Marriage Issue - Lost and Confused

[Serap]

Oh yes, we’ve been over this together several times. He said that when we were married he was attracted to me and cared about me. It just wasn’t “love” because he didn’t feel a connection.

But I’m guessing that his feelings toward me right now are way worse than his feelings toward me when we got married because he gets angry with any form of affection. He says that he doesn’t love me because he doesn’t feel that connection. Of course he’s not feeling a connection because he’s so angry.

I do wish that the counselor had ideas on how move forward in a positive way. It seems like we are just going around in circles here.

You guys will go around in circles for a while until DH is has exhausted his thoughts. He will then either leave you or CHOOSE to love you and feel connected to you.

 

[bernadettefaith]

From what you’ve told me, he is not capable of faking anything. Take him at face value. If he’s acting loving, he loves you. That’s the kind of guy he is. He is not very complicated really

Yeah I believe that he did love me. He is now looking back at some of the terrible things I’ve done and regrets putting up with them. I think that he chose to look past it at the time but realizes that it was a bigger deal than he thought. So now all of his love is buried in anger. I hope that makes sense.

The challenge is getting out of the anger cycle. I can’t guarantee that we can do it but I can try my hardest.

 

[bernadettefaith]

You guys will go around in circles for a while until DH is has exhausted his thoughts. He will then either leave you or CHOOSE to love you and feel connected to you.

I hope so. He believes in love at first sight and “falling in love” so I fear that he does not see love as a choice

 

[MJJean]

Oh yes, we’ve been over this together several times. He said that when we were married he was attracted to me and cared about me. It just wasn’t “love” because he didn’t feel a connection.

But I’m guessing that his feelings toward me right now are way worse than his feelings toward me when we got married because he gets angry with any form of affection. He says that he doesn’t love me because he doesn’t feel that connection. Of course he’s not feeling a connection because he’s so angry.

I do wish that the counselor had ideas on how move forward in a positive way. It seems like we are just going around in circles here.

Connection doesn’t just magically appear. It takes effort to connect with another human, even if you are head over heels in love. Trust me. I love my husband with all my heart and soul. He loves me the same way. But there are times when we aren’t very connected. Either we’re too stressed, busy, too drained from work/kids or simply angry at each other. And that’s when someone says “Hey, let’s spend some you and me time!” so that we can connect. If we didn’t choose to connect and reconnect we’d be in big trouble.

You guys will go around in circles for a while until DH is has exhausted his thoughts. He will then either leave you or CHOOSE to love you and feel connected to you.

Love is a choice, absolutely.

Yeah I believe that he did love me. He is now looking back at some of the terrible things I’ve done and regrets putting up with them. I think that he chose to look past it at the time but realizes that it was a bigger deal than he thought. So now all of his love is buried in anger. I hope that makes sense.

The challenge is getting out of the anger cycle. I can’t guarantee that we can do it but I can try my hardest.

Arrrgh! That’s just maddeningly frustrating to read. I can only imagine how you must feel living with your DH right now. I’d be fantasizing about tossing him over a cliff and then dropping an anvil on his head Looney Toons style. In a marriage no one is innocent. You both put up with each others crud. Big deals and a thousand annoying little deals, you put up with it because you love each other and made a commitment. That’s how it works. Then you let go, move on, and keep loving each other. He’s just not letting go of the past. He seems to be nurturing his anger and hurt. What he needs to do is nurture his good feelings toward you. Prime the pump, so to speak. Nurture loving feelings by acting loving, even if he isn’t really feeling it, so that he can actually start to feel it.

And I can relate to the love at first sight thing. I actually fell in love at first sight with my DH. He didn’t realize he loved me for a few months, but I literally knew the minute I saw him. I knew he was “The One” before I even knew his name. The problem was, years and a lot of unnecessary drama later, I realized that love at first sight was just a foot in the door and the rest takes actual effort.

Love is a lot like a houseplant. If you take care of it, it flourishes. If you don’t, it shrivels down to the roots. We, as committed married people, have to consciously nurture the love. It doesn’t mean we don’t really love each other or that we’re somehow forcing a fake feeling. It just means that we’re consciously choosing to take care of our relationship and feelings the same way we take care of anything else that matters to us.

 

[bernadettefaith]

I agree that marriage involves putting up with another person’s craziness. I did have my fair share of crazy times. I used to argue a point and try to get him to see my way - and I’m pretty relentless. He says that this scared him. I can see that he wanted to avoid conflict and valued peace. On the other hand, if I argue with someone else (like my mother) she would always refuse to back down and we’d have to agree to disagree. I guess I didn’t understand that he felt forced to back down by the way I acted. I do think it’s a maturity thing and I realize that the small details don’t matter as much as I thought they would.

I’ve totally put up with some crazy stuff on his end, but I’ll admit that I’m probably the more difficult of the two of us.

 

[CatholicRaven]

It sounds like maybe he has felt a lot of disrespect from you in the past, and he’s having a hard time with that, because a lot of men don’t feel loved or “connected” when they feel disrespected and/or unneeded. It also takes a toll on their self-esteem.

It also appears to me that he’s saying these negative things to get a reaction from you that gets him what he wants–when he complains about how you used to treat him, you listen to him (probably without arguing), and you submit to his view, and you apologize, and then he feels some amount of respect from you from those things. So he continues to complain (even about the same things) because he continues to want that feeling of respect, but doesn’t seem to know another way to get it.

Now, of course I’m not saying you should stop listening to his complaints or argue with them, or not apologize. But perhaps it would help to ignore most of his negative talk (except to respectfully listen and acknowledge his feelings–though you don’t need to keep apologizing for the same things), and instead focus on ways you can show him and tell him that you need him and respect him NOW. You might even try flirting with him just a bit… gently at first, just letting him know with your body language and eyes that you find him attractive and desirable. Remember those shy smiles and soft touches, before you had a sexual relationship? Bring them back.

I can tell you from experience, it’s not always easy and it doesn’t get a lot easier with time to show respect (and avoid showing disrespect) in a way he understands, because men and women generally see respect differently… but I believe it’s worth the effort.

You are in my prayers.

 

[bernadettefaith]

It sounds like maybe he has felt a lot of disrespect from you in the past, and he’s having a hard time with that, because a lot of men don’t feel loved or “connected” when they feel disrespected and/or unneeded. It also takes a toll on their self-esteem.

It also appears to me that he’s saying these negative things to get a reaction from you that gets him what he wants–when he complains about how you used to treat him, you listen to him (probably without arguing), and you submit to his view, and you apologize, and then he feels some amount of respect from you from those things. So he continues to complain (even about the same things) because he continues to want that feeling of respect, but doesn’t seem to know another way to get it.

Now, of course I’m not saying you should stop listening to his complaints or argue with them, or not apologize. But perhaps it would help to ignore most of his negative talk (except to respectfully listen and acknowledge his feelings–though you don’t need to keep apologizing for the same things), and instead focus on ways you can show him and tell him that you need him and respect him NOW. You might even try flirting with him just a bit… gently at first, just letting him know with your body language and eyes that you find him attractive and desirable. Remember those shy smiles and soft touches, before you had a sexual relationship? Bring them back.

I can tell you from experience, it’s not always easy and it doesn’t get a lot easier with time to show respect (and avoid showing disrespect) in a way he understands, because men and women generally see respect differently… but I believe it’s worth the effort.

You are in my prayers.

Thank you for the prayers and suggestions

 

[Serap]

It sounds like maybe he has felt a lot of disrespect from you in the past, and he’s having a hard time with that, because a lot of men don’t feel loved or “connected” when they feel disrespected and/or unneeded. It also takes a toll on their self-esteem.

It also appears to me that he’s saying these negative things to get a reaction from you that gets him what he wants–when he complains about how you used to treat him, you listen to him (probably without arguing), and you submit to his view, and you apologize, and then he feels some amount of respect from you from those things. So he continues to complain (even about the same things) because he continues to want that feeling of respect, but doesn’t seem to know another way to get it.

WOW! That’s a really good point! I never thought of that! I bet it is subconscious.

Now, of course I’m not saying you should stop listening to his complaints or argue with them, or not apologize. But perhaps it would help to ignore most of his negative talk (except to respectfully listen and acknowledge his feelings–though you don’t need to keep apologizing for the same things), and instead focus on ways you can show him and tell him that you need him and respect him NOW. You might even try flirting with him just a bit… gently at first, just letting him know with your body language and eyes that you find him attractive and desirable. Remember those shy smiles and soft touches, before you had a sexual relationship? Bring them back.

Great advice here too!!!

I can tell you from experience, it’s not always easy and it doesn’t get a lot easier with time to show respect (and avoid showing disrespect) in a way he understands, because men and women generally see respect differently… but I believe it’s worth the effort.

You are in my prayers.

Men tend to fall in love with their eyes too. You could use your body language to your advantage also.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Oh and in regard to the obesity and self esteem issues that he had, he says that he put up with everything I did without saying anything because he lacked the self esteem to speak up. So now he’s mad at himself and me. He didn’t think he deserved any better so he never said anything.

 

[Serap]

Oh and in regard to the obesity and self esteem issues that he had, he says that he put up with everything I did without saying anything because he lacked the self esteem to speak up. So now he’s mad at himself and me. He didn’t think he deserved any better so he never said anything.

well at least he’s realizing things. just keep doing what you’re doing and hope for the best.

pray

 

[bernadettefaith]

We had counseling last night. We talked about the same old stuff…basically what we had discussed over the weekend about how badly I’ve hurt him. Again, it seems like we’re just going around in circles. I don’t know though, maybe it feels better for him to get the old hurt off of his chest. It’s really painful to relive old arguments.

He feels that I might not be truly remorseful and might just be afraid that he’s going to leave. I’m not sure how else I can prove that I’m not going to revert back to hurting him again.

On the positive side, he thinks that counseling helps him because he can talk to me in front of a 3rd party and he doesn’t feel afraid that I’m going to get angry. My hope is that we work with her enough that he can feel comfortable with me the rest of the time. I’m not really sure why he’s so extremely uncomfortable but if he thinks that the counselor helps I’ll leave it at that.

He also said that he noticed that I was texting him again during the work day and he liked it. He wants to have more communication.

It always feels like there’s no progress from one week to the next. I can’t tell what I should be seeing because I really don’t know what to expect.

 

[MJJean]

We had counseling last night. We talked about the same old stuff…basically what we had discussed over the weekend about how badly I’ve hurt him. Again, it seems like we’re just going around in circles. I don’t know though, maybe it feels better for him to get the old hurt off of his chest. It’s really painful to relive old arguments.

He feels that I might not be truly remorseful and might just be afraid that he’s going to leave. I’m not sure how else I can prove that I’m not going to revert back to hurting him again.

On the positive side, he thinks that counseling helps him because he can talk to me in front of a 3rd party and he doesn’t feel afraid that I’m going to get angry. My hope is that we work with her enough that he can feel comfortable with me the rest of the time. I’m not really sure why he’s so extremely uncomfortable but if he thinks that the counselor helps I’ll leave it at that.

He also said that he noticed that I was texting him again during the work day and he liked it. He wants to have more communication.

It always feels like there’s no progress from one week to the next. I can’t tell what I should be seeing because I really don’t know what to expect.

There is a difference between getting old hurts off your chest and letting them go vs repeatedly talking about those old hurts and basically holding on to them with both hands. Might be worth mentioning in counseling that you feel as if you are going around in circles and want to know when the hubby has to stop using his “I was hurt by you in the past” get out of jail free card. I get that being hurt and being scared of a spouses reaction is a big deal. I’ve been there. The most progress I saw in my own marriage was when we both realized we were using those past hurts to justify present behavior/feelings and we had to stop doing that to move forward into a close and more loving relationship.

My take, and I am far from a professional, is that he is holding on to past hurts to justify wanting a “do over”. He gets to point to past hurts and say “See? That’s why I don’t feel love for my wife and that’s why I want to basically undo my current life and start over!”

I don’t think any progress will really be made until he separates the past hurts from his pile of regrets and deals with them as separate issues. Once he does that he is likely to realize he does love you and that his regrets have nothing to do with you. They are his and his alone forged from choices he freely made. Which means he can’t hold them against you or the marriage. Most adults have some regrets about things they didn’t do or wish they had done differently. He’s not a special little snowflake, he is dealing with the same things everyone else deals with eventually, and it’s time to man up and make the best of his life with his family.

It is good that he is comfortable talking to you in front of a 3rd party, but unless you want your entire marriage handled in front of that 3rd party he is going to have to suck it up, have some courage, and talk to you like that when you aren’t in front of the counselor.

Wanting communication is great! That smells of progress.

 

[Serap]

There is a difference between getting old hurts off your chest and letting them go vs repeatedly talking about those old hurts and basically holding on to them with both hands. Might be worth mentioning in counseling that you feel as if you are going around in circles and want to know when the hubby has to stop using his “I was hurt by you in the past” get out of jail free card. I get that being hurt and being scared of a spouses reaction is a big deal. I’ve been there. The most progress I saw in my own marriage was when we both realized we were using those past hurts to justify present behavior/feelings and we had to stop doing that to move forward into a close and more loving relationship.

My take, and I am far from a professional, is that he is holding on to past hurts to justify wanting a “do over”. He gets to point to past hurts and say “See? That’s why I don’t feel love for my wife and that’s why I want to basically undo my current life and start over!”

I don’t think any progress will really be made until he separates the past hurts from his pile of regrets and deals with them as separate issues. Once he does that he is likely to realize he does love you and that his regrets have nothing to do with you. They are his and his alone forged from choices he freely made. Which means he can’t hold them against you or the marriage. Most adults have some regrets about things they didn’t do or wish they had done differently. He’s not a special little snowflake, he is dealing with the same things everyone else deals with eventually, and it’s time to man up and make the best of his life with his family.

It is good that he is comfortable talking to you in front of a 3rd party, but unless you want your entire marriage handled in front of that 3rd party he is going to have to suck it up, have some courage, and talk to you like that when you aren’t in front of the counselor.

Wanting communication is great! That smells of progress.

I have a bit of a different perspective than you do, so I think it’s good to share another “view” of this situation.

I think that he really was genuinely hurt at the time and he really did become afraid of Bernadette’s “temper” when he tried to express himself in the past. He felt rejected, unloved and incredibly hurt. He is in the process of dealing with the hurt and he needs to go over it again and again, so that he can eventually let it go.

I kinda agree with the counsellor’s suggestion that he may have PTSD right now. It may seem silly and trivial to us b/c we are feeling “that’s life, get over it already”, but if Bernadette’s husband really feels this level of hurt, he needs to get it all out so he can re-connect with her again.

Also, if he wants Bernadetter to start texting him during the day again…that is AMAZING progress. This is no turning around in circles. He WANTS to reconnect with his wife again and this is the first step to doing it.

Send him cute text messages during the day, but limit it to about 3 a day, so he doesn’t think you’re trying too hard - unless you are responding to a text that he has sent you of course.

Me thinks you are both making good progress here. Love is patient…love is kind…

 

[bernadettefaith]

Thanks ladies.

I do truly believe that he was hurt. I truly believe that part of him wants to get past the hurt. But I also believe that there’s part of him that’s hanging on to the past and doesn’t want to let go. He does fear that I’m going to hurt him again - I’m pretty sure of that.

What he doesn’t get is that another relationship would hurt him as well. Nobody is perfect and leaving isn’t necessarily going to make things better. I still think he wants to reserve leaving as a good option in the event things don’t get better with time. I don’t know if a religious counselor would tell him not to leave but the secular counselor definitely doesn’t want to make any judgments. On the flip side, it wouldn’t be good for him to stay because he felt pressured to stay - and he probably wouldn’t respect a counselor who was trying to force him to do something against his will.

I think part of the reason I get so frustrated is because I don’t want to become a doormat but at the same time I feel the need to stick around as I know I’ve hurt him. So I’m just totally conflicted. Does that make sense?

 

[Serap]

Thanks ladies.

I do truly believe that he was hurt. I truly believe that part of him wants to get past the hurt. But I also believe that there’s part of him that’s hanging on to the past and doesn’t want to let go. He does fear that I’m going to hurt him again - I’m pretty sure of that.

What he doesn’t get is that another relationship would hurt him as well. Nobody is perfect and leaving isn’t necessarily going to make things better. I still think he wants to reserve leaving as a good option in the event things don’t get better with time. I don’t know if a religious counselor would tell him not to leave but the secular counselor definitely doesn’t want to make any judgments. On the flip side, it wouldn’t be good for him to stay because he felt pressured to stay - and he probably wouldn’t respect a counselor who was trying to force him to do something against his will.

I think part of the reason I get so frustrated is because I don’t want to become a doormat but at the same time I feel the need to stick around as I know I’ve hurt him. So I’m just totally conflicted. Does that make sense?

Makes perfect sense. Ride it out. Sometimes when in stormy weather, we think it will never end and sure enough, there’s finally a break in the sky.

I don’t know what the future holds, but right now, he needs to feel supported and listened to. It’s hard b/c he’s being so negative. It would drive me bonkers. I hate negativity. My husband has a tendency to say, “Is this my ****ing life??? For real??? This is my existence???”

It’s hard when we have kids and men feel neglected b/c they are not your priority anymore. Mothers tend to make sacrifices without thinking about it, but men do it and lament over their lost life. It’s just the way it tends to be. Men need us wives to be supporting and we need to throw them a bone every now and then

 

[MJJean]

Thanks ladies.

I do truly believe that he was hurt. I truly believe that part of him wants to get past the hurt. But I also believe that there’s part of him that’s hanging on to the past and doesn’t want to let go. He does fear that I’m going to hurt him again - I’m pretty sure of that.

What he doesn’t get is that another relationship would hurt him as well. Nobody is perfect and leaving isn’t necessarily going to make things better. I still think he wants to reserve leaving as a good option in the event things don’t get better with time. I don’t know if a religious counselor would tell him not to leave but the secular counselor definitely doesn’t want to make any judgments. On the flip side, it wouldn’t be good for him to stay because he felt pressured to stay - and he probably wouldn’t respect a counselor who was trying to force him to do something against his will.

I think part of the reason I get so frustrated is because I don’t want to become a doormat but at the same time I feel the need to stick around as I know I’ve hurt him. So I’m just totally conflicted. Does that make sense?

Well, the reality is that if we care for someone we are opening ourselves up to hurt. He’s going to have to accept that reality and learn to express his hurt when it happens and then let it go.

I understand why a secular counselor wouldn’t want to make any judgments or suggest that someone do something against their will, but staying in his marriage wouldn’t be against his will. He exercised his will and made a lifetime commitment that he should honor. This is true for both religious and secular people.

Of course you don’t want to be a doormat and yet don’t want to be too firm for fear of hurting him again when things are at so delicate a stage. I think you’ll have to find a way to kindly tell him when he is being out of line and unnecessarily whiny or cruel. It’s not easy, but it can be done. Tone of voice, body language, and phrasing make a huge difference. If you do say something and he doesn’t understand what you’re getting at you can always tell him that he mistook your meaning and that you want to rephrase so that he can understand. I’ve had to rephrase the same thing a few times before the light bulb went on over my husbands head, lol.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Makes perfect sense. Ride it out. Sometimes when in stormy weather, we think it will never end and sure enough, there’s finally a break in the sky.

I don’t know what the future holds, but right now, he needs to feel supported and listened to. It’s hard b/c he’s being so negative. It would drive me bonkers. I hate negativity. My husband has a tendency to say, “Is this my ****ing life??? For real??? This is my existence???”

It’s hard when we have kids and men feel neglected b/c they are not your priority anymore. Mothers tend to make sacrifices without thinking about it, but men do it and lament over their lost life. It’s just the way it tends to be. Men need us wives to be supporting and we need to throw them a bone every now and then

I agree but he insists that the kids don’t have anything to do with the problem He does seem to focus all of his attention and affection on the kids right now.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Well, the reality is that if we care for someone we are opening ourselves up to hurt. He’s going to have to accept that reality and learn to express his hurt when it happens and then let it go.

I understand why a secular counselor wouldn’t want to make any judgments or suggest that someone do something against their will, but staying in his marriage wouldn’t be against his will. He exercised his will and made a lifetime commitment that he should honor. This is true for both religious and secular people.

Of course you don’t want to be a doormat and yet don’t want to be too firm for fear of hurting him again when things are at so delicate a stage. I think you’ll have to find a way to kindly tell him when he is being out of line and unnecessarily whiny or cruel. It’s not easy, but it can be done. Tone of voice, body language, and phrasing make a huge difference. If you do say something and he doesn’t understand what you’re getting at you can always tell him that he mistook your meaning and that you want to rephrase so that he can understand. I’ve had to rephrase the same thing a few times before the light bulb went on over my husbands head, lol.

I’ve tried telling him when he’s being out of line, but it ends up making him even angrier He just thinks that I don’t understand quite how hurt he really is. I don’t know but I think I can see that he’s extremely hurt.

The counselor said to me individually that she wants to see marriages work. But on the other hand she never tries to encourage us to stay married. Not that she encourages divorce either - but she doesn’t make commitment a priority.

 

[MJJean]

I’ve tried telling him when he’s being out of line, but it ends up making him even angrier He just thinks that I don’t understand quite how hurt he really is. I don’t know but I think I can see that he’s extremely hurt.

Maybe ask him to rephrase until you understand?

 

[bernadettefaith]

Well I guess the problem is that I’m not sure if he’s being out of line. He’s hurt by I don’t know how long it’s reasonable to expect him to stay angry. He feels his anger is justified. I get that in a way, but I also don’t think it should give him a free pass out of the marriage. I’m also afraid that with the lack of intimacy it won’t be possible to get it back.

On the other hand, he shows some desire to work on things despite the negativity.