Machine gun fire into Las Vegas crowd at Route 91 music Festival

[Inisfallen]

If you don’t want to be able to protect yourself, that’s your business.

You know, those of us who don’t own guns are perfectly able to protect ourselves. I’ve lived nearly 60 years, lived in New York City in the bad old days of the 70s and 80s (and not in the best neighborhoods, either), traveled all over the world, including in the third world, in countries that were war-torn and dangerous, in Africa and in South America, and I’ve been able to protect myself just fine without a gun. I’m still here, unscathed. And unafraid.

What kind of mindset do you and others have, what is your worldview, that you think you need to have lethal weapons at hand at all times to defend yourselves? Where the heck do you live? What are you afraid of? If you live somewhere where it’s so bad you need a gun, I’d really suggest moving.

Putting aside for the moment the question of sensible gun regulation (something some will never admit could exist), this is interesting. There’s something peculiar, psychologically, going on here.

 

[Jig_Saw]

My gun ownership in no way threatens your property, and wouldn’t even if I had no insurance at all. But I’ll admit that anybody who doesn’t carry liability insurance is a stone fool, but not because of gun ownership. In a society as litigious as ours, a person ought to keep a substantial amount of liability insurance and also do everything he can to make himself judgment proof.

In my particular case, my risks are auto liability and farm liability. I’m a million times more likely to get sued if a cow of mine gets out on the road than I am from owning a gun.

I’m sure you think that you think that your gun ownership does not affect my right to property. I find most gun owners don’t think they have anything but a positive impact on society. But the reality is quite different. How many guns are stolen because gun owners do not properly secure their weapon that ends up being used in the commission of a crime? How many gun owners decide to use their weapon and accidentally shoot the wrong person? How many gun owners lose it and shoot up a concert? How many gun owners accidentally shoot themselves or others? Etc.

If every gun owner were as responsible as you think you are, we wouldn’t have a problem. But they aren’t and the cost to society and my property is non trivial.

 

[Ridgerunner]

What kind of mindset do you and others have, what is your worldview, that you think you need to have lethal weapons at hand at all times to defend yourselves? Where the heck do you live? What are you afraid of? If you live somewhere where it’s so bad you need a gun, I’d really suggest moving.

I don’t actually keep guns for protection against people, though it’s a comfort to know I could if I needed to. I live in the Ozarks, where there’s all kinds of wildlife, including some that can kill a human being like feral hogs, mountain lions, coyotes, feral dogs, and bears. I mainly use guns to kill “varmints” like armadillos that dig holes in pastures that can cause a cow to break a leg or be life-threatening to a man driving a tractor in deep grass. Groundhogs aren’t as bad as armadillos in that way, but they’re bad. Now and then I nail a snapping turtle that could seriously harm a child who’s swimming or wading. I have probably shot hundreds of copperheads and water moccasins in my life.

And for most of those things, an AR-15 is the very best and I’m glad they’re available. It’s light, easy to carry and easy to shoot. A .410 shotgun is better for snakes, but if you can shoot straight and quickly, an AR-15 works just fine too.

And no, I don’t care to move. One can’t raise cattle in a city or while wandering about in the third world. And there’s nothing psychologically peculiar about it. People have to eat, and I supply some of it to them; the very best.

But there are a lot of people who live in dangerous neighborhoods and can’t afford to get out of them. You shouldn’t be so dismissive of their ability to defend themselves just because you don’t live where they do.

 

[Jig_Saw]

You know, those of us who don’t own guns are perfectly able to protect ourselves. I’ve lived nearly 60 years, lived in New York City in the bad old days of the 70s and 80s (and not in the best neighborhoods, either), traveled all over the world, including in the third world, in countries that were war-torn and dangerous, in Africa and in South America, and I’ve been able to protect myself just fine without a gun. I’m still here, unscathed. And unafraid.

What kind of mindset do you and others have, what is your worldview, that you think you need to have lethal weapons at hand at all times to defend yourselves? Where the heck do you live? What are you afraid of? If you live somewhere where it’s so bad you need a gun, I’d really suggest moving.

Putting aside for the moment the question of sensible gun regulation (something some will never admit could exist), this is interesting. There’s something peculiar, psychologically, going on here.

It’s because they’ve been trained to be scared of everything. Watch Fox News. They’re scared of Muslims. They’re scared of black lives matter. They’re scared of immigrants. They’re scared of cities. They’re scared of their own government if it run by Democrats (they are very scared of Democrats). They’re scared of liberals.

You need a gun to protect yourself from the world as presented by right wing news.

 

[exnihilo]

Police carry guns. What are they afraid of?

Just because you never needed a gun doesn’t mean you won’t. I’ve never had my house burn down but I still have it insured.

 

[Inisfallen]

But there are a lot of people who live in dangerous neighborhoods and can’t afford to get out of them. You shouldn’t be so dismissive of their ability to defend themselves just because you don’t live where they do.

I spent many years living where “they” do. I was one of them.

 

[Inisfallen]

Police carry guns. What are they afraid of?

Just because you never needed a gun doesn’t mean you won’t. I’ve never had my house burn down but I still have it insured.

Police do carry guns. They’re afraid of all the [insert forbidden word here] carrying guns.

Funny. The New York City cops I grew up with (about a dozen uncles and cousins) all carried guns on duty. Most of them couldn’t be bothered to carry a gun off duty, even though city cops are permitted and encouraged to do so. Most of them didn’t bother to carry a gun once they’d retired, even though city cops are permitted and encouraged to do so. They had a pretty good grasp of the actual need to carry a gun as a private citizen, meaning they knew it was non-existent.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

True. Gun ownership in Mexico is far lower than it is in the U.S., and gun laws there are very tough. Yet, the murder rate per capita in Mexico is three times what it is in the U.S. Undoubtedly there are reasons for that, and probably people have studied it. But gun ownership does not correlate with the murder rates in those countries.

Cherry picking a country to support a statistical claim.

Maybe so, but clearly gun ownership is not the cause in this particular case.

That is fine. The claim was not that gun ownership is the only cause of high murder rates. There are many other factors.

 

[exnihilo]

Well if police are afraid of those folks then shouldn’t everyone else be?

 

[Inisfallen]

Well if police are afraid of those folks then shouldn’t everyone else be?

No. Is everyone else looking for these bad guys? Is everyone else trying to arrest them? Is everyone else pulling over suspicious cars on the highway at night? Responding to 911 calls? Breaking up fights? Serving warrants? Everyone else can stay away from them. I didn’t worry about the armed drug dealers when I lived on Avenue B in 1982 because I wasn’t buying heroin from them. No interaction with them, no problem.

You and I simply do not face the same risks faced by police officers. To think otherwise is pure fantasy.

 

[exnihilo]

Actually it isn’t fantasy. Police certainly do come into contact with criminals but so does everyone else. We are typically the victims of these criminals. Policing is actually a less deadly job than being a garbage man and most die in car accidents.

 

[Inisfallen]

Actually it isn’t fantasy. Police certainly do come into contact with criminals but so does everyone else. We are typically the victims of these criminals. Policing is actually a less deadly job than being a garbage man and most die in car accidents.

Irrelevant.

Unless you live in a very, very different world than the rest of us do, you, like me, don’t have any need to carry a gun on a regular basis. Very few people do.

 

[Inisfallen]

Very true, sadly.

Have you seen this horrifying bit of insanity?

That’s the NRA. That’s the mentality they promote. And it seems to be working, unfortunately. Just reading through this thread demonstrates that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But, hey, a few mass murders? A few thousand suicides? Dozens of children shot to death? A small price to pay for our freedoms, right?

 

[Jig_Saw]

Have you seen this horrifying bit of insanity?

That’s the NRA. That’s the mentality they promote. And it seems to be working, unfortunately. Just reading through this thread demonstrates that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

No, I hadn’t seen it and I wish I could unsee it. Pretty much insane, but that’s the current conservative movement.

 

[Inisfallen]

No, I hadn’t seen it and I wish I could unsee it. Pretty much insane, but that’s the current conservative movement.

It really is insane. That’s not a joke, it’s not hyperbole, it is truly insane. And that’s the face of the NRA.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

There’s gotta be a movie in that!

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

You know, those of us who don’t own guns are perfectly able to protect ourselves. I’ve lived nearly 60 years, lived in New York City in the bad old days of the 70s and 80s (and not in the best neighborhoods, either), traveled all over the world, including in the third world, in countries that were war-torn and dangerous, in Africa and in South America, and I’ve been able to protect myself just fine without a gun. I’m still here, unscathed. And unafraid.

What kind of mindset do you and others have, what is your worldview, that you think you need to have lethal weapons at hand at all times to defend yourselves? Where the heck do you live? What are you afraid of? If you live somewhere where it’s so bad you need a gun, I’d really suggest moving.

Putting aside for the moment the question of sensible gun regulation (something some will never admit could exist), this is interesting. There’s something peculiar, psychologically, going on here.

I don’t believe the vast majority of gun owners particularly care about others owning guns or not, nor do they overly worry themselves about having to defend themselves with their firearms. What gun owners take umbrage to is when non-gun owners say stuff like, “I don’t need a gun and I don’t see why you should either, and if you don’t support my gun control idea something is wrong with you”.

I personally own several firearms, and I don’t own any of them for fear of having to use them in self defense. I’ve got a pistol I take with me sometimes when I go fishing down by the river or out to the “farm” in the off-chance that I have to shoot a snake or a rabid animal. There is also the unfortunate danger of trespassing poachers- dangerous morons who pretend they are “lost” when caught and dumb enough to get violent if they think they have a chance to get away- a pistol is good insurance, though I would never pull out a weapon if I didn’t have the intention of using it, and that is not the primary reason I have it.

I also own a handful of shotguns and rifles I various calibers for hunting and sport shooting. At no point have I ever thought, “man, I need to buy this rifle in case I ever come under siege in my own home”.

Long story short I don’t own firearms because I am prepping for he Civil War Part 2 or because I expect a High Noon situation every day. And while there are preppers out there, they are not the majority of gun owners.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

I would also like to own an AR because of the light recoil and potential for large magazine capacity for “pest” shooting, namely wild hogs and coyotes. Both of these are destructive to the land and wildlife in large numbers and drive out other game. Both generally don’t stop moving, and they move at a good little pace through the brush and hogs travel in big groups, so a high powered, scoped rifle with at most a 5rd box magazine is impractical. So is a shotgun, since I am usually carrying turkey or bird shot and only a handful of buckshot or slugs in my pocket just in case I need it, and the shotgun has a plug in the magazine tube that limits its capacity to three rounds. An AR chambered in .223 is much better suited to this, especially in the “off” season when one can focus on pest control (hogs and coyotes are usually open season aka legal to shoot year round).

I will also say, I don’t necessarily have an issue with banning the “bump stock”. The problem is that it is still technically a single trigger pull mechanism, so lawmakers will have to be careful rewriting legislation in order to ban the bump stock without banning semi-automatic weapons.

 

[MonteRCMS]

The AR-15 and its variants IS AN OUTSTANDING WEAPON.

The AR-15 is the perfect woman’s weapon. Very easy to aim. Light. Minimal recoil. Low noise level. Short stock which makes it perfect for home defense and maneuvering around in narrow hallways. Ammunition is inexpensive.

If readers visit You Tube and look up videos of people shooting different kinds of guns, things like 12 gauge shotguns are excellent but the recoil will knock a light person off balance.

More and more women are becoming interested in shooting and home defense.

There is a magazine “Women & Guns” which is oriented toward women … including the legal issues and how to get lessons and practice.

Home

Trusted News Since 1989

www.womenandguns.com

Everyone needs to learn self-defense.

There are a number of related books, including “Thank God I Had A Gun” by Chris Bird.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I spent many years living where “they” do. I was one of them.

So did I, and the almost nightly gunshots one heard were disquieting. My then roommate was also disquieted when he was surrounded in Forest Park in St. Louis by gang factions who were then confronting each other. Fortunately, at about that time a black motorcycle gang whose leader I had done a favor showed up, recognized him, and took him out of there. True story. It’s foolish to assume one’s safety, and it’s vain to tell others they’re safe to make a political point when they aren’t necessarily so.