Lying to a Spouse

[Prometheum_x]

And Jesus said, “I am the way, the most-of-the-time Truth, and the Life. . .”

 

[InSearchOfGod]

If someone points a gun at your head and asks if you believe in God, you should definitely say “yes” even if it will cost your life because you are dying for your belief. Jesus told us people may persecute us for our faith in him, and we should never give false testimony about that just to protect our lives.

I think that’s very different from somebody asking if you have any information that will lead to the capture of Jews (say in Nazi Germany). You know if you tell them where you know Jews are, they will find them and kill them. I believe in this case it would be right to lie, because you don’t want the truth in the evil hands of the Nazis. I don’t think this would imply that you don’t trust God, but that you don’t trust the Nazis.

 

[InSearchOfGod]

Prometheum_x:

There is a difference between “not revealing the truth” and “speaking falsehood.”

“Speaking falsehood” is a way of “not revealing the truth” … if somebody asked you a question you knew would be evil in their hands, they are going to know you know if you don’t speak up. It would seem to me that you must lie. What a predicament!

It actually kind of reminds me of the grim predicament where you must kill one person or someone else will kill ten … the kind of “you do a sin, or I’ll do a sin to a far greater degree” Although killing and lying I think are very different.

 

[StCsDavid]

gavin52:

I am basically curious as to what people’s opinions are in regards to lying to your spouse. Is there ever a time when lying to your spouse is acceptable?

The few times I’ve done it…it’s never ended well. Highly advise against it unless you really like sleeping on the couch.

 

[Prometheum_x]

“Speaking falsehood” is a way of “not revealing the truth” … if somebody asked you a question you knew would be evil in their hands, they are going to know you know if you don’t speak up. It would seem to me that you must lie. What a predicament!

It actually kind of reminds me of the grim predicament where you must kill one person or someone else will kill ten … the kind of “you do a sin, or I’ll do a sin to a far greater degree” Although killing and lying I think are very different.

Speaking falsehood is indeed a way of not revealing the truth, but it is not the only way, nor would I deem it an acceptable way.

I don’t think we have the moral authority to lie.

In your grim predicament that you present, I am assuming that the one person you have to kill is innocent. In that case, you have no moral authority to kill the one innocent person to prevent the death of ten others, even if you are sure that they will die if you don’t, and will not die if you do.

However, a) the ends simply do not ever justify the means. One’s culpability may be significantly affected by that adverse circumstance, but the action in of itself is reprehensible: the killing of an innocent person.

b), there will never be any real assurance in that situation that the desired end will in fact be effected.

 

[beckyann2597]

Orionthehunter:

Here are some acceptable times.

1. Are you planning a surprise birthday party for me?
2. Do these pants make my butt look fat?
3. Do you think I am just like my mother?

YES! Exactly !

 

[CuriousInIL]

Mt19:26:

A spouse does have the right to know about adultery and therefore must be told otherwise another sin would be committed. Until the spouse knows about the unfaithfulness you are continuing to be unfaithful to them by deceiving them.

I would be greatly interested in any support for this statement.

 

[Madia]

Maybe the Catechism of the Council of Trent would help:

This Commandment Forbids Lies Of All Kinds

In a word, lies of every sort are prohibited, especially those that cause grave injury to anyone, while most impious of all is a lie uttered against or regarding religion.

Excuses for Lying Refuted

The Plea Of Prudence

There are those who seek to justify their duplicity either by the unimportance of what they say, or by the example of the worldly wise who, they claim, lie at the proper time. The pastor should correct such erroneous ideas by answering what is most true, namely, that the wisdom of the flesh is death. He should exhort his listeners in all their difficulties and dangers to trust in God, not in the artifice of lying; for those who have recourse to subterfuge, plainly show that they trust more to their own prudence than to the providence of God.

The Pleas Of Convenience, Amusement, And Advantage

With regard to those who defend their conduct by saying that to speak the truth is often attended with inconvenience, priests should answer that (such an excuse) is an accusation, not a defence, since it is the duty of a Christian to suffer any inconvenience rather than utter a falsehood.

There remain two other classes of persons who seek to justify lying: those who say that they tell lies for the sake of amusement, and those who plead motives of interest, claiming that without recourse to lies, they can neither buy nor sell to advantage. The pastor should endeavour to reform both these kinds of liars. He should correct the former by showing how strong a habit of sinning is contracted by their practice, and by strongly impressing upon them the truth that for every idle word they shall render an account. As for the second class, he should upbraid them with greater severity, because their very excuse is a most serious accusation against themselves, since they show thereby that they yield no faith or confidence to these words of God: Seek first the kingdom of God and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[MamaGeek]

It seems like most of the examples you all have discussed have been one extreme or the other - a white lie, or covering up some major transgression. What about the in-betweens?

Let me make up an example. Let’s say your husband has a hang-up about something, like using his electronics a certain way. He gets mad at you if you hit the rewind button before you could hear the Stop sequence completely finish in the VCR, because he thinks it wears out the mechanisms. Well, let’s say you were using his VCR one day when he wasn’t home and you forgot about hitting the buttons the way he likes. When he gets home,he’s in a really bad mood, cranky and irritable, and making everyone in the family miserable. He sees a video sitting on top of the VCR, and asks if you were careful with his VCR. You know that if you admit to hitting the buttons “too fast,” even if you say that you just forgot and will be more careful next time, that in his current mood, he’ll blow up and make it into a major incident., Is it ok to say, “yes, I was careful,” just to keep the peace in the family?

 

[Madia]

You know that if you admit to hitting the buttons “too fast,” even if you say that you just forgot and will be more careful next time, that in his current mood, he’ll blow up and make it into a major incident., Is it ok to say, “yes, I was careful,” just to keep the peace in the family?

The husband in your situation seems to me like he is placing too much value on material goods. Lying to him would just serve to affirm him in his belief that the vcr is of substantive importance. The wife would be better off admitting her disobedience and showing him that his value in the vcr is misplaced by abstaining from it for a while.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I agree with several others here that, while white lies are not awful things, they ought to be avoided, if possible. If we are creative enough, we will be able to give an evasive answer about the surprise party without drawing too much suspicion. (This example may, by the way, be an example of a deceptive question – she is either asking you to lie, or to give up something you feel is special).

But what I’m interested in is this: What about lying that does not take the form of lies? It is the most natural thing in the world for patterns to develop, in a marriage, of spouses not asking each other certain questions, or not volunteering the answers to unasked (important) questions. In this, we are doing a disservice to our spouses, a disservice that may encourage us to have what amounts to an artificial marital relationship.

Is there anything in Catholic/Christian writing that specifically addresses this type of lying-without-lies? Certainly, when we confess our sins, we ought to confess these failures to challenge one another in marriage under the heading “what we have failed to do.”

My marriage has been less than a year, but my wife and I have already struggled with and confronted this type of deception. I don’t mean to get off-topic, but I wonder who’s experienced the same thing.

: Prodigal :