(Luke 6:46) "Why do you call me, 'Lord,Lord' and not do what I say?"

[Nicene]

Giver:

Just saying you believe in Jesus and that you know him, doesn’t mean much, Satan believes he is God also.

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Back atcha.

Jesus sent you here to hear from those who hear His voice truly yet you aren’t listening. Through sacred scripture, led by the voice of Christ and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, people have easily refuted your errancy. Ever wonder why?

Heb 3:15 While it is said, Today if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in that provocation.

Is your heart hardened?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[montanaman]

Giver:

Jim, when Jesus started teaching me and I saw that there was much of what I was being taught which didn’t go along with what I had been taught by the Church, I had a hard time and asked Jesus how I could stay submitted to the Church and not accept it’s teachings? Jesus told me not to summit, but to co-operate with. Letting me know I was no longer under the Churches authority, and I was to help not fight. My job is to give a word to his people in and out of the Catholic Church.

New revelation, huh? Stunning.

 

[Philthy]

Giver:

Yes I’m sure you can feel the Host, and taste the wine, but when is the last time the Host spoke to you?

Hi Giver-

The last, most memorable time was about 6 months ago when he told me some things I needed to hear and loved me very deeply in the process. Again, Im not sure what is your point?

BTW, Im disappointed to see that you have apparently decided to leave the discussion at the “Sola Scriptura - Now I get it” thread. We were making some good progress and, I was waiting for you to simply explain how your understanding of obedience to Christ was in conflict with the Catholic Church. You really should either retract that allegation or substantiate it. It is most certainly unChristlike to make such a claim, pretend to support it with Scripture and then - when questioned about the relationship between that Scripture and the alleged contradiction with Catholic teaching - disappear from the thread only to start another.
Yup, you have a responsibility now that you have posted to do the right thing - actions are so much more profound than words - especially for those closest to Christ. I know you know that, or at least I would have expected this much from what you have shared so far. Continuing to ignore the responsibility that you have placed upon yourself - through your allegations under the commandment not to bear false witness - calls into question the origin, validity and sincerity of everything you say.

 

[montanaman]

Giver–the Bible says that you must be sent–you can’t just claim you’re a prophet or apostle. You have a new gospel, so prove that you’ve been sent.

Thanks.

 

[montanaman]

I’m starting to think that attention is just what is galactic-sized vanity craves. He doesn’t care a whit about bringing anyone into the truth–his or God’s. He just likes to play-act.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

No one has ever shown me where I’m in error Scripturally; I get a lot of Catholic Church teachings that make Scripture say things that it doesn’t say, which of course you say tells me I’m wrong, but really all I am is in disagreement with some Catholic teachings.

When I read comments like this I normally just want to laugh out loud. In your case it simply makes me sad. Your gripes concerning Catholic teaching have been refuted time and again. You simply will not accept the truth even when it stares you in the face.

You unwittingly take a position that says, "My mind is made up, please do not attempt to confuse me with the facts."

Your knowledge of scripture is very limited. You self limit your knowledge and understanding of scripture by cherry picking texts that you think will support your erroneous views. When confronted with explanations concerning the scriptures you’ve chosen as well as scriptures that directly contradict your misinterpretations you simply ignore them. Morevoer, you have ignored virtually every argument presented to you. The refutations that you have presented are grossly inadequate yet you alone find them satisfying.

Your gift is in promoting and encouraging holiness. Scriptural interpretation, as well as doctrinal and theological speculations are not your forte. For whatever reason, the Lord has not given you the tools or gifts in these latter areas. It is just as scripture says in 1 Cor 12:28-30

“And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?”

Clearly not everyone is given these gifts. You need to be humble enough to realize that you have limitations and that you lack certain gifts and that you should not refuse to be taught by others.

 

[Giver]

St.Eric:

I have been a member on the forums for a few months now. I definetly see one trend. There are a few non-catholics around here that have the same claim. It is getting kind of humorous really. It is the same old formula. "I have been a Catholic for XXX number of years and didnt really FEEL anything in the church. Then I had a conversion experience, etc, etc, yada yada. " And then they really begin to betray themselves when they post. There is no understanding of the faith and morals of the church. This becomes clear after a few posts.Anyway. Just be honest people. YOu don’t have to try and keep up a charade of “I was Catholic”. just let us know where you are really coming from. Giver (Robert), be honest. Let us know that you are the Pope for the church of Giver and you had a St.John like Revelation that called you to found Christ’s true church on Giver the Rock. At least we can have an honest exchange this way. Thank you.

Maybe you should go and ask Jesus what you could say constructive to all the falling away Catholics you’re writing about.

By the way I don’t believe there was anything about my feelings from or for the Church in what I shared. My sharing that I was Catholic was in response to a statement someone made that I didn’t know anything about the Catholic Church.

 

[montanaman]

Giver:

Maybe you should go and ask Jesus what you could say constructive to all the falling away Catholics you’re writing about.

By the way I don’t believe there was anything about my feelings from or for the Church in what I shared. My sharing that I was Catholic was in response to a statement someone made that I didn’t know anything about the Catholic Church.

Well, you know that it exists. That much is true…

 

[Giver]

Nicene:

Back atcha.

Jesus sent you here to hear from those who hear His voice truly yet you aren’t listening. Through sacred scripture, led by the voice of Christ and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, people have easily refuted your errancy. Ever wonder why?

Heb 3:15 While it is said, Today if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in that provocation.

Is your heart hardened?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

You say people have shown me where I am Scripturally off, well show me where I said anything that isn’t word for word, in the Bible, if you can.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

Jim, when Jesus started teaching me and I saw that there was much of what I was being taught which didn’t go along with what I had been taught by the Church, I had a hard time and asked Jesus how I could stay submitted to the Church and not accept it’s teachings? Jesus told me not to summit, but to co-operate with. Letting me know I was no longer under the Churches authority, and I was to help not fight. My job is to give a word to his people in and out of the Catholic Church.

Robert,

You have mentally placed yourself in a closed loop and refuse to listen to anyone. You even admitted this to me in a PM a few months ago. Moreover, you even said that you do not read anything and that it is just you and Jesus. The reason that you are having problems is that you are not following the scriptural command to test the spirits.

You are not able to distinguish between what Jesus is giving you and what your imagination is simply manufacturing.

At least coming to these boards is providing you with an opportunity to have your thoughts challenged and tested so that you can see the errors that have crept into your thinking because of the closed loop that encapsulates your mind. The Holy Spirit has led you to these forums so that you will receive something. You have not been led to these forums to correct Catholic teaching. Instead, you have been lead here in order to get your own errors exposed and corrected.

 

[montanaman]

Pax:

Robert,

You are not able to distinguish between what Jesus is giving you and what your imagination is simply manufacturing.

Or, he’s being decieved. I tend to think it’s a combination of both.

 

[Giver]

Pax:

When I read comments like this I normally just want to laugh out loud. In your case it simply makes me sad. Your gripes concerning Catholic teaching have been refuted time and again. You simply will not accept the truth even when it stares you in the face.

You unwittingly take a position that says, "My mind is made up, please do not attempt to confuse me with the facts."

Your knowledge of scripture is very limited. You self limit your knowledge and understanding of scripture by cherry picking texts that you think will support your erroneous views. When confronted with explanations concerning the scriptures you’ve chosen as well as scriptures that directly contradict your misinterpretations you simply ignore them. Morevoer, you have ignored virtually every argument presented to you. The refutations that you have presented are grossly inadequate yet you alone find them satisfying.

Your gift is in promoting and encouraging holiness. Scriptural interpretation, as well as doctrinal and theological speculations are not your forte. For whatever reason, the Lord has not given you the tools or gifts in these latter areas. It is just as scripture says in 1 Cor 12:28-30

“And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?”

Clearly not everyone is given these gifts. You need to be humble enough to realize that you have limitations and that you lack certain gifts and that you should not refuse to be taught by others.

Pax, you go ahead and keep laughing, because all you have ever proven in our correspondence is that when ever I quote a scripture you have to say it doesn’t mean what it says. I guess by saying you have to laugh is to belittle me so you can seem right.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

You say people have shown me where I am Scripturally off, well show me where I said anything that isn’t word for word, in the Bible, if you can.

Okay, since you asked for it.

You said that prior to Pentecost Peter only new that Jesus was a “special man” and that he didn’t know him as God. We hammered that nonsensical statement with Matthew 16:16-17 which says:

" Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.”

I could go on and on but you should simply try doing what everyone has suggested to you. Go back and read all of the treads you started and carefully read all of the refutations given to you. So far it appears that you absorb very little of what is said to you.

I also recommend that you read John Chapter 17 and also consider all of the following:

Eph 4:1-5
I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Phi 1:27
Only, live your life in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that, whether I come and see you or am absent and hear about you, I will know that you are standing firm in one spirit, striving side by side with** one mind** for the faith of the gospel,

Phi 2:1-2
If then there is any encouragement in Christ, any consolation from love, any sharing in the Spirit, any compassion and sympathy, make my joy complete: be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

After having read John 17 and the above quotes, please try to see and explain how your going it alone and developing your own doctrines helps unite you to the one church which is the body of Christ.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

Pax, you go ahead and keep laughing, because all you have ever proven in our correspondence is that when ever I quote a scripture you have to say it doesn’t mean what it says. I guess by saying you have to laugh is to belittle me so you can seem right.

Another perfect example of not absorbing what is said to you. I am not laughing. Go back and read my post. As I said, "In your case it simply makes me sad."

 

[Pax]

Giver:

Pax, you go ahead and keep laughing, because all you have ever proven in our correspondence is that when ever I quote a scripture you have to say it doesn’t mean what it says. I guess by saying you have to laugh is to belittle me so you can seem right.

I do not belittle you. You are upset and take things personally because we vigorously disagree with you. We also present arguments and scripture that refute what you say. I do not do anything in the interest of making myself “seem right.” My goal in all things is to seek the truth, find the truth, and defend the truth. I have been shown to be in error and I am glad to have it pointed out to me because I hunger and thirst for the truth.

Please stop being offended and taking things personally as if I am trying to belittle you. I am trying desperately to help you. I have praised you for your love of God and your recognition of the need for holiness. This is a great gift provided to you by the Holy Spirit. Clearly the Lord has given you an abundance of charity.

This does not translate into making your theological and doctrinal speculations correct. Sincerity doesn’t make a person right either. It is when you have the truth that you are right. In some things you have the truth and in others you do not. Unfortunately, you think that everything you say is correct even when evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. Your quoted statement above shows just how closed minded and stubborn you are. You do not believe that anyone has proven anything of substance to you. This is simply untrue.

Examples of where your opinions were disproven are to be found in the discussions on “Call No Man Father,” “The Ministerial Priesthood,” and “Self Defense.” Everyone disagreed with you and presented excellent and persuasive evidence but you simply rejected it.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

Pax, you go ahead and keep laughing, because all you have ever proven in our correspondence is that when ever I quote a scripture you have to say it doesn’t mean what it says. I guess by saying you have to laugh is to belittle me so you can seem right.

I have never said or argued that any verse of scripture doesn’t mean what it says. I have argued that what “you” claim is not what it means or says. In other words, it is your interpretation and application of scripture that I disagree with.

 

[Giver]

Pax:

Okay, since you asked for it.

You said that prior to Pentecost Peter only new that Jesus was a “special man” and that he didn’t know him as God. We hammered that nonsensical statement with Matthew 16:16-17 which says:

" Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.”

I could go on and on but you should simply try doing what everyone has suggested to you. Go back and read all of the treads you started and carefully read all of the refutations given to you. So far it appears that you absorb very little of what is said to you.

I also recommend that you read John Chapter 17 and also consider all of the following:

Eph 4:1-5
I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Phi 1:27
Only, live your life in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that, whether I come and see you or am absent and hear about you, I will know that you are standing firm in one spirit, striving side by side with** one mind** for the faith of the gospel,

Phi 2:1-2
If then there is any encouragement in Christ, any consolation from love, any sharing in the Spirit, any compassion and sympathy, make my joy complete: be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

After having read John 17 and the above quotes, please try to see how your going it alone and developing your own doctrines helps unite you to the one church which is the body of Christ.

Pax, because Peter had not as of yet been baptized with the Holy Spirit he didn’t as of yet have the mind of Christ and so couldn’t know God. He believed he was God but to know God a person has to have the Holy Spirit. Remember you were trying to prove that someone could know God and still sin, well that would make John a liar wouldn’t it? : (1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

The rest of this post is making the assumption that someone has to be a Roman Catholic to be part of the body of Christ. Well Jesus didn’t tell us that did he?

Mark 9:38 – 40) “John said to Him, ‘Master, we saw a man who is not one of us casting out devils in your name; and because he was not one of us we tried to stop him’. But Jesus said, ‘you must not stop him: no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to speak evil of me. Anyone who is not against us is

 

[montanaman]

Giver:

Pax, because Peter had not as of yet been baptized with the Holy Spirit he didn’t as of yet have the mind of Christ and so couldn’t know God. He believed he was God but to know God a person has to have the Holy Spirit. Remember you were trying to prove that someone could know God and still sin, well that would make John a liar wouldn’t it? : (1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

The rest of this post is making the assumption that someone has to be a Roman Catholic to be part of the body of Christ. Well Jesus didn’t tell us that did he?

Mark 9:38 – 40) “John said to Him, ‘Master, we saw a man who is not one of us casting out devils in your name; and because he was not one of us we tried to stop him’. But Jesus said, ‘you must not stop him: no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to speak evil of me. Anyone who is not against us is

Sorry, Giver, but that was a definitve “own” as they sometimes say on these boards. Pax showed that Peter knew Jesus. Case closed. You’re either a false prophet, a liar, under the influence of the devil, or schizophrenic. “Giver” it up, man. Move on to other boards. I think that even your brand of self-referential theology would be better than the nothingness that some people are mired in.

Wait–I’m sorry, there must be a gas leak in my house. That was completely untrue.

 

[Giver]

montanaman:

Sorry, Giver, but that was a definitve “own” as they sometimes say on these boards. Pax showed that Peter knew Jesus. Case closed. You’re either a false prophet, a liar, under the influence of the devil, or schizophrenic. “Giver” it up, man. Move on to other boards. I think that even your brand of self-referential theology would be better than the nothingness that some people are mired in.

Wait–I’m sorry, there must be a gas leak in my house. That was completely untrue.

Believe what you want to believe, but you are wrong.

 

[montanaman]

Giver:

Believe what you want to believe, but you are wrong.

No, you’re wrong.

Isn’t that fun? Remove yourself from the teachings of Christ, and set yourself up as the only infallible authority, and this is what it comes to–the equivalent of a third grade debate. Keep up your false prophecies and heretical assertions, and I’m telling on you.