Many Catholics leaving the faith by age 10

[Peebo]

I enjoy watching the Journey Home program on EWTN…one theme that is quite prevalent among converts is that the behavior of Catholics they knew had nothing to do with their conversion…just the opposite in fact…I can add my own experience to that as a convert and the Catholics I knew…all of who had been educated in Catholic schools…this was back in the sixties…I converted because I actually felt the Holy Spirit leading me to the Catholic Church…of course I did meet many faith filled Catholics once I took those first steps…one elderly lady even told me that Vatican 2 was the greatest thing to happen to the church because now Catholics were no longer forced to attend mass…but rather only those who really were practicing Catholics did so…now I have been a Catholic for 24 years and find there are countless ways for Catholics to continually strengthen their faith…through an understanding of the mass…the history of the church…the lives of the saints…the early church fathers…all the “bells and whistles” and their meanings…the only reason I can see why young people would be leaving the church falls squarely on the parents…mom and dad both working…take the kids to sports…to dance lessons…more “quality time”…etc etc…even if they find time for mass they probably don’t teach them about the faith at home because they are too busy…so no wonder kids aren’t catechized…they see by example of their parents…Catholic schools are run by secular teachers…many are probably married and have the same busy schedules outside of school and most probably have never been properly catechized themselves…unfortunately I think it’s too late to close the barn door…the horse has already bolted…that goes for Christianity as a whole…it’s going to take some monumental earth shaking event before people get back to putting God first in their lives…and in their childrens lives.

 

[Beautiful]

Even more confusing: When one kid stays, but the others stray.

Within my own family, of the 6 children (Myself, my brother, and our 4 cousins), I’m the only one who is still Catholic.

Don’t be confused.
Grace
God’s Grace…everything.
Remain steadfast but know that all is Grace.

 

[Paganus]

It’s the job of parents first and foremost…
I went to Catholic school with beautiful Sisters of Charity. I barely remember what they taught me. But I saw their devotion…
…Until some young person encounters a person of REAL FAITH…they won’t “get” it. And they won’t be satisfied with teachers who are just winging it.

Well stated! The answer is ‘holiness’. And, in the absence of holy teaching orders providing that saintly example to your children, the answer is ‘be a holy parent.’

 

[pianistclare]

OK, so, not to monopolize the entire thread but this happened today:

phone rings in my office:
It’s a woman who used to go to our parish, her child made her First communion 3 years ago.

*Hi! Remember me?
Yes, how are you, have not seen you awhile.
We’ve been MIA from St. M’s
We’ve been visiting other churches.
Oh?
Yes, and my daughter has been asking to go back to Catholic Mass, sigh. .
(me shocked…I thought she meant other parishes)
So I want to enroll her in Sunday school, but I don’t know where she belongs. I mean, she skipped a grade in regular school remember, and she’s in 6th grade now.
So should I put her in Sunday school or EDGE? Can I bring her to both for a couple of weeks and see which she likes better? She’s been enrolled in Bible class at various non-denominational churches, so it’s not like she’s been away from the faith.

Come in to my office on Sunday and let me talk to her. *

So see? People believe that faith, any Christian faith is interchangable, and it doesn’t matter where you go to church. This child, apparently has experienced the Eucharist in a profound way and longs for it. And her mother thinks she should be “indulged” if you will.

Such is life in our age.
Things don’t matter.
So long as you “feel” right, it’s alright.

I look forward to seeing this child again. As I recall, she’s a darling little girl, now a pre-teen. Thank the Holy Spirit she is returning.

We have these scenarios more and more.

In fact, we have many kids who refuse to be Confirmed.
They don’t like the church’s stand on gay marriage, cohabitation, don’t think Sunday observances are necessary, want to marry on the beach someday. …you know, all the stuff that matters to a teenager. And their parents let them walk.
They don’t try to persuade, they just don’t want to argue with a kid they only see for a few hours a week in the first place.

America’s children are left to their own devices, much of the time. At least some of them.
If you know good Catholic families with great Catholic kids and teens, hug them, pray for them, give them a lot of respect. They certainly deserve it for holding the family together in faith.

 

[JimG]

. . . .
America’s children are left to their own devices, much of the time. At least some of them.
If you know good Catholic families with great Catholic kids and teens, hug them, pray for them, give them a lot of respect. They certainly deserve it for holding the family together in faith.

This is so sad. Parents owe their children moral guidance and moral authority. You don’t ask a child his religious preference: you guide him or her to the truth. Just as you don’t let them fill up their bodies with junk food, you don’t let them fill up their minds with nonsense.

Parents have authority over their children and they owe them moral guidance, but the sad part is that they can’t give what they don’t have.

There is an article in the latest issue of First Things titled “Don’t Ask the Kids,” by a physician, Leonard Sax. He describes changes in parent-child interactions over the years which have made his job harder. In the past he would say, “Now I’m going to examine your throat,” and proceed with the examination with no problem. Now the parent interjects, “Honey, do you mind if the doctor examines your throat?” This makes the child think she has a decision to make about the matter. She doesn’t. He also applies this changed interaction to the issue of moral authority. The child is not the arbiter of moral authority. The parent is, or should be. But the parent must be properly formed as well.

 

[pianistclare]

This is so sad. Parents owe their children moral guidance and moral authority. You don’t ask a child his religious preference: you guide him or her to the truth. Just as you don’t let them fill up their bodies with junk food, you don’t let them fill up their minds with nonsense.

Parents have authority over their children and they owe them moral guidance, but the sad part is that they can’t give what they don’t have.

There is an article in the latest issue of First Things titled “Don’t Ask the Kids,” by a physician, Leonard Sax. He describes changes in parent-child interactions over the years which have made his job harder. In the past he would say, “Now I’m going to examine your throat,” and proceed with the examination with no problem. Now the parent interjects, “Honey, do you mind if the doctor examines your throat?” This makes the child think she has a decision to make about the matter. She doesn’t. He also applies this changed interaction to the issue of moral authority. The child is not the arbiter of moral authority. The parent is, or should be. But the parent must be properly formed as well.

that sounds like an interesting article. I’ll look it up, thanks!!!

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Thinking about this some more I remember when I used to do Sunday School and some of those kids were very enthusiastic and I think felt committed to the church. Sadly their parents often didn’t seem at all willing to encourage this. I don’t want to be too judging of these parents, I know that in most families both parents have to work, I get that when you are busy and exhausted you get quite possessive of your time. That said it’s really sad when you ask someone to do a bidding prayer next week and “Amy” volunteers but you know her family only go to mass once a month or that it’s a struggle to persuade the parents to give up 30 minutes after mass so the kids can stay after mass for a rehearsal.

I think once this enthusiasm is gone it takes an awful lot to get it back and I wish the adults in their lives would do more to encourage them.

 

[oneofmany]

How can a kid leave the faith at 10? Do they let the kids stay at home? Do they let them stay at home if school bores them?

 

[pianistclare]

How can a kid leave the faith at 10? Do they let the kids stay at home? Do they let them stay at home if school bores them?

Yes. We find that often competitive soccer calls. Competitive cheerleading. Golf. Need to go grocery shopping. You name it. One hour a week for Mass seems too intrusive for some people, let alone religious ed classes.
We’re talking a out maybe 60 percent of people. There are wonderful faithful families, yes. But are they enough to change the world? To support a parish after the elders die? In times of crisis? For vocations?
That’s what’s crucial. We’re failing our kids.
They have very few life skills, very low prayer life.
May God give strength to faithful parents in the face of so much working against them in this world.

 

[Phemie]

How can a kid leave the faith at 10? Do they let the kids stay at home? Do they let them stay at home if school bores them?

How can you not leave the faith when hockey and soccer are more important than Mass?

We had a woman who taught baptismal preparation. I don’t know why she was hand picked by Sister, who was the parish Admnistrator while we were without a Pastor, but she was. Her boys were both in hockey big time and as a hockey mom she was expected to volunteer her time. So, since their league played on Sunday morning she wasn’t in church for most of the winter. Her husband wasn’t Catholic.

I recall one of the first prep sessions I attended after I joined the preparation team and she made the comment that it wasn’t so important to attend Mass, what was in your heart was what counted. She said that often you have to compromise and gave as an example having to go to the cabin with her husband and boys for the entire weekend because, well hubby is not Catholic and he gets annoyed if she doesn’t go to the cabin. Then she looked at me and said, “Phemie, you must know what that’s like since your husband is not Catholic either.” I picked my jaw up off the floor and said, “No, when it comes to Mass there is no compromise. My husband knew that going in and has always supported me in making sure the children attend Mass every week.”

How on earth do you expect parents to do the right thing when they are taught the wrong thing before they even have their child baptized?

 

[Phemie]

Yes. We find that often competitive soccer calls. Competitive cheerleading. Golf. Need to go grocery shopping. You name it. One hour a week for Mass seems too intrusive for some people, let alone religious ed classes.
We’re talking a out maybe 60 percent of people. There are wonderful faithful families, yes. But are they enough to change the world? To support a parish after the elders die? In times of crisis? For vocations?
That’s what’s crucial. We’re failing our kids.
They have very few life skills, very low prayer life.
May God give strength to faithful parents in the face of so much working against them in this world.

Right now the only way our parish is staying alive is through the Filipino and African families that have moved into our town for work over the last 5 or 6 years. Only a handful of local young families attend Mass and we haven’t had religious education (other than 6-8 sessions for First Communion) in years.

 

[pianistclare]

Right now the only way our parish is staying alive is through the Filipino and African families that have moved into our town for work over the last 5 or 6 years. Only a handful of local young families attend Mass and we haven’t had religious education (other than 6-8 sessions for First Communion) in years.

Have the Canadian Bishops issued any statements? What are they saying is the reason fro no Religious Ed? Cost? Available catechists?
I’d be interested to know what their Conference thinks about it.
I’d agree that here, the Mexican families are keeping things afloat. Regardless of whether they are adequately formed when they arrive here, at least they very much see the value of keeping their children in Church. Each community can learn from one another. The American kids have more facts in their toolboxes about the faith, but the Mexican kids are much more reverent at Mass and attentive in class. They compliment each other and they do help each other. Our kids pretty much don’t see people from other cultures as different except in their approach to faith.

 

[ATeNumquam]

Right now the only way our parish is staying alive is through the Filipino and African families that have moved into our town for work over the last 5 or 6 years. Only a handful of local young families attend Mass and we haven’t had religious education (other than 6-8 sessions for First Communion) in years.

The very same is true here in my parish in New Zealand, as far as the Filipinos go - and Indians (a big community from the Kerala province). And Samoans and Tongans. Heaps of kids and young adults. All very devout, which is actually contagious, I reckon. But not a lot of Kiwi New Zealanders.
There are two churches in my combined parish, and I attend them both depending on my other commitments. The church I mainly attend with the far more multi-racial congregation has a more prayerful “atmosphere” so to speak as well as far bigger congregations. The other church is in a more well-to-do suburb, largely monocultural with hardly any kids. (A great youth music group however, which has to be a positive).

I know the immigrant communities are keeping parishes all over my country alive.
Maybe they are the new evangelists? I tend to rejoice over this rather than feeling depressed.

 

[Phemie]

Have the Canadian Bishops issued any statements? What are they saying is the reason fro no Religious Ed? Cost? Available catechists?
I’d be interested to know what their Conference thinks about it.
I’d agree that here, the Mexican families are keeping things afloat. Regardless of whether they are adequately formed when they arrive here, at least they very much see the value of keeping their children in Church. Each community can learn from one another. The American kids have more facts in their toolboxes about the faith, but the Mexican kids are much more reverent at Mass and attentive in class. They compliment each other and they do help each other. Our kids pretty much don’t see people from other cultures as different except in their approach to faith.

This is not a Canadian thing, it’s a dysfunctional parish thing.

Our province was an anomaly on the Canadian landscape in that we never had public schools. All our schools were denominational – Catholic, Integrated (the mainline Protestant Churches), and in much smaller numbers Pentecostal and Salvation Army. Schools were funded by the public purse and Catholic schools got the same amount per student from the government as the others. So there was no extra expense to send your kid to a Catholic rather than to a non-Catholic school. That’s how the province had run its schools for over 100 years. What it meant though, was that even in small communities there we instances of duplication of services. While the Catholic school closest to the church was K-12, it duplicated for about 50 high school students what the Integrated high school had for 400. In other cases it meant that the Integrated system offered French Immersion but the Catholic system didn’t.

The government held two referendums in the 1990s looking for permission to dismantle the denominational system in favor of a non-denominational system. Religion would still be taught but not a specific religion. You can see where this is going. They won the second one and by 1998 we no longer had Catholic schools, except for two private schools in the two largest cities. There is no way that parents here, except for maybe a few of the better off ethnic families, would pay for Catholic education. Remember, they voted to get rid of it. In a town that at one point had 6 schools, 2 Catholic (1 K-12, 1 K-9) and 4 Integrated (1 High School, 1 Jr. High, 2 K-6) now have 3 (K-3, 4-7, 8-12).

At that time our diocese set up a home-parish catechesis program but, save but one family, our parents, who had never had to teach their kids anything, refused to be involved. They wanted a school model but we had no teachers and nobody was willing to put themselves forward.

At the same time the diocesan catechetics coordinator opted for a new program for First Communion and the bishop agreed with Confirmation and First Communion together. For 8 years that’s how thing ran. 8 Confirmation/First Communion sessions and the kids didn’t see any other catechesis. I taught the program the first year. It was less than stellar. To be honest, I can’t recall that it taught that they’d be receiving Jesus. I made sure to tell them that myself. Less than 50% ever came back to church other than maybe at Christmas.

Then our bishop became bishop of another diocese where Confirmation was in grade 10. He decreed that for a happy medium we would now be no more combined Confirmation/First Communion but Confirmation could take place at any time between grades 6-10, it was up to the parish. At that point we had no older students for Confirmation, they’d already been confirmed when they were 7. There were no Confirmations again until 2015 once the new Pastor took it upon himself to teach a Confirmation class and found that the students were Catholicism/Christianity illiterate.

Now our diocese has just instituted another school model program of catechesis with the caveat that children have to have two years of catechesis before they are eligible to prepare for First Communion. Confirmation remains at the grade 6 to 10 level and they too must have had 2 years of post First Communion catechesis. Problem is we still don’t have anyone to teach it. Two women with no training in catechesis are doing Children’s Liturgy and it looks like the two year catechesis thing will be ignored for this year.

We have a new priest who is also new to the country so I’m not sure exactly how this is all going to work out.

 

[Padres1969]

How can a kid leave the faith at 10? Do they let the kids stay at home? Do they let them stay at home if school bores them?

Besides even the distraction issue mentioned by others, just because they’re still going to church, or being forced to go to church by their parents, doesn’t mean they’re in the faith any longer. I mean speaking for myself, I wasn’t 10, but when I left I was still attending mass for a few months as a de-facto social exercise after I’d decided I no longer believed what the RCC taught. It’s not hard to imagine someone at 10 who has no real choice if they go to mass (unless their parents of course give them an option), making a similar decision but going along with what mom or dad say since they have no choice at the time but then retroactively deciding it was before 10 they’d stopped believing.

 

[JimG]

that sounds like an interesting article. I’ll look it up, thanks!!!

I found it online:

Don’t Ask the Kids

 

[pensmama87]

Besides even the distraction issue mentioned by others, just because they’re still going to church, or being forced to go to church by their parents, doesn’t mean they’re in the faith any longer. I mean speaking for myself, I wasn’t 10, but when I left I was still attending mass for a few months as a de-facto social exercise after I’d decided I no longer believed what the RCC taught. It’s not hard to imagine someone at 10 who has no real choice if they go to mass (unless their parents of course give them an option), making a similar decision but going along with what mom or dad say since they have no choice at the time but then retroactively deciding it was before 10 they’d stopped believing.

It’s still ridiculous because 10 year olds, for the most part, don’t know much about how to answer “the big questions” (though they’re on the cusp of that very difficult age when they think they know a lot more than they actually do.)

Ugh. I can’t believe what sort of person I’d be if I stuck to what I thought I believed at 10, and if my parents had thrown up their hands and said, “Oh well, she’s made up her mind, what can we do?” Unfortunately, when it comes to the faith, many parents don’t have adequate answers and so many children (and teens, and young adults, and now even older) have this terrible perception that all religious people are stupid. If you’ve ever been on an atheist forum populated by “clever” teens and 20-somethings going on about “stupid sky daddies,” you’ll know exactly what I mean. You can’t even address the most basic theological questions with them because they’re so convinced of their own superiority.

 

[pianistclare]

It’s still ridiculous because 10 year olds, for the most part, don’t know much about how to answer “the big questions” (though they’re on the cusp of that very difficult age when they think they know a lot more than they actually do.)

Ugh. I can’t believe what sort of person I’d be if I stuck to what I thought I believed at 10, and if my parents had thrown up their hands and said, “Oh well, she’s made up her mind, what can we do?” Unfortunately, when it comes to the faith, many parents don’t have adequate answers and so many children (and teens, and young adults, and now even older) have this terrible perception that all religious people are stupid. If you’ve ever been on an atheist forum populated by “clever” teens and 20-somethings going on about “stupid sky daddies,” you’ll know exactly what I mean. You can’t even address the most basic theological questions with them because they’re so convinced of their own superiority.

Well stated.

 

[Padres1969]

It’s still ridiculous because 10 year olds, for the most part, don’t know much about how to answer “the big questions” (though they’re on the cusp of that very difficult age when they think they know a lot more than they actually do.)

Ugh. I can’t believe what sort of person I’d be if I stuck to what I thought I believed at 10, and if my parents had thrown up their hands and said, “Oh well, she’s made up her mind, what can we do?” Unfortunately, when it comes to the faith, many parents don’t have adequate answers and so many children (and teens, and young adults, and now even older) have this terrible perception that all religious people are stupid. If you’ve ever been on an atheist forum populated by “clever” teens and 20-somethings going on about “stupid sky daddies,” you’ll know exactly what I mean. You can’t even address the most basic theological questions with them because they’re so convinced of their own superiority.

Well as I said, just because they’ve left the faith mentally and spiritually doesn’t mean they’ve left it physically. The parents may not be aware of the extent of their child’s “going through the motions.” Just because they’ve left mentally doesn’t mean the parents have given up, or even that they’re aware their kid no longer believes. Again to relate it to my own life, my brother, who today is an atheist, has been so for quite a long time. But he went through the motions for many years before you’d have been able to say as an outside observer (not inside his head) that he was no longer Catholic. I mean he altar served until 8th grade and went to Catholic High School and the accompanying religious education and involvement that entailed. But he didn’t believe a word of it anymore. And if you ask him today when he’d really left the faith, he’d tell you it was long before he physically stopped being involved with the RCC, back to his days when he was still an altar server.

 

[Thorolfr]

Well as I said, just because they’ve left the faith mentally and spiritually doesn’t mean they’ve left it physically. The parents may not be aware of the extent of their child’s “going through the motions.” Just because they’ve left mentally doesn’t mean the parents have given up, or even that they’re aware their kid no longer believes. Again to relate it to my own life, my brother, who today is an atheist, has been so for quite a long time. But he went through the motions for many years before you’d have been able to say as an outside observer (not inside his head) that he was no longer Catholic. I mean he altar served until 8th grade and went to Catholic High School and the accompanying religious education and involvement that entailed. But he didn’t believe a word of it anymore. And if you ask him today when he’d really left the faith, he’d tell you it was long before he physically stopped being involved with the RCC, back to his days when he was still an altar server.

I can actually see adults still going to a church, too, for purely social reasons but not really believing in God any more.