Marian dogmas, crucial for salvation?

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I mean, when St. Gabriel tells Mary she’s going to bear a son, she responds, “How shall this be, for I know not man?” You can take this at face value, and say she was a virgin at the moment. Upon a further look, you will realize she was betrothed to Joseph, and so this was an illogical answer. They could have just gotten straight to business if you know what I mean. This easily means that she’s going to remain a virgin, and she doesn’t want to break her vow of virginity. But hey, what do I know? 🤷‍♂️
 
St. Aquinas had a good reasoning for believing in the Immaculate Conception.
 
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It’s my understanding that under Jewish custom, they were married in the eyes of the law, but would not have had relations until she and Joseph lived together, which hadn’t yet happened at the time of the angel’s visit. I’m sure there were couples who didn’t abide by “the rules” for one reason or other, but I’m equally sure Mary was telling the truth to the angel.
 
Are you sure they weren’t living together? I thought they were during that time.
 
po18guy said:
In my mind, further evidence that the idea was planted by “an enemy.” The “handmaid/servant/bond slave” of the Lord could not and did not seek her own carnal pleasure.
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Sorry, but that could give the impression of sex being dirty. There is nothing wrong with married couples having sex and getting pleasure from it.

I accept that Mary remained a virgin. The strongest argument imo is her question to the angel Gabriel when he tells her that she will conceive. To me it does not seem like the reaction of a woman planning on having intercourse with her husband.
 
One argument in favor of Virgin Mary not having children besides Jesus is found at the crucifixion when Jesus Christ Himself tells The Apostle John “Behold Your Mother”. If Mary had had other children, it would have been logical for at least one of them to have been at the scene of their brother’s crucifixion to grieve Jesus’ death and console their mother. However, no such mention. Just food for thought from someone whose own views on Mary have evolved over the years.

I share a few of the OP’s concerns, but Mary having children is not one of them. I have come to believe that Mary has such importance to Catholics because of the importance of who Jesus is.
 
jmgi1957 said:
it is NOT from Scripture itself.
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jmgi1957 said:
Because Scripture certainly DOES NOT give the indication
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jmgi1957 said:
nor does it CLEARLY say
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jmgi1957 said:
is CLEARLY not Scriptural either
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We aren’t Sola Scriptura people… I think this is where you’re having problems. The bible came from the Church and not the other way around.

Christ gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter. He told Peter to feed the sheep. The Church was given the power to bind and loose.

John 16:12-14 makes it clear that early Christianity didn’t get complete understanding.
"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. 5 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
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2 Peter 1:20 makes it clear that we aren’t to interpret Scripture ourselves.
Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.
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If it was a free-for-all where everyone can choose the parts they believe, how can that be truth? This isn’t Catholic. ‘If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.’ If Christ left us divided where we pick and choose what is and isn’t truth, how would truth be found?

The Catholic Church is united in its belief. We believe and accept that Christ built a Church with God-given authority.

‘I will not leave you orphans’
‘And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.’
 
You should accept all of the Marian dogma’s but you won’t go to hell if you don’t.
 
Okay, well, you’re not alone on this. I too raised Catholic, but could not biblically connect the doctrines of the Apostolic Church with doctrines and traditions that came through Rome centuries later. In many cases they contradict, especially on the subject of Mary. The earliest Apostles and gospel writers did not teach the Marian dogma for a good reason, … there was no such thing, nor did they believe such thing.
 
Did not mean that. Obviously my bad once again.

POINT IS: How could she vow to God, then turn away from God’s only Son and care for other children?
 
jmgi1957 said:
This would sound like a double standard, wouldn’t you think?
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Jesus said, “And that servant who knew his master’s will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.” (Luke 12:47-48)
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The Catechism of the Catholic Church, in the section entitled, “Outside the Church there is no salvation” (846-849), discusses the possibility of salvation for those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church. By the same reasoning, salvation is possible for those, who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Marian dogmas. First-century Christians, who, through no fault of their own, did not know of one or more of the Marian dogmas that we know of today, would have been excused, by reason of their ignorance, from having to give positive assent to them.
 
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awesomecatholic said:
You should accept all of the Marian dogma’s but you won’t go to hell if you don’t.
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You have no idea whether someone might or might not go to hell for not accepting a dogma. You cannot make such blanket statements about a required belief of the Church. We simply don’t know, and it would also probably depend on the individual person’s mindset and circumstances.
 
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True,but I suggest you see what the catechism says. You do however have to accept the Marian dogmas to be Catholic.
 
jmgi1957 said:
After being a Catholic my entire life, I just recently had this thought when reading Scripture, specifically Acts of the Apostles; Why is it that people were saved in the first century without believing in the Marian dogma’s?
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You came to understand “not to believe another Gospel” from reading the Acts of the Apostles?

Ironic.

Still. There’s only one truth, one Gospel. God loves you. Marian dogmas do not contradict that truth. They extrapolate that truth, further define that truth.

The most important thing to remember, is that all the Marian dogmas are about Christ. Not Mary. When looking at them one should think “what does this say about Christ?”
 
jmgi1957 . . .
Mary would have told someone that she had an impure thought?
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She didn’t have to.
LUKE 1:26-28 26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28
And he came to her and said,
“Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!”
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jmgi1957, Do you think the Blessed Virgin Mary had to tell the Archangel Gabriel about lacking impure thoughts?

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
I didn’t say anything about Catholicism and accepting Marian Dogmas and I know what the Catechism says. You told someone they wouldn’t go to Hell. You don’t have a clue if a person would or would not go to Hell, so you shouldn’t tell people they won’t go to Hell any more than you should tell them they will definitely go to Hell.
That was my point and you telling me I need to read the Catechism makes zero sense.
 
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