Mark 13:32

[Holly3278]

(Mark 13:32 NAB-A) But of that day or hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

How could Jesus and the Father both be God but yet Jesus would not know when the day or the hour was?

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus was fully human in addition to being fully Divine (people tend to forget that part). The human mind had to learn to walk and talk and eat. It didn’t automatically have fully access to divine knowledge, although His Godly Self did. Jesus’ Divine Will did not reveal this to His Human Will.

 

[Holly3278]

Jesus was fully human in addition to being fully Divine (people tend to forget that part). The human mind had to learn to walk and talk and eat. It didn’t automatically have fully access to divine knowledge, although His Godly Self did. Jesus’ Divine Will did not reveal this to His Human Will.

Oh ok. I think I understand. Thanks!

 

[NotWorthy]

Oh ok. I think I understand. Thanks!

If you look at Jesus’ prayer in the Garden of Gethsemene, it might shed some light on this conundrum. Jesus wanted to fulfill God’s Will, but He would have preferred to do it without suffering so much. It had to be a test of His Will to accept to the torture and death.

 

[Holly3278]

If you look at Jesus’ prayer in the Garden of Gethsemene, it might shed some light on this conundrum. Jesus wanted to fulfill God’s Will, but He would have preferred to do it without suffering so much. It had to be a test of His Will to accept to the torture and death.

Oh ok. Thanks again!

 

[Mailman]

(Mark 13:32 NAB-A) But of that day or hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

How could Jesus and the Father both be God but yet Jesus would not know when the day or the hour was?

The question should be: How could God be a trinity when only God the Father knows when that hour is, while the other two - God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - do not know?

 

[erikd]

The question should be: How could God be a trinity when only God the Father knows when that hour is, while the other two - God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - do not know?

Hi Mailman, I believe that NotWorthy did a pretty good job of answering that question in post #2. The Holy Trinity did know, which means that the Divine nature of Jesus Christ did not reveal this to the human nature of Jesus Christ. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one and therefore they would have all known.

 

[Mailman]

Hi Mailman, I believe that NotWorthy did a pretty good job of answering that question in post #2. The Holy Trinity did know, which means that the Divine nature of Jesus Christ did not reveal this to the human nature of Jesus Christ. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one and therefore they would have all known.

Hi erikd,
I’m sorry, but I don’t see how NotWorthy’s post answered my question. NotWorthy addressed the OP’s question which concerns only the Son. NotWorthy acknowledged that the Son did not know and that this was because His divine nature did not reveal this to His human nature.

Now, if that were so, how is the case with the Holy Spirit explained? Notice Christ said [in Matt. 24:36] that “the Father ALONE” knows the hour. He could not have meant only the trinity knew because in Mark 13:32 He specifically mentioned the Son, one of the personalities in the Trinity, as not having that knowledge. Although the Holy Spirit was not specifically mentioned, the implication is clear that the Holy Spirit did not know as well.

You’re saying since the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one, therefore, they would have all known. But that contradicts Christ’s clear statement that, “NO ONE knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON (one of three in the Trinity), but the Father ALONE.” How could they have all known when the Father ALONE knows?

 

[Cachonga]

Mailman:

You’re saying since the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one, therefore, they would have all known. But that contradicts Christ’s clear statement that, “NO ONE knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON (one of three in the Trinity), but the Father ALONE.” How could they have all known when the Father ALONE knows?

There is one God. There are three persons in the Godhead. All three are fully God, but they do not all perform the same “functions” (or have the same “jobs” for lack of better terms). Just because only the Father knows when the end will come doesn’t mean the Son and Holy Spirit are any less God. Only Jesus became incarnate, and only the Holy Spirit seals believers. Each is still fully God, but they do different things in relation to us (though in perfect unity).

Does this answer your question?

 

[SonofAdam]

There is one God. There are three persons in the Godhead. All three are fully God, but they do not all perform the same “functions” (or have the same “jobs” for lack of better terms). Just because only the Father knows when the end will come doesn’t mean the Son and Holy Spirit are any less God. Only Jesus became incarnate, and only the Holy Spirit seals believers. Each is still fully God, but they do different things in relation to us (though in perfect unity).

Does this answer your question?

This is very very very confusing. All Prophets(peace be upon them) must teach a clear teaching, especially when it comes to what God is and what He isn’t because people need to know what deserves worship and it is also necessary that they know what doesn’t deserve worship in order for them not to commit the unforgiving sin-associating partners with God Almighty-; so having said that some fundamental questions come to mind from the statements made above which are:

1.What is the concept of God within Catholicism?

1. What is the defintion of ‘fully God’? in your statement[above]

You said ‘Only Jesus became incarnate,’ in your statement[above]

1. What do you mean here when you say ‘Only Jesus’?

 

[Benadam]

The Father 'generates eternally, Cognizance of Himself. God knowing God eternally. The Cognizance of God is His Word. God loves God whom He knows and God’s Love Spirates eternally.The Spirated Love of God is His Holy Spirit.

Because only God can know God as God would know, the second divine Person is generated. Because only God can Love God as God, the third divine Person is spirated…

The Word of God is eternally generated knowledge of God. Because God the Father generates His kind He is trully a Father and the Person generated is trully a Son. He is author of His Knowledge, Who is His Word, and author of His Love, who is the Holy Spirit. Being the authority of God He communicates according to His will.

The Catholic position from the Catholic Encyclopedia.

After all that has been written on this question in recent years, we see no need to add anything to the traditional explanations: the Son has no knowledge of the judgment day which He may communicate; or, the Son has no knowledge of this event, which spring from His human nature as such, or again, the Son has no knowledge of the day and the hour, that has not been communicated to Him by the Father.

Link to the page newadvent.org/cathen/08675a.htm

 

[SonofAdam]

Thank you for your attempt at trying to explain the concept of God * but unfortunately its still confusing.

The Father 'generates eternally, Cognizance of Himself. God knowing God eternally. The Cognizance of God is His Word. God loves God whom He knows and God’s Love Spirates eternally.The Spirated Love of God is His Holy Spirit.

Can you please explain what this means?

Because only God can know God as God would know, the second divine Person is generated. Because only God can Love God as God, the third divine Person is spirated.

Generated means to bring into being or existence or to produce. If something is produced, it has a beginning and God Almighty is beginningless so anything that has a beginning cannot be described as being Him. Once something has a beginning, it automatically qualifies the person/object not being God Almighty but rather His creation i.e., something He created. Anything created does not deserve worship.

The Word of God is eternally generated knowledge of God. Because God the Father generates His kind He is trully a Father and the Person generated is trully a Son. He is author of His Knowledge, Who is His Word, and author of His Love, who is the Holy Spirit. Being the authority of God He communicates according to His will.

What does it mean when it says ‘God the Father generates His kind.’*

 

[po18guy]

The question should be: How could God be a trinity when only God the Father knows when that hour is, while the other two - God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - do not know?

Actually, we have no evidence that the Holy Spirit does not know, only that Jesus and the angels do not know. We are aware that Jesus could not/would not reveal it to the Apostles. Since He knows everything about man (John 21:17), He also knew that, like the Galatians, the Apostles would likely stop evangelizing and just wait for the day of Jesus’ return - had they known of the day. Again, if you believe in one God in three persons, it is not difficult of a concept, is it?

I wonder if the Orthodox, who believe that the Spirit proceeds only from the Father, also believe that the Spirit knows of the day and hour?

 

[SonofAdam]

Actually, we have no evidence that the Holy Spirit does not know, only that Jesus and the angels do not know. We are aware that Jesus could not/would not reveal it to the Apostles. Since He knows everything about man (John 21:17),

This is just my view on this issue:

I would say that the only way to reconciliate the contradictory statements is by saying that Jesus (peace be upon him) only knows what The Creator has revealed to him to know. So if **he said **that he didn’t know something, then that is the truth. The Creator is the Only one Who knows everything.This doesn’t mean that Jesus (peace be upon him and his blessed mother) is less in status because he said that he didn’t know something; he was a human being and a messenger, just like the messengers that came before him(peace be upon all of them). Their status is much greater than any one of us even if they said ’ I don’t know’ to something. ‘I don’t know’ simply means The Creator has not revealed this knowledge to me. If Jesus(peace be upon him) truely said something and it came to be then this is a matter of prophecy that was not exclusively given to him.

 

[po18guy]

This is just my view on this issue:

I would say that the only way to reconciliate the contradictory statements is by saying that Jesus (peace be upon him) only knows what The Creator has revealed to him to know. So if **he said **that he didn’t know something, then that is the truth. The Creator is the Only one Who knows everything.This doesn’t mean that Jesus (peace be upon him and his blessed mother) is less in status because he said that he didn’t know something; he was a human being and a messenger, just like the messengers that came before him(peace be upon all of them). Their status is much greater than any one of us even if they said ’ I don’t know’ to something. ‘I don’t know’ simply means The Creator has not revealed this knowledge to me. If Jesus(peace be upon him) truely said something and it came to be then this is a matter of prophecy that was not exclusively given to him.

And, your kind post points to the similarities and differences between Islam and Christianity. We have unity in believing that both Jesus and Mary are blessed forever, but differences as to the nature of the Christ Himself. May we work toward universal understanding and pray that God will be with us all…

 

[Cachonga]

SonofAdam:

This is very very very confusing. All Prophets(peace be upon them) must teach a clear teaching, especially when it comes to what God is and what He isn’t because people need to know what deserves worship and it is also necessary that they know what doesn’t deserve worship in order for them not to commit the unforgiving sin-associating partners with God Almighty-; so having said that some fundamental questions come to mind from the statements made above which are:

1.What is the concept of God within Catholicism?

1. What is the defintion of ‘fully God’? in your statement[above]

You said ‘Only Jesus became incarnate,’ in your statement[above]

1. What do you mean here when you say ‘Only Jesus’?

It might be helpful to keep in mind that God created (among other things) time as we know it. God, however, as the creator, transcends time. The creation that we know and live in was created by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, working in perfect harmony with each other. What God was like before He created us, we do not know (nor do we need to) To answer your questions -

1. God is three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) in one being (God). Even the Hebrew uses the plural form when speaking of God (Elohim), yet they recognize that He is one.
2. Any member of the Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) can do anything. Each one is God in the every sense.
3. When I said “Only Jesus became incarnate”, I meant that the second person of the Godhead (the Son) became incarnate. Neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit became incarnate.

I will add that God is completely different from anything we know of, so comparisons fall short of any accurate description of Him. While I may not fully understand how God is three persons, I recognize this is clearly described in Scripture, which is God breathed. As far as who to pray to, I think Scripture is clear (again), that we pray to the Father, in the name of the Son (Jesus), through the Holy Spirit (who searches our hearts and knows what we truly need).

 

[Holly3278]

I can no longer believe in Catholicism and Christianity. Things like this are just too contradictory for me. This never did make sense to me and I doubt it ever will. I am going back to my old faith of Wicca.

 

[Cristian_B]

(Mark 13:32 NAB-A) But of that day or hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

How could Jesus and the Father both be God but yet Jesus would not know when the day or the hour was?

Because

The Son ≠ The Father

They are not the same person.

Who told you that The Son is the exact same person as The Father?

 

[NotWorthy]

I can no longer believe in Catholicism and Christianity. Things like this are just too contradictory for me. This never did make sense to me and I doubt it ever will. I am going back to my old faith of Wicca.

Holly, didn’t you just write a well-written article on the Eucharist… merely a few days ago?!? Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean you should run away from it. Look back to your article. Remember Peter’s words at the end of John 6? “Lord, to whom else would we go? For you have the words of everlasting life.” Translation - “Jesus, I have on clue what you are saying, but I know that You know what you are talking about”.

Try and be like Peter, even when you don’t understand!

 

[Holly3278]

Because

The Son ≠ The Father

They are not the same person.

No, but Catholicism does teach that they are one God. So that doesn’t make sense to me. God is all knowing, right? Shouldn’t all three persons of the trinity be all knowing then?