of the ‘Roman’ Catholic Church and the Catholic Bible.

A prisoner of Christ

For bieing a light:

*Lk 11:33-36 "**33 **"No one who lights a lamp hides it away or places it (under a bushel basket), but on a lampstand so that those who enter might see the light. **34 **The lamp of the body is your eye. When your eye is sound, then your whole body is filled with light, but when it is bad, then your body is in darkness. **35 **Take care, then, that the light in you not become darkness. **36 *If your whole body is full of light, and no part of it is in darkness, then it will be as full of light as a lamp illuminating you with its brightness."

*Phil 2:12-15 "**12 **So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. **13 **For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work. **14 **Do everything without grumbling or questioning, **15 *that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine like lights in the world,"

*2 Pe 1:19-21 "Moreover, we possess the prophetic message that is altogether reliable. You will do well to be attentive to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. **20 **Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, **21 *for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.
**
A ‘few of many’ for the Pope:
**
*Mt 18:18-19 “18 Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again, (amen,) I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.”

---

Mt 16:18-19 “18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
**
*Acts 20:28-30 “28 Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. 30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.”
*

 

[mrS4ntA]

Malachi4U:

Theophilus,

Part 1, I ran out-a-room!

Strange, I thought Jesus was a Jew? Should we not pray with Jesus?

Have you been listening to errant sect preachers and been misguided? Don’t worry, my preacher used to, and still does say the very same thing (he is my former preacher whom I still have contact with. A very good man but I don’t ‘see’ in Scripture any more what he claims is there. The Holy Spirit has lifted the ‘scales off my eyes’ as I hope he will yours by the time you read Scripture I quoted below) .

I think the point is this, you can pray with people just not to their false gods. I live in Uah and every time a public prayer starts at a rodeo or football game it goes something like this, “Heavenly Father…blah, blah, blah. Amen” Can you tell the difference? Jesus told us to take our light into the world and shine it brightly so all may see. Do not hide your light from those that need it for their souls. We have Baptist preachers that won’t join the Interfaith Grourp right here in my town. As a result, they violate Gods desire to shine our light. So much for obedience to Gods Word? Our parish acctually has many LDS (Mormons) come to it with questions and conversions because we do as Jesus commanded and take our Faith to those who need it. Our relegious education even uses the Mormon seminary to educate Catholic children with Catholic teachers of course. (LONG LONG topic here, I thought RC’s using a Mormon seminary was a vile abomination when I attended the Baptist church. It was another obsticle in my reconciliation with God and His Church in Rome.)

Christianity would have died the day Jesus died had He not gone to the sinners. Don’t be too good to associate with sinners like some preachers I know. A soul is a wonderfull thing and even sinners like me and all the others you mentioned have them. Jesus loves them, shouldn’t you? If Jesus came today would you want Him in your church teaching or in a LDS temple? Remember who Jesus associated with? Remember who He was accused of being with? Remember who He came to save? If the Master came to my parish and asked the priest to step aside so that He could minister, I would know my Faith was false if based on the past practice of Jesus only going to sinners. Let Jesus go to the Temple, Mosque, Ward, protestant sect church, etc. and correct them or save them. (Not that I wouldn’t love to see Jesus in person. Its just a point I’m making here.)

I welcome the opportunity to show my Faith to those who don’t have it. Gandi once said something like this, “I once wanted to be a Christian - till I met one!” Don’t ever be like some sects that shune others in their better then thou snobbish attitude. Its no wonder I meet Mormons every day with low opinions of discriminatory, bigoted sects. Catholics are not bigots. Sinners are welcome to attend our Mass because it is their Mass too. Go out, find a Moslem and ask him to knell down and pray with you. Show him your Faith, not your backside.

Hear! Hear!
If we (example: JP2) would not relate/reach out to others, even of different backgrounds, religions, etc; how EVER can we “spread the Good News” as Jesus commanded us? Should we just jealously keep the TRUTH to ourselves? of course not! Evangelisation is a major part of being a Christian, and what JP2 did was certainly NOT diabolical, for yes, we can pray WITH others and not TO their god(s).

btw, the Cathecism says the God of Muslims and Jews is the same God we worship: the Almighty (although of course, their perceptions/understandings to His trinitarian nature is limited)

 

[Mandi]

mrS4ntA:

btw, the Cathecism says the God of Muslims and Jews is the same God we worship: the Almighty (although of course, their perceptions/understandings to His trinitarian nature is limited)

Could you provide information, - In what Catechism would I find that the Muslims and Jews worship the same God as Catholics.

1st - Muslims not not believe that Jesus is God - they accept Him as a Holy man but not God.

2nd - Jews do not believe in The Holy Trinity - They do not acknowledge Jesus and the Holy Ghost as God.

These are not minor differences - God is GOD!
Their perceptions/understandings to His Trinitarian nature is not limited it is non existent and unbelieved!!!

 

[mrS4ntA]

Mandi:

Could you provide information, - In what Catechism would I find that the Muslims and Jews worship the same God as Catholics.

Gladly. Here:

*The Church and non-Christians
839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”[325]
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] “the first to hear the Word of God.”[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,[328] “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”[329]

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”[332]

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.[333] *

So you see, even though they worship the same, God, what they don’t know is the Truth about Him - His trinitarian truth.
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.[334]*

So, it is still held that extra ecclesiam nvlla salvs, that only within the Church where the whole and true Truth is revealed lies God’s salvation for man.

Lumen Christi vobis cvm,
S4ntA.

 

[Mandi]

mrS4ntA:

Gladly. Here:

The Church and non-Christians
839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”[325]
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] “the first to hear the Word of God.”[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the - etc. etc.

Well there we have it??? No wonder the Chruch has been in such bad decline for the last 40 years!

my 1st thought was that if this is present day Catholic teaching no wonder there is no need to belong to the Catholic Church. So maybe I’ll just go join the local community church (where they really have a good time - ha!)

My 2nd thought - So just what do the Muslims believe that could be considered worshipping to the same God as mine. (Internet is very handy - right at my finger tips) Muslims believe in a supreme being they call Allah. Aside from believing in a supreme being there is nothing there that resembles the Catholic Church.

Okay now my 3rd thought. - All those poor Saints of 2000 years ago being tortured and murdered for refusing to adore or acknowledge false gods - silly them (if only they had known!)

There are some other threads on this board that are presently exploring and accusing the Pope of being a heretic - (Myself not presently getting involved…but after looking at this teaching (which by the way can you tell me exactly where it is from) I am forced to acknowledge that this is NOT Catholic teaching!!! And has never been for 2000 years until now!
I feel sorry for those Catholis who don’t think this is a problem.

May God have mercy on us all!

 

[Mandi]

I just wanted to share something else regarding this. Here is a quote from the book “The Dogma of Hell” by Father F.X. Schouppe, S.J. 1883 -“The Vatican Library”

“Our own age is not different. During roughly the past 100 years, starting in the late 19th century, there has arisen a heresy called “Modernism,” which is somewhat indefinite in its beliefs - because it allows people to believe, really, whatever they want, “whatever is meaningful” to them. One of the principal tenets of Modernism is the idea that “doctrine evolves” and that what was once held by Christians in former times might not necessarily be true today. In this respect, Modernism is really “relativism,” that is the notion that truth is relative to the mind, rather than an objective fact which the mind knows and which is always and everywhere true, whether people acknowledge it to be true or not.
Modernism was formally condemned in 1907 by Pope St. Pius X (1903-1914) in his encyclical letter to the entire Catholic world entitled Pascendi Dominici Gregis (On Modernism, September 7, 1907). Therefore, anyone who holds to the tenents of Modernism is not and cannot be at the same time a Catholic, because the two belief systems are antithetical (opposed to each other, contradictory).
Let us take as an example a person who has been a lax Catholic and has not studied or practiced his Faith, or even a non-Catholic who has become interested in becoming a Catholic. During the reading of exposition of the Catholic Faith, or by association with some knowledgeable Catholic, he then comes to learn what the Catholic Church really teaches. Later, in discussing these traditional Catholic teachings with others who call themselves “Catholic” (but are really Modernists), he hears something like, “Oh, that old stuff! The Church doesn’t teach that anymore.” Or another varition of the same idea, “The Church used to teach that, but she doesn’t anymore.”
As soon as one hears this type of comment, he should realize he is in the company of a Modernist, a person who holds to a heresy formally condemened by the Catholic Church in this very century. Such a comment should be an immediate warning signal that this person does not believe correctly and is therefore not a Catholic.”

I find it funny that this was the teaching right before we took all that “old stuff” and shoved it under a carpet.

Staying loyal to the Pope is becoming an increasingly hard thing to do, if one wants to remain Catholic!