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RolandThompsonGunner
Guest
I wouldn’t be thrilled with it. If they happened to bump into each, exchanging brief pleasantries/being polite is fine, but having lunch together would rub me the wrong way.
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LittleRose46
Guest
I have friends of all ages, both sexes. I have a really good friend in his 20s (he’s very mature for his age). I’m 46. There have never been any romantic feelings between us. Also, one of my very best friends is a male in his 40s. I’ve always found it easier to talk to guys about certain things. Any guys I might date understand that I have close male friends. So yes, men and women can be just friends.
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DivineMercy01
Guest
all due respect, you are a woman. As signit mentioned above^ it’s possible for women to be friends with men, not the other way around. We are relational creatures.
I don’t know you or your friend in his 20s but (assuming he is heterosexual) he has probably at least thought about being more than friends with you.
I don’t know you or your friend in his 20s but (assuming he is heterosexual) he has probably at least thought about being more than friends with you.
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DivineMercy01
Guest
If there’s attraction are you “Just friends”? And is it prudent to stay friends with someone you’re attracted to if one or both of you is married, dating, or engaged?
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DivineMercy01
Guest
Perpetually celibate people are a different category, as they will never be intimate with another human. This is why St. Francis and St. Clare were able to be close friends.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Neither I nor my husband had a jealousy issue.
Best to say that every person has their own way of relating to each other. Christ and the Catechism both speak of friendship between both the same and opposite sexes. For some folks, this won’t work out.
For other people, guess they only contact people to borrow money.
Best to say that every person has their own way of relating to each other. Christ and the Catechism both speak of friendship between both the same and opposite sexes. For some folks, this won’t work out.
For other people, guess they only contact people to borrow money.
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Pattylt
Guest
We both admitted to sexual attractions and both decided no. We didn’t want to change the friendship into something else. We talked about it and we rejected it. Neither of us wanted it to become romantic and neither of us wanted a sexual only type…we knew that wasn’t a way to maintain a friendship.
And I don’t think only men have those thoughts run through their heads. Women do too!
And I don’t think only men have those thoughts run through their heads. Women do too!
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DivineMercy01
Guest
You’re not wrong. Women do have those thoughts, too! Especially after hanging out with someone for a long time.
Men are just more physical creatures so they are almost never going to go out of their way to hang out with a woman unless there’s some physical attraction. Women always want to have more friends, so it is more likely for a woman to go out of her way to befriend a male just to be friends.
Men are just more physical creatures so they are almost never going to go out of their way to hang out with a woman unless there’s some physical attraction. Women always want to have more friends, so it is more likely for a woman to go out of her way to befriend a male just to be friends.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Ahhh, this is insight.
Friendship, true friendship as opposed to a casual social acquaintance, is intimacy. Celibate people have intimate relationships, with family, friends, co-religious. And they will also have people who are simply “say hello” sort of acquaintances, or simply Christmas Card exchanges.
When one opens up themself to intimacy, and that person shares your beliefs, there is no reason that should romance not work out that one cannot maintain the intimate friendship.
IIRC, you are in your 20’s. Maybe open yourself up to friendships, be vulnerable to your friends. Accept new friends without the iorn gates.
Remember, intimacy is far more than sex. Matthew Kelly’s book “7 Levels of Intimacy” helps married couples understand this truth.
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Daisy
Guest
Yes, but if you read the history closely, they were very careful as to when and how they met, in order to preserve chastity and honor.
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Vico
Guest
It is just friends when it is exclusive of sexual relations.
It depends upon all persons involved, temptation, setting a good example.
Oxford
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C.laypersona
Guest
I was hoping to see some relevant citations from the writings of the saints in this debate.
Folks, everyone; attention! Here is ‘the solution’, so to say; the completest answer.
From the writings of St John of the Cross:
“Some of these persons make friendships of a spiritual [or, if you prefer, platonic] kind with others, which oftentimes arise from luxury [lust] and not from spirituality; this may be known to be the case when the remembrance of that friendship causes not the remembrance and love of God to grow, but occasions remorse of conscience. For, when the friendship is purely spiritual, the love of God grows with it; and the more the soul remembers it, the more it remembers the love of God, and the greater the desire it has for God; so that, as the one grows, the other grows also. For the spirit of God has this property, that it increases good by adding to it more good, inasmuch as there is likeness and conformity between them. But, when this love arises from the vice of sensuality aforementioned, it produces the contrary effects; for the more the one grows, the more the other decreases, and the remembrance of it likewise. If that sensual love grows, it will at once be observed that the soul’s love of God is becoming colder, and that it is forgetting Him as it remembers that love; there comes to it, too, a certain remorse of conscience. And, on the other hand, if the love of God grows in the soul, that other love becomes cold and is forgotten; for, as the two are contrary to one another, not only does the one not aid the other, but the one which predominates quenches and confounds the other, and becomes strengthened in itself, as the philosophers say. Wherefore Our Saviour said in the Gospel: ‘That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.’ (John 3: 6). That is to say, the love which is born of sensuality ends in sensuality, and that which is of the spirit ends in the spirit of God and causes it to grow. This is the difference that exists between these two kinds of love, whereby we may know them.” (Dark Night of the Soul I, IV, 7)
Folks, everyone; attention! Here is ‘the solution’, so to say; the completest answer.
From the writings of St John of the Cross:
“Some of these persons make friendships of a spiritual [or, if you prefer, platonic] kind with others, which oftentimes arise from luxury [lust] and not from spirituality; this may be known to be the case when the remembrance of that friendship causes not the remembrance and love of God to grow, but occasions remorse of conscience. For, when the friendship is purely spiritual, the love of God grows with it; and the more the soul remembers it, the more it remembers the love of God, and the greater the desire it has for God; so that, as the one grows, the other grows also. For the spirit of God has this property, that it increases good by adding to it more good, inasmuch as there is likeness and conformity between them. But, when this love arises from the vice of sensuality aforementioned, it produces the contrary effects; for the more the one grows, the more the other decreases, and the remembrance of it likewise. If that sensual love grows, it will at once be observed that the soul’s love of God is becoming colder, and that it is forgetting Him as it remembers that love; there comes to it, too, a certain remorse of conscience. And, on the other hand, if the love of God grows in the soul, that other love becomes cold and is forgotten; for, as the two are contrary to one another, not only does the one not aid the other, but the one which predominates quenches and confounds the other, and becomes strengthened in itself, as the philosophers say. Wherefore Our Saviour said in the Gospel: ‘That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.’ (John 3: 6). That is to say, the love which is born of sensuality ends in sensuality, and that which is of the spirit ends in the spirit of God and causes it to grow. This is the difference that exists between these two kinds of love, whereby we may know them.” (Dark Night of the Soul I, IV, 7)
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C.laypersona
Guest
Ah, I wish that were so simple, but unfortunately it’s not. That distinction is arbitrary. You never had any lustful or romantic thoughts and feelings about opposite-sex colleagues who were friends with you or who weren’t even friends with you, with whom you didn’t even use to talk much? You never daydreamed about being together (a couple) with any a colleague? Not even during your adolescence and early twenties?
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do_justly_love_mercy
Guest
I don’t intend ever to be “dependent” upon my husband. I intend for it to be an equal partnership. I already have a job offer in hand for me to take up as soon as I arrive in the UK. Childcare and housework will be shared equally as far as possible.
That sounds like a terrible idea. I used the image of a rein as an idiomatic figure of speech. I don’t intend to treat my husband like an actual horse. He doesn’t need me to manage his life for him.
That has not been my experience. I don’t choose my friends based on their sex. If someone is “necessary” to me now, they will continue to be “necessary” when I am married. What is a “beta-orbiter” anyway? It sounds like a kind of spacecraft. If you trust somebody, there’s no need for jealousy. I am no more jealous of my fiancé spending time with his female friends than I am of his spending time with his sister.
To be honest, women have for centuries (millennia, in fact) put up with their husbands spending their leisure time drinking with their male friends. If I end up with a husband whose greatest indulgence is spending a few hours per fortnight visiting a museum and having a cup of tea with another woman, I’ll consider myself lucky.
Perhaps that has been your experience. I’m happy to have 5-10 friends of either sex.
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Bluebright
Guest
It depends on the people. There looks make no difference so I would say that if you are putting that high on your criteria then no.
Its about their state in life and their gift of chastity and how they practice it. There age doesn’t matter but a certain level if maturity usually means that older people have more success with this but strictly speaking its about spiritual maturity usually than bodily maturity. Obviously it is possible as St Francis and St Clare were close friends so as to be like brother and sister and plenty of other saints and ones in the making. Work first on your chastity and ask God for the gift of chastity and then see if friendships form. Ask St Joseph to protect the friendship if you already have one and be sure to always remain chivalrous and don’t behave in a disrespectful manner towards the friendship ie get drunk or treat it with anything other than courtesy and decorum. Always thank God for what he gives you and ask for help with protecting all that is yours ie good friendships.
Its about their state in life and their gift of chastity and how they practice it. There age doesn’t matter but a certain level if maturity usually means that older people have more success with this but strictly speaking its about spiritual maturity usually than bodily maturity. Obviously it is possible as St Francis and St Clare were close friends so as to be like brother and sister and plenty of other saints and ones in the making. Work first on your chastity and ask God for the gift of chastity and then see if friendships form. Ask St Joseph to protect the friendship if you already have one and be sure to always remain chivalrous and don’t behave in a disrespectful manner towards the friendship ie get drunk or treat it with anything other than courtesy and decorum. Always thank God for what he gives you and ask for help with protecting all that is yours ie good friendships.
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twf
Guest
What, then, is your proposal for avoiding the opposite sex in the work place?
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Lara
Guest
I wasn’t actually thinking about just money when I wrote about being dependent. You will be emotionally dependent on him too. Your emotions may be quite stable now. But add a difficult pregnancy or a health problem, children and their many needs, or a special needs child, and I can assure you that you will want your husband to come home after work, not spend time doing things that don’t directly help the family or his health. You will long for an evening out with him and be surprised how you may feel jealous when he goes out with others.
Not all tasks can be shared equally. Marriage is about 100% commitment from each person rather than a 50/50 division of tasks.
I would like for you to try something for just two months. Keep your male friends off in the distance, perhaps agreeing to meet them when Covid-19 is all over. Then see if your relationship with your fiancé changes when you are more dependent on him for male attention.
A beta-orbiter is a man whom you are not dating but consider to be a friend; you might call him when your fiancé is out with his father; you might phone him when you need your car looked at or when you are bored. You have zero interest in him, but he likely has some interest in you. He knows you have a fiancé, but he’s ready to step in if that falls through. He might even make a few sexual jokes with you from time to time to test the waters. He may have had a chance to date you in the past but wasn’t bold enough to take that chance. He is like a bird on the telephone line. He creates a slight disruption, some static, disturbance or impedance in your primary relationship. You and your fiancé won’t even know how to describe that disturbance until beta-man is out of your life.
Not all tasks can be shared equally. Marriage is about 100% commitment from each person rather than a 50/50 division of tasks.
I would like for you to try something for just two months. Keep your male friends off in the distance, perhaps agreeing to meet them when Covid-19 is all over. Then see if your relationship with your fiancé changes when you are more dependent on him for male attention.
A beta-orbiter is a man whom you are not dating but consider to be a friend; you might call him when your fiancé is out with his father; you might phone him when you need your car looked at or when you are bored. You have zero interest in him, but he likely has some interest in you. He knows you have a fiancé, but he’s ready to step in if that falls through. He might even make a few sexual jokes with you from time to time to test the waters. He may have had a chance to date you in the past but wasn’t bold enough to take that chance. He is like a bird on the telephone line. He creates a slight disruption, some static, disturbance or impedance in your primary relationship. You and your fiancé won’t even know how to describe that disturbance until beta-man is out of your life.
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DivineMercy01
Guest
not to mention couples in “egalitarian” marriages have been shown to have less sex
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CTBcin
Guest
Ummm… I’m a guy, and I have had plenty of female friends who were just that: friends.
To simply see things as men=physical and women=relational, is a huge oversimplification. While based in a kernel of truth, we don’t always fit into such neat categories.
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CTBcin
Guest
Yep, and every guy that’s friends with a woman has this same exact sinister agenda.
Wow, what a cynical view of men.