Many Catholics leaving the faith by age 10

[may_they_be_one]

I was discussing this recently with an older gentleman. He and his wife were very involved with parish ministry. Mass every Sunday, Catholic school. Two sons, both left the church.

I believed having a dad who was religious helped keep the children in the faith. I guess not.

I believe this is a result of the gross misapplication of the quote falsely attributed to St. Francis to evangelization: “Preach the gospel always, use words if necessary.” (Thomas of Celano’s biography of his life shows that he was a very firey vocal preacher, and scholarship verifies this quote was never spoken/written by him americancatholic.org/Messenger/Oct2001/Wiseman.asp.)

We cannot evangelize without words. And by definition, one can only preach with words. St. Paul vehemently exhorts the Church to preach the Word always, knowing people cannot hear the gospel without someone to preach it. “I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires…” (2 Tim. 4)

Yes, we must demonstrate with our actions, AND we must allow the Holy Spirit to demonstrate through us with power (miracles, signs, healing, prophecy, words of knowledge, etc).

“Preaching” a silent gospel of good works is not how Jesus or the Apostles taught us to evangelize. We must make the words of the gospel, including the words of the epistles, an integral part of our witness to our children.

We must demonstrate the love we have for God expressed through our heart-felt VOCAL spontaneous worship, VOCAL spontaneous prayers, and VOCAL prayers of intercession for people on the street who are suffering, lost, lonely who invariably will feel the presence of God and respond in tears and in joy. Then our children will EXPERIENCE the truth of a faith truly lived and taught!

 

[Padres1969]

I come at this issue differently as one of those 52% of Catholics Pew found who do leave the RCC at some point in their lives (and as this new report seems to indicate a large percentage of that 52% who do leave (Approximately 33%), leave before they’re 25). I fit in both categories.

I’d say from my experience the reasons one would leave the RCC are many facetted. You’re not going to find one silver bullet that’s causing Catholics to leave the RCC, or the Christian faith entirely as seems to be a common result. Is it on the educators not emphasizing catechism enough, absolutely. Is it on the parents not practicing the faith in many cases (a do as I say not as I do situation), absolutely. Is it the educators not highlighting Catholicism’s pro-science positions in many cases, again yes (though I wouldn’t bring up Galileo as a strong point in the RCC’s favor as was mentioned above ). Is it that even with well formed and informed kids the RCC still can’t give them hard scientific proof in an increasingly secular society since faith isn’t quantifiable, absolutely. It’s all of these things and so much more that are causing young people to leave.

 

[pianistclare]

Yeah, but they can’t leave if they don’t show up in the first place.

 

[Padres1969]

Yeah, but they can’t leave if they don’t show up in the first place.

Actually you can. If you’re baptized Catholic, and then you never show up afterward, you’ve still left. Though admittedly it’s unclear if this study covers folks like that or those that were actually active in the faith as kids until the point they left.

 

[pianistclare]

Actually you can. If you’re baptized Catholic, and then you never show up afterward, you’ve still left. Though admittedly it’s unclear if this study covers folks like that or those that were actually active in the faith as kids until the point they left.

HA! Waiting for the standard CAF answer: if you’re Baptized Catholic, you’re Catholic. No matter where you go or what you say you are. You’re still Catholic.

But you’re right. The article isn’t real specific.
The point is, if there’s no one convicted teaching you, with a great education in the faith themselves, then it’s hard to convince anyone of anything. (not dissing the Holy Spirit, just sayin)

 

[Blessedwithfive]

Clare, you are right. Parents and religious education teachers need to do more. We reap what we sow.

I have been teaching now for almost 20 years. It still takes me hours to plan each lesson. I now teach fifth and eighth grades. I totally agree that the teachers need to step it up, but we need instruction from the top. The Archdiocese needs to come in and train/educate the Catechists. We have a whole generation of poorly catechized Catechists teaching direct falsehoods.

In our Archdiocese, if you breath and take the Virtus training, you teach. No other requirements at all. I have heard lots of people complain that they can’t get volunteers, but I think we shouldn’t really be looking for VOLUNTEERS rather we should invite people to teach. People who know and live the faith. Just like we do with the EMHC.

Yes, I am frustrated too.

 

[ProVobis]

I think if the kids get enough Scripture, Catechism, and Sacraments, they might go astray as teens or young adults, but they have a sort of road map and a decent chance of coming back when they are old enough to ponder the meaning of life. Pray and hope!

It could very well be that kids get an overload of banal information, but I suspect a lot of peer pressure is involved in whether the kids stick to their faith or not.

 

[Padres1969]

HA! Waiting for the standard CAF answer: if you’re Baptized Catholic, you’re Catholic. No matter where you go or what you say you are. You’re still Catholic.

But you’re right. The article isn’t real specific.
The point is, if there’s no one convicted teaching you, with a great education in the faith themselves, then it’s hard to convince anyone of anything. (not dissing the Holy Spirit, just sayin)

Oh I agree. My own family was an example of that to be sure as one of the many reason I abandoned the RCC, and Christianity, for a long time. Catholicism for my parents is a check box on a list of “the things you do” more than it’s a faith to live by. A fact I was reminded of during my daughter’s baptism a couple of weeks ago when my old man discussed why he was happy we were baptizing her (even if not in the RCC). :doh2:

 

[JimG]

I have to agree that the lack of serious content in catechesis is a good part of the problem.

A teacher of physics would not rely on discussing our feelings about matter and energy. He would have a textbook and a teaching method which emphasized the principles underlying the subject. It is no different with religion. I’m not recommending a return to the Baltimore Catechism—although that could be a temporary remedy—but a systematic presentation of the truths of the Faith and how they are related.

Another problem is that many children today are being raised as practical materialists. One can go from kindergarten through graduate school with no adequate training in philosophy. But philosophy necessarily precedes science.

If a child is raised to adulthood as a materialist, there is no way for him to understand his own intellect and will, the human soul, the human person, the attributes of God, or the Trinity

 

[Vim71]

It’s harder to figure out how it happens to kids who were raised in the faith.

Even more confusing: When one kid stays, but the others stray.

Within my own family, of the 6 children (Myself, my brother, and our 4 cousins), I’m the only one who is still Catholic.

 

[Padres1969]

Even more confusing: When one kid stays, but the others stray.

Within my own family, of the 6 children (Myself, my brother, and our 4 cousins), I’m the only one who is still Catholic.

I can relate to that. Within 2 generations my family went from my parents generation raised entirely Catholic (or one Armenian Apostolic to not one Catholic (or Armenian Orthodox) left in my family. All that’s left even Christian are myself as Anglican and one Lutheran. Everyone else in my generation is, Nothing in Particular, Agnostic, or Atheist.

 

[Phemie]

I have been teaching now for almost 20 years. It still takes me hours to plan each lesson. I now teach fifth and eighth grades. I totally agree that the teachers need to step it up, but we need instruction from the top. The Archdiocese needs to come in and train/educate the Catechists. We have a whole generation of poorly catechized Catechists teaching direct falsehoods.

In our Archdiocese, if you breath and take the Virtus training, you teach. No other requirements at all. I have heard lots of people complain that they can’t get volunteers, but I think we shouldn’t really be looking for VOLUNTEERS rather we should invite people to teach. People who know and live the faith. Just like we do with the EMHC.

Yes, I am frustrated too.

The same with my diocese, with the exception that we get no Virus training, just have to pass a Court & Police Vulnerable Sector check. Then we’re handed a teacher’s manual and a child’s manual and let loose. I’ve seen a teacher not able to tell a kid what constitutes a sin.

 

[Phemie]

Even more confusing: When one kid stays, but the others stray.

Within my own family, of the 6 children (Myself, my brother, and our 4 cousins), I’m the only one who is still Catholic.

My father went to his grave bemoaning the fact that my brothers had fallen away from the Faith. My cousins (my godparents and their brother) no longer practice either. My kids don’t. In fact, they all seem to think I’m nuts for going to church on a regular basis. My bothers couldn’t believe that I was raising my kids in the Faith. They pretty much viewed it as abuse.

 

[Rosebud77]

I believe this is a result of the gross misapplication of the quote falsely attributed to St. Francis to evangelization: **“Preach the gospel always, **use words if necessary.” (Thomas of Celano’s biography of his life shows that he was a very firey vocal preacher, and scholarship verifies this quote was never spoken/written by him americancatholic.org/Messenger/Oct2001/Wiseman.asp.)

The real problem with those words is that the last few get omitted, Matters not who said it; it was said. Does not say do not use words. Just live the gospel then speak of it. ie if you re bearing witness then that will open doors to verbal witness, a balance.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Even more confusing: When one kid stays, but the others stray.

Within my own family, of the 6 children (Myself, my brother, and our 4 cousins), I’m the only one who is still Catholic.

The same with my husbands siblings. He gets teased if we say we will be coming after Mass. And that’s for holidays!

 

[pianistclare]

I have been teaching now for almost 20 years. It still takes me hours to plan each lesson. I now teach fifth and eighth grades. I totally agree that the teachers need to step it up, but we need instruction from the top. The Archdiocese needs to come in and train/educate the Catechists. We have a whole generation of poorly catechized Catechists teaching direct falsehoods.

In our Archdiocese, if you breath and take the Virtus training, you teach. No other requirements at all. I have heard lots of people complain that they can’t get volunteers, but I think we shouldn’t really be looking for VOLUNTEERS rather we should invite people to teach. People who know and live the faith. Just like we do with the EMHC.

Yes, I am frustrated too.

Then the Pastors of the PArishes need to speak with their boss. It comes down form the top.
In this Archdiocese you are NOT permitted to teach unless you have a basic catechist certificate, and that requires 20 hours of study , classroom observation of a seasoned catechist, and recruitment by the Pastor and DRE working together.
As DRE, I am REQUIRED to offer continuing ed for my catechists and they are required to come. Period.
The priests in your Diocese can approach the Bishop and ask for more stringent guidelines. I’m teaching VIRTUS for Volunteers tonight, actually, and the entire month of October is devoted to Virtus for the students.
We even go so far as to say there has to be TWO certified catechists in every classroom. Even if there’s only 5 kids enrolled.
Some of the hoops are hard to jump through, but it’s worth it.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Then the Pastors of the PArishes need to speak with their boss. It comes down form the top.
In this Archdiocese you are NOT permitted to teach unless you have a basic catechist certificate, and that requires 20 hours of study , classroom observation of a seasoned catechist, and recruitment by the Pastor and DRE working together.
As DRE, I am REQUIRED to offer continuing ed for my catechists and they are required to come. Period.
The priests in your Diocese can approach the Bishop and ask for more stringent guidelines. I’m teaching VIRTUS for Volunteers tonight, actually, and the entire month of October is devoted to Virtus for the students.
We even go so far as to say there has to be TWO certified catechists in every classroom. Even if there’s only 5 kids enrolled.
Some of the hoops are hard to jump through, but it’s worth it.

i understand poor understanding of the Faith is an issue.

But what about when children are taught correctly, practice with their families. See their parents go to confession and communion. These kids are leaving as well.

 

[pensmama87]

Then the Pastors of the PArishes need to speak with their boss. It comes down form the top.
In this Archdiocese you are NOT permitted to teach unless you have a basic catechist certificate, and that requires 20 hours of study , classroom observation of a seasoned catechist, and recruitment by the Pastor and DRE working together.
As DRE, I am REQUIRED to offer continuing ed for my catechists and they are required to come. Period.
The priests in your Diocese can approach the Bishop and ask for more stringent guidelines. I’m teaching VIRTUS for Volunteers tonight, actually, and the entire month of October is devoted to Virtus for the students.
We even go so far as to say there has to be TWO certified catechists in every classroom. Even if there’s only 5 kids enrolled.
Some of the hoops are hard to jump through, but it’s worth it.

Clare,

God bless you for your dedicated service to your parish and those kids.

I love our DRE and what she’s been doing in our parish. I briefly considered homeschooling CCD, but we have great catechists and my husband and I decided it wasn’t going to hurt to have MORE trusted adults who knew their faith in our children’s lives. I’ve often thought about teaching CCD, but with so many littles right now it’s just not possible. I do help with the baptism prep so hopefully some of what I’m passing on to new parents will make it to their kids.

I am nervous about the world my kids are growing up in. I grew up secular and I know I must have had some people praying hard for me for me to convert and then actually learn the faith. I pray for my kids everyday. My oldest has a Miraculous Medal that lives in his backpack when he goes to school. We use sacramentals, we pray as a family. My husband never left the faith entirely but he didn’t wholeheartedly practice in college. We don’t want that for our kids. Of course, they will be their own people.

It’s scary.

 

[pianistclare]

i understand poor understanding of the Faith is an issue.

But what about when children are taught correctly, practice with their families. See their parents go to confession and communion. These kids are leaving as well.

Families can’t expect the Church to do all the heavy lifting.
I’ll wager those parents go because they think they have to.
Who is telling kids they have to, or should even?

Parents have to talk about the faith AT HOME.
Around the dinner table. When crises occur.
In relation to stories kids bring home from school regarding their friends, what they see and hear.
I f a kid’s go-to response isn’t take it to he Lord in prayer…then why would they return?
I mean really. Why would they ever think of it? Certainly not because parents went to Mass. They’re not going to connect those dots if it’s not part of everyday life. Not just life on Sunday or Weds. nights.
This is the frustration of catechists and pastor everywhere. There’s no magic pill.
Very few children drive. If they are not in church it’s because the family is not in church. Or those same parents don’t want to argue with their kids. I never remember my faith being an argument growing up.
It all depends on where you want to get your info from.
From Fox News? CNN? NPR?
Or the Church.
Hard competing with a world that is completely secularized. One has to be really diligent to teach children to discern the difference between what sounds reasonable, and what is true. People tend to dismiss the craftiness of the prince of lies.

God bless you dear one.

 

[pianistclare]

Clare,

God bless you for your dedicated service to your parish and those kids.

I love our DRE and what she’s been doing in our parish. I briefly considered homeschooling CCD, but we have great catechists and my husband and I decided it wasn’t going to hurt to have MORE trusted adults who knew their faith in our children’s lives. I’ve often thought about teaching CCD, but with so many littles right now it’s just not possible. I do help with the baptism prep so hopefully some of what I’m passing on to new parents will make it to their kids.

I am nervous about the world my kids are growing up in. I grew up secular and I know I must have had some people praying hard for me for me to convert and then actually learn the faith. I pray for my kids everyday. My oldest has a Miraculous Medal that lives in his backpack when he goes to school. We use sacramentals, we pray as a family. My husband never left the faith entirely but he didn’t wholeheartedly practice in college. We don’t want that for our kids. Of course, they will be their own people.

It’s scary.

Your kids are growing up with love.
Christ is your shield.