Lying to a Spouse

  • Thread starter Thread starter gavin52
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you look at the Ten Commandments it’s interesting that there is no commandment that says, “Thou shalt not lie.” There is one that prohibits false witness and there is one that prohibits stealing. (I realize there are more than 10 commandments in the Old Testament and plenty of condemnation of lying in both Old and New.)

But my point is that “lying” can be a sin against either or both of the commandments I mentioned. In one case you are using information, whether actual or fabricated, to hurt someone. In the other you are depriving them of information to which they are entitled.

If someone asks for infomation to which he is not entitled then I think it is right of the person with the information to withhold it. If someone asks for information and they have a questionable right to it and disclosing that information is likely to cause harm to someone, then the person with the information has the right to withhold it. There is usually some way to avoid giving information without being harsh or cruel, but not always.

If a person asks for information and they are clearly entitled to it, the person with the information needs to turn it over. If one has information that clearly should belong to another, then they need to turn it over, whether asked or not. In either case, the person with the information ought (IMO) to have some control over how the information is delivered so that ‘dangerous’ information does the least harm.

The big problem is knowing whether the person asking is entitled to the information. For instance, is a spouse entitled to information about the other spouse’s fidelity?

This has already been mentioned but many of us have difficulty distinguishing between idioms of language and the more objective meaning. For instance, when someone asks, “How are you?” that objectively looks like a request for information. In common usage, however, it is really just a greeting like “Hello.” As a result, a perfectly proper response is, “Fine,” even if one is in terrible straits. Questions like, “How do I look?” or “Did you like my gift?” are really not much different. They are kind of ritualized questions and answers. The problems come along when one or both of the parties fail to understand the nature of the interchange. If someone asks such a question and REALLY wants an objective answer, I think they owe it to the other person to make that clear. In any case, I’m not sure ‘lying’ is necessarily applicable in such situations unless it is clear to both parties that an objective answer is expected.
 
40.png
SMHW:
The big problem is knowing whether the person asking is entitled to the information. For instance, is a spouse entitled to information about the other spouse’s fidelity?
I don’t know about other marriages, but my husband and I operate on the basis that the other is rightfully entitled to know anything and everything. Radical honesty. The bigger or more important the issue, the more important it is that we share the information without being asked.

Infedelity is a point I believe the spouse has a right to know, just like any other. It will cause pain. But covering it up will mean the errant spouse is hiding a piece of himself, his history, his thoughts, and his emotions from his spouse. (I chose masculine as I always revert to it when speaking in the singular with unknown gender.) By facing it together (and/or with a counselor) they will be able to move beyond what happened to allow the infedelity, they will be able to support each other, and they will both be able to move beyond it in the ways they see best. When the errant spouse gets moody or sour or introspective or whatever, or when she says something that was one of the things that drove him crazy, there are so many circumstances that he will have this memory and it will affect her, but she will have no comprehension on why. She deserves to know everything going on with him and he has an obligation to go to her if she doesn’t ask.

One that gets me is men who don’t tell their wives that they aren’t doing as well as they would like financially. They figure they can ride over it and not worry her.

Why do these people think they are so much better than their spouses? That they can handle the truth but their spouses cannot? How degrading!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMHW
The big problem is knowing whether the person asking is entitled to the information. For instance, is a spouse entitled to information about the other spouse’s fidelity?
40.png
Forest-Pine:
I don’t know about other marriages, but my husband and I operate on the basis that the other is rightfully entitled to know anything and everything. Radical honesty. The bigger or more important the issue, the more important it is that we share the information without being asked.
I think this is an important area of discussion and probably deserves a thread all its own. I suspect not everyone agrees about the radical honesty part. I certainly think it is the ideal. But since we live in a world of time and space I think there can be limits on ‘how much’ honesty is delivered at any given point. Sometimes the truth can wait for tomorrow and it doesn’t always need to be handed over at once. But it does need to be delivered.
 
I have to admit, when my husband rattles on about some story I’ve heard him tell the past 13 years, I kinda, day dream because I know it just sooooo well, and, then he goes “you listening?” and I’m (of course I am) I hate that I do that but oh, sometimes, yikes, I mean, if I do that to him and he says he’s listening and he’s not, I certainly would not be upset over it.

I have also done the white lies : you look great in that shirt
No those don’t make you look fat, um, your haircut is just spiffy, I just don’t have the heart to tell the truth and I know on that stuff he does fib to me.

One day I blew out my hair and curled it ( I have curly hair) and I was thinking, wow, that looks pretty good and I asked my hubby, do you like? And first he said, yeah, its fine and I did not like how he said it and I said, just tell me the truth and he admitted that he liked it curly better, boom , I was in the bathroom washing my hair right away 😃
 
40.png
Madia:
How do you think that woman will feel if she finds out that outfit did make her butt look fat? Do you think she’ll be glad that her husband lied to her? Do you think it’s right for her husband to feed her vanity?
The problem with your question goes a little bit deeper than that. You are making a presumption that when the wife asks the question, she is actually seeking information concerning the outfit. That presumption - which men often make, and they are certainly accused of in discussions about conversation styles - is not necessarily well founded.

She may well be asking an entirely different question; the question she may be asking is “Do you affirm me as attractive (still) to you?” and telling her her backside looks big is to give the opposite of information. A guy only has to answer that type of question a few times with factual response, and unless he is dense beyond hope, he will learn that telling her her backside is big is going to reduce her to tears. He learns, from practical experience, what she is really asking. So when he answers that the outfit is fine, he is not lying, he is telling the truth - the truth being that he still loves her. If she is not seeking factual information about the outfit, then he had best not be supplying it.

And that’s no lie.
 
40.png
Forest-Pine:
Infedelity is a point I believe the spouse has a right to know, just like any other. It will cause pain. But covering it up will mean the errant spouse is hiding a piece of himself, his history, his thoughts, and his emotions from his spouse … She deserves to know everything going on with him and he has an obligation to go to her if she doesn’t ask.

One that gets me is men who don’t tell their wives that they aren’t doing as well as they would like financially. They figure they can ride over it and not worry her.

Why do these people think they are so much better than their spouses? That they can handle the truth but their spouses cannot? How degrading!
I disagree really strongly. I don’t think that marrying me obligated my husband to share every thought and emotion he has with me. I find that creepy, to be honest. Yes, we are married (happily, too, and for a long time), but that doesn’t entitle me to know everything that goes on in his head.

Lots of it is boring. (Cars.) Some of it is stuff I’d rather not know. (Did he think that girl in the front row last night who was making cow eyes at him was cute?) Some of it’s none of my business.

Not degrading.
 
40.png
Forest-Pine:
I don’t know about other marriages, but my husband and I operate on the basis that the other is rightfully entitled to know anything and everything. Radical honesty. The bigger or more important the issue, the more important it is that we share the information without being asked.

Infedelity is a point I believe the spouse has a right to know, just like any other. It will cause pain. But covering it up will mean the errant spouse is hiding a piece of himself, his history, his thoughts, and his emotions from his spouse. (I chose masculine as I always revert to it when speaking in the singular with unknown gender.) By facing it together (and/or with a counselor) they will be able to move beyond what happened to allow the infedelity, they will be able to support each other, and they will both be able to move beyond it in the ways they see best. When the errant spouse gets moody or sour or introspective or whatever, or when she says something that was one of the things that drove him crazy, there are so many circumstances that he will have this memory and it will affect her, but she will have no comprehension on why. She deserves to know everything going on with him and he has an obligation to go to her if she doesn’t ask.
her.
If my spouse (hubby) gets moody or sour or introspective or whatever I leave him be. If he wants to tell me whats wrong he will when he’s ready, if he wants to work it out on his own that’s fine too. That’s the way he likes it and I respect that.

In my case my hubby knows if I’m moody ect I want him to ask me what’s wrong. And he does do that, sometimes it takes several prodding “I know something is wrong.” remarks before I finally spit it out.

I don’t need to know every thought, emotion ect that my hubby has. He’s a big boy and he deserves some privacy.
 
40.png
otm:
The problem with your question goes a little bit deeper than that. You are making a presumption that when the wife asks the question, she is actually seeking information concerning the outfit. That presumption - which men often make, and they are certainly accused of in discussions about conversation styles - is not necessarily well founded.

She may well be asking an entirely different question; the question she may be asking is “Do you affirm me as attractive (still) to you?” and telling her her backside looks big is to give the opposite of information. A guy only has to answer that type of question a few times with factual response, and unless he is dense beyond hope, he will learn that telling her her backside is big is going to reduce her to tears. He learns, from practical experience, what she is really asking. So when he answers that the outfit is fine, he is not lying, he is telling the truth - the truth being that he still loves her. If she is not seeking factual information about the outfit, then he had best not be supplying it.

And that’s no lie.
That is a good observation on the nature of language. Lying always involves intent, except possibly for kneejerk responses.

Therefore, if you think that the question being asked pertains to factual information, you would be lying if you did not answer truthfully in that way.

But, if you think that the question being asked really is about whether, “am I still attractive to you?”, then it would not be lying if you answered that underlying question truthfully, even though it may appear to be in contradiction to the factual aspect of the question.
 
Suppose that your wife has spent a long time cooking a meal. But when you sit down to eat it, you really don’t like it, maybe its the seasoning. Would it be that big of a sin to tell your wife that you liked her cooking and enjoyed the meal she cooked (although you really did not enjoy the meal)? Would lying be OK in that instance, in order not to offend your wife and to keep peace in the family?

Or should you be a straight shooter and tell her the truth that her cooking stinks?
 
40.png
stanley123:
Suppose that your wife has spent a long time cooking a meal. But when you sit down to eat it, you really don’t like it, maybe its the seasoning. Would it be that big of a sin to tell your wife that you liked her cooking and enjoyed the meal she cooked (although you really did not enjoy the meal)? Would lying be OK in that instance, in order not to offend your wife and to keep peace in the family?

Or should you be a straight shooter and tell her the truth that her cooking stinks?
Oh no, it wouldn’t be that big of a sin.

But still sin.

“Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect.”
 
40.png
wcknight:
I agree with OrionHunter… when your spouse asks “Does my butt look big in these pants ?” … :bigyikes:

She definitely does not want to hear that she needs to exercise a lot more !!! :nope:

I’ve been there, done that… unless you want your head handed back to you on a platter, tell the white lie and hope she believes you !!! :crying:
After xx years of marriage I am beginning to understand that when a wife asks a question like that she doesn’t want a literal answer. It’s actually code for something else (“Do you still love me?” perhaps). Decoding such questions is quite a problem. I usually take the question literally and get into trouble for doing so!
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_103v.gif
 
40.png
Prometheum_x:
Oh no, it wouldn’t be that big of a sin.

But still sin.

“Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect.”
I absolutely positively do not believe it is a sin to not hurt someones feelings.
4. Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated,
5. it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
6. it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.

*7. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. *

St Therese had a particular nun in her convent that was determined to make her life miserable. Once the nun asked her Why is it that everytime I see you you are always smiling. SHe replied “Because I always so happy to see you.” She offered up her suffering for souls and used it as way of learning humility.

There is nothing perfect about telling you wife her cooking is bad when she spent time preparing a meal for you. I do not tell my mother in law the sweater she got me for Christmas is ugly. Or my husband the perfume he got me stinks. “Thank you sweety it’s wonderful” and I wear it occasionally Because it was a loving gesture that he gave it to me and their is nothing kind and noble about hurting another persons feelings.

Can you see Jesus saying oh theres another 6 months in purgatory for not telling his wife her her cooking stinks. Sheesh.
 
I am honest, I don’t sugar coat things. I am honest with my wife and calls a spade a spade if need be. Lies beget more lies. soon you’ll dig a pit and won’t be able to get out, and the furthur you go the trust you two shared along if you lie to other people will be hurt perhaps destroyed. They aren’t worth it. Try your best not to lie. Pray.
 
That same principle carries on into marriage. The two become one and what ever one of the spouses does it shouldn’t be held back or hidden from the other. Marriage involves complete and total openess between the spouses. Hiding an adulteress incident that happened within the marriage not being open.
Before I begin I would just like to note that I am not saying that an adulter should or shouldn’t tell their spouse they had an affair.
Sorry, I don’t agree. That is totally against the teachings of the Church. It’s a lie, deceitful, and selfish. On top of that it shows a lack in trust in God that God through His graces can always make things work out if we are open to His graces.
Not saying something in itself is a morally neutral action. In the case of adultery, a husband not saying something to his wife would go into double effect:

Good effects
  • You are not putting your wife into an occasion of sin in which she is given the opportunity not to forgive you.
  • You are not allowing your wife the emotional pain that knowledge of the affair would cause.
  • If you have children, you are protecting them from a ripple down effect that the discord between you and your wife might cause
Bad effects
  • You are witholding the truth from your wife (and possibly permitting her to be deceived if she had suspicion)
  • You may have contracted and std which can be passed onto your wife
  • You may have fathered an illegitamte child
  • You may have a feeling of guilt holding this in
Now, for a husband not to bring up his affair he would be permitting the bad effects to bring about the good. For a husband to tell his wife, flip the list (making the bad effects into good and vice versa) to see what bad effects he’d have to permit to bring about the truth.

Trusting in God’s graces and a person’s acceptance of God’s graces are two different things. While God would give that person who has been cheated on the grace to forgive the adulter, it is their decision whether or not to accept that grace.
Suppose that your wife has spent a long time cooking a meal. But when you sit down to eat it, you really don’t like it, maybe its the seasoning. Would it be that big of a sin to tell your wife that you liked her cooking and enjoyed the meal she cooked (although you really did not enjoy the meal)? Would lying be OK in that instance, in order not to offend your wife and to keep peace in the family?
Lying (whether a venial or mortal sin) is never ok. The purpose of speech is to communicate the truth and foster trust between people, not merely to make them feel good. Shouldn’t the intent of the wife cooking be to make a meal they like? Shouldn’t she be open to criticism so that in the future she is able to better prepare a meal that her entire family likes? Do you think she wants to put her vanity ahead of her family’s enjoyment of a meal?
 
Once again, lying is either a sin against the commandments against bearing false witness and/or stealing. Bearing false witness can consist of fabricating information or it might be telling parts of ‘true’ information in such a way that it causes harm to someone. Stealing would be withholding information that rightly belongs to someone else.

In the case of a wife’s cooking, she has the right to know the effects of her labors. BUT… if the husband bluntly says, “It wasn’t good!,” he is breaking the commandment against bearing false witness. Assuming he managed to consume the food, it was good for nourishment and it alleviated hunger. What he meant was that it did not deliver as much pleasure as he would have liked. And presumably he is very appreciative of the gift of the food. He was using a piece of the truth, not the full truth.

Now granted, he is probably not guilty of sin because he is not trying to withhold truth, but by failing to mention the good aspects of the food and his gratitude he is causing harm (obviously minor in this case) to the wife (and possibly to the relationship). Now the husband can’t take away the full sting of the fact that he didn’t like the taste of the food but he can and should deliver the ‘truth’ in full which is that he loves his wife.
 
Penny Plain:
I disagree really strongly. I don’t think that marrying me obligated my husband to share every thought and emotion he has with me. I find that creepy, to be honest. Yes, we are married (happily, too, and for a long time), but that doesn’t entitle me to know everything that goes on in his head.

Lots of it is boring. (Cars.) Some of it is stuff I’d rather not know. (Did he think that girl in the front row last night who was making cow eyes at him was cute?) Some of it’s none of my business.

Not degrading.
A person has every right to know whether or not their spouse has been unfaithful. Someone who disagrees with this doesn’t really know what it means to married in the eyes of God. We are to be totally open, totally selfgiving, holding nothing back. The two become one and promise to be true to each other. Hiding infidelity is not being true to each other. It’s not being totally open and selfgiving. It’s being deceitful and it’s lying. Lying can be comitted by not telling someone what they have a right to know. It’s called lying by ommission. Every spouse has a right to know whether or their spouse has been faithful to them.
 
40.png
rayne89:
I absolutely positively do not believe it is a sin to not hurt someones feelings.
4. Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated,
5. it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
6. it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
*7. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. *

St Therese had a particular nun in her convent that was determined to make her life miserable. Once the nun asked her Why is it that everytime I see you you are always smiling. SHe replied “Because I always so happy to see you.” She offered up her suffering for souls and used it as way of learning humility.

There is nothing perfect about telling you wife her cooking is bad when she spent time preparing a meal for you. I do not tell my mother in law the sweater she got me for Christmas is ugly. Or my husband the perfume he got me stinks. “Thank you sweety it’s wonderful” and I wear it occasionally Because it was a loving gesture that he gave it to me and their is nothing kind and noble about hurting another persons feelings.

Can you see Jesus saying oh theres another 6 months in purgatory for not telling his wife her her cooking stinks. Sheesh.
Honesty doesn’t require you forget how to be tactful, and sometimes it is ok to simply hold your peace and say nothing. If you are asked, you have 3 legitimate options:
  1. Tell the truth (tactfully!! and hopefully accompanied by an attitude of gratitude.
  2. Still don’t say anything, or say that you have nothing to say about it.
  3. Find some way to appreciate the food such that you can truthfully say that you enjoyed it.
 
The worst consequence of developing a habit of falsehood, even in little things, is that you may develop a habit of lying to yourself, and forget how to tell the difference.

If I am ever married – even if begin dating someone – I will make it clear to them, up front, that I never, ever want to lie to them, and that covers clothing, cooking, etc. I will always strive to speak the truth in love. (The in love part is key).

If you don’t like that policy, don’t date me. I probably wouldn’t want to date you, because I’d be sure that you’d probably lie to me about my cooking, clothing. . . and where do you draw the line?

I absolutely detest lying, and am more ashamed of times I have lied than almost any other sin.
 
40.png
Prometheum_x:
But still sin.
."
So you would suffer the horrific fires of hell or of purgatory if you told your wife that her cooking was just fine, when it wasn’t?
 
It’s being deceitful and it’s lying. Lying can be comitted by not telling someone what they have a right to know. It’s called lying by ommission.
Lying consists of speaking a falsehood with the intention to deceive so I don’t think there’s something such as “lying by ommission.” Maybe you are referring to the sins of craftiness or guile:

newadvent.org/summa/305503.htm
newadvent.org/summa/305504.htm
So you would suffer the horrific fires of hell or of purgatory if you told your wife that her cooking was just fine, when it wasn’t?
A sin no matter how small it seems to us is still awful since it is a turning away from God. By sinning you are putting your will above the will of God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top