No where in the suggestion was there any comment about making known his views that he is against birth control. In fact, if you read carefully the comment I replied to, the poster more or less suggested the usage of ABC.Actually, as long as he tries to convince his wife to desist with contraception (periodically, lovingly, not as a constant nag) it is allowable for a husband to have intercourse with a contracepting wife, so as not to cause a complete breakdown in the marriage.
As long as he has mad his anti-contraception views clear, the sin is hers, not his.
This has been covered by the Apologists in multiple questions.
God Bless
Not sure who told you THAT. God designed the female body and the male body to complement each other, to fit together during intercourse and bring both to orgasm. Sure, some people have physical, conditioning or other problems, but most people have regular function in the sex organs.Intercourse itself is generally not fulfilling for women, Very few can achieve climax due to intercourse alone, and some can even experience pain due to intercourse.
And God put the clitoris where it is so it will be stimulated by intercourse.Statistics. The woman’s sexual organ is the clitoris which is outside the vagina, vaginal orgasms are pretty rare. The studies I remember say it’s about 70% of women who are incapable of vaginal orgasms.
If the man doesn’t do oral sex or manual stimulation, he should not be surprised if his wife is not interested in sex with him.
Uh huhNot sure who told you THAT. God designed the female body and the male body to complement each other, to fit together during intercourse and bring both to orgasm. Sure, some people have physical, conditioning or other problems, but most people have regular function in the sex organs.
Beyond a doubt.And God put the clitoris where it is so it will be stimulated by intercourse.
Right, but if it’s not followed/preceded/coincides with oral/manual stimulation of the clitoris it will be frustrating for most women, just like if a man was aroused/stimulated but not brought to completion.That doesn’t mean they don’t find intercourse to be pleasurable, however.
God Bless
Maybe, maybe the OP needs to change his sexual technique during intercourse to make it more appealing to the wife.What you say is true. However, it’s not the lack of stimulation he is referring to, it’s the lack of intercourse. The two are not mutually exclusive, so it is curious why she accepts one and not the other. There has to be a reason and it could be the solution to his problem.
Also depends on the size of the woman’s clitoris, and the positioning during sex. The only way it’s going to be stimulated, unless the woman has a really large clitoris, is if the man is laying on top and rubbing against it with his pelvic bone. Probably not everyone’s favorite sexual position, and probably not feasible unless the guy is in really good shape and can last for a long time.You never noticed that the physical placement of the clitoris
allows for stimulation in the very act of intercourse?
That’s rather commonly known.
Right, but if it’s not followed/preceded/coincides …QUOTE]
Please backtrack and read kagear’s posts
We are older women and we’re saying you’re incorrect - because you are incorrect.
Please backtrack and read kage ar’s postsRight, but if it’s not followed/preceded/coincides …
There is no correct or incorrect here, as women are different. Some women are also capable of having orgasms by internal stimulation of the vagina, most are not.Please backtrack and read kage ar’s posts
We are older women and we’re saying you’re incorrect - because you are incorrect.
I think you are quite correct here and those women who have no trouble having an orgasm from intercourse alone should be grateful. There is no way they can know what other women do or don’t experience.There is no correct or incorrect here, as women are different. Some women are also capable of having orgasms by internal stimulation of the vagina, most are not.
Some women may need half an hour of continuous stimulation to climax, many men don’t last that long. For some women the kind of clitoral stimulation that’s get by contact during intercourse is not sufficient.
That is why, or at least what I have read, is that the Church permits the man to manually/orally stimulate the woman, or the woman to manually stimulate herself to achieve climax as long as it’s a part of an act that at some point includes the man ejaculating inside the woman. Do you disagree that this is Church teaching? This is what I have seen many times on this forum, and as far as I know is what is taught by people like Christopher West.
I’m not even saying these things to argue, I’m trying to help the OP resolve his difficulty between his wife’s sexual preferences and his desire to follow the Church.
I’m saying that my opinion is your “help” to the OP might be misguided. There are issues in his marriage that surpass what goes on (or doesn’t go on) in bed - such as the major dilemma: she seems unwilling to accept his faith. HUGE, and surely at the heart of their multiple problems. This is a four-yr old marriage where such basics are still unsettled?There is no correct or incorrect here, as women are different. Some women are also capable of having orgasms by internal stimulation of the vagina, most are not.
Some women may need half an hour of continuous stimulation to climax, many men don’t last that long. For some women the kind of clitoral stimulation that’s get by contact during intercourse is not sufficient.
That is why, or at least what I have read, is that the Church permits the man to manually/orally stimulate the woman, or the woman to manually stimulate herself to achieve climax as long as it’s a part of an act that at some point includes the man ejaculating inside the woman. Do you disagree that this is Church teaching? This is what I have seen many times on this forum, and as far as I know is what is taught by people like Christopher West.
I’m not even saying these things to argue, I’m trying to help the OP resolve his difficulty between his wife’s sexual preferences and his desire to follow the Church.
Again I repeat, assuming her sexual satisfaction/dissatifaction is primary to the problems of this major is a leap into the dark. How/why does the OP believe that his wife has no respect for his FAITH. Red flag, red flag, red flag, etc…I think you are quite correct here and those women who have no trouble having an orgasm from intercourse alone should be grateful. There is no way they can know what other women do or don’t experience.
So, thus far, I have argued that the Church clearly teaches that oral sex is wrong when a couple chooses to separate the act from sexual intercourse and merely achieve orgasm(s). However, what happens when a married couple wishes to use oral sex as a means of foreplay? This is where language and wording becomes tricky… for would this action be called oral sex, or oral stimulation? In the case of foreplay before sexual intercourse, the act is more properly called oral stimulation. By engaging in this activity, the couple wishes to promote orgasm during the intercourse that follows. As Christopher West points out, this is morally acceptable:
The acts by which spouses lovingly prepare each other for genital intercourse (foreplay) are honorable and good. But stimulation of each other’s genitals to the point of climax apart from an act of normal intercourse is nothing other than mutual masturbation… An important point of clarification is needed. Since it’s the male orgasm that’s inherently linked with the possibility of new life, the husband must never intentionally ejaculate outside of his wife’s vagina. Since the female orgasm, however, isn’t necessarily linked to the possibility of conception, so long as it takes place within the overall context of an act of intercourse, it need not, morally speaking, be during actual penetration… Ideally, the wife’s orgasm would happen simultaneously with her husband’s [orgasm], but this is easier said than done for many couples. In fact, if the wife’s orgasm isn’t achieved during the natural course of foreplay and consummation, it would be the loving thing for the husband to stimulate his wife to climax thereafter (if she so desired).[5]
Well, to be fair to the wife the husband is only recently starting to follow his faith.I’m saying that my opinion is your “help” to the OP might be misguided. There are issues in his marriage that surpass what goes on (or doesn’t go on) in bed - such as the major dilemma: she seems unwilling to accept his faith. HUGE, and surely at the heart of their multiple problems. This is a four-yr old marriage where such basics are still unsettled?
YIKES!
Yet I’m guessing she knew she married a Catholic.Well, to be fair to the wife the husband is only recently starting to follow his faith.
That’s the general modern understanding, yes, though it has not been definitively stated by the Church.nds.edu/old/well-Palermo.htm
Seems what he’s saying is that oral and manual stimulation is okay before/during intercourse as foreplay, and if the woman fails to orgasm during intercourse it’s okay to keep going with oral/manual stimulation so that she climaxes as well.
Okay, but how does this help the OP? His wife is not Catholic, his wife does not like intercourse but likes mutual masturbation.Yet I’m guessing she knew she married a Catholic.
Things happen and things change.
Refusing intercourse is refusing conception, a rather significant refusal.
I think this is just trying to patch over the problem.Okay, but how does this help the OP? His wife is not Catholic, his wife does not like intercourse but likes mutual masturbation.
In my opinion, the best solution to his problem would be to do the mutual masturbation but ask the wife if he can ejaculate inside her at the last minute. This would make the mutual masturbation foreplay, would mean there is intercourse in the overall act, and would be consistent with Church teaching.
That is what you said originally and what you are saying now. But let’s be honest here, the bulk of your prior posts were about disagreeing with FF’s position regarding the need for extra-coital stimulation for many women to achieve orgasm.Again I repeat, assuming her sexual satisfaction/dissatifaction is primary to the problems of this major is a leap into the dark. How/why does the OP believe that his wife has no respect for his FAITH. Red flag, red flag, red flag, etc…
I am unwilling to step into the bedroom around your guess.Okay, but how does this help the OP? His wife is not Catholic, his wife does not like intercourse but likes mutual masturbation.
In my opinion, the best solution to his problem would be to do the mutual masturbation but ask the wife if he can ejaculate inside her at the last minute. This would make the mutual masturbation foreplay, would mean there is intercourse in the overall act, and would be consistent with Church teaching.