Mary as Immaculate Conception

[TEPO]

In Tim. 2:5 It says…For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the name is Christ Jesus;

Yes indeed… But concearning prayer?? I think NOT. Jesus is the mediator between God and us referring to the fact that God sent Jesus down here to earth as the physical mediator…

Not that Jesus is the Mediator of prayer…

 

[TEPO]

Jesus gives us the Eucharist too, to “mediate” the Body of the Church with it’s Head. And Jesus then as its Head, mediates with God which He is a part of…

We’re all so connected… Wierd huh.

But in the end, the Eucharist links us to Jesus closer than anything. We’re so close in fact, that we go even further in prayer, to ask one of Gods own Saints to side with us on our petitions.

 

[TEPO]

I think our differences ultimately lie in the fact that your prayers are your main link to Jesus… While in the catholic Church, the Holy Eucharist as well as our prayers link us to Jesus…

Maybe true Catholics are just that much more like Jesus… Maybe we love our mother so much -because Jesus lives in us.

Thank you Jesus for the Holy Eucharist.

 

[Des]

Oh my goodness…the “thee” means YOU…Please.

And that means what exactly? Especially since my point was that the word ‘pray’ had nothing to do with worship as those verses prove.

I think you’ll say just about anything even if it makes zero sense because you really don’t have much of a defence do you Leslie.

 

[TEPO]

I guess protestants must feel some sort of “loss” or “betrayal” to Jesus if they were to include Mary in their prayers, or even honor her. It seems as if prayer is their only link to Jesus…

How sad. :bighanky:

 

[JustaServant]

From the Catechism:

The Immaculate Conception

490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace”.133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race

, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135

492 The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”.136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” **and chose her “in Christ **before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love”.137

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia), and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature”.138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.

 

[Louemma]

Yes, but at least The Passion of the Christ had some decent music from the talented John Debney. ‘Ripping’ the DVD of The Passion just to provide some emotive images as a backdrop to the lyrically and musically -challenged Revelation Song is just plain tacky.

(Probably illegal, too)

That would be the opinion of some,but not all and that I am positive of that.Tacky in what way may I ask?Consider your answer because the song and video is not only a reminder to the Christians what our Lord and Savior done for each and everyone.This song and video is geared towards a lost and dying world.You have no ideal how many people that either watched The Passion of the Christ or this song and video came to realize just exactly the suffering that our Blessed Savior went through on the day he died for the world’s sins.
You call that tacky?Or perhaps you did not like the reminder of what Your Lord and Savior done for you?

 

[Louemma]

Chapter and verse please.

To understand the full power of prayer using the name of Jesus,
John 14;13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name,that I will do,that the Father may be glorified in the son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask anything in my name,I will do it.

I love verse 14.We are confident by the words of Jesus that anything we ask in His Name,He will do!

 

[Louemma]

youtube.com/watch?v=A1oHJR2g7Tw&feature=fvw

Instead of complaining,one should listen to the words and understand that we all are running the same race,towards the same goal!

 

[PRmerger]

To understand the full power of prayer using the name of Jesus,
John 14;13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name,that I will do,that the Father may be glorified in the son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask anything in my name,I will do it.

I love verse 14.We are confident by the words of Jesus that anything we ask in His Name,He will do!

Adrian was asking for a verse that said this:

Originally Posted by Leslie Polley
I have said VERY clearly that you MUST pray through ONLY jesus to get to the Father…that is scriptual.

The verses you cited, while beautiful, do not answer Adrian’s question.

Indeed, [SIGN1]there is no verse that states[/SIGN1] that you MUST pray through ONLY jesus to get to the Father.

 

[Louemma]

Adrian was asking for a verse that said this:

The verses you cited, while beautiful, do not answer Adrian’s question.

Indeed, [SIGN1]there is no verse that states[/SIGN1] that you MUST pray through ONLY jesus to get to the Father.

And I know this does not answer Adrian’s question.But it is a beautiful verse.
There is scripture stating that Jesus is the only way to the Father,however I did not want to engage in that conversation.Still don’t

 

[Louemma]

youtube.com/watch?v=A1oHJR2g7Tw&feature=fvw

Instead of complaining,one should listen to the words and understand that we all are running the same race,towards the same goal!

Bumping this post

 

[guanophore]

They refer to Christ as Marys First born…If He was the only child she had the reference would not have been such…indicating that Mary had other children. You are grieving the Holy Spirit and I want no part of this post…

When you are ready to give some serious study to the history of your faith, Leslie, you will find that this title carries privileges with it and has no bearing on what happens afterward.

I think you want no part of the post because a very simple exercise in logic and evidence will demonstrate that your understanding of the meaning of the scriptures is erroneous. You are right, this refusal to think really does grieve the HS.

 

[Louemma]

 

[guanophore]

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God…All…With the exception of Christ …

I think if you look at the source of the quote, it will become clear to you that there are two groups being referenced here, the sinners, and the righteous. Paul is making a point that faithless Jews have no advantage over faithless Gentiles.

.God did not prevent Mary from sinning because that would be a conntradiction for God , interfearing with our free will, and No where in scripture does it say that He did. He gave all of us a free will including Mary…

What you say here is absolutely true. The Church never has, and does not now, claim that God prevented Mary from sinning. She chose not to sin, just as He expects all of us to do. He gave her the grace to successfully do this, just as He does to all of us.

The immaculate conseption was Christ....He was born without sin...He is the Son of God......Mary was born with original sin, and yes she too needed to recognize Christ as her Saviour, and yes she sinned because it does not say she was sinnless......If she lost her temper...sin, if she told a lie of any kind, sin, etc.  ....THere was no exception for her.  She is not on the same level as Christ and no amount of dogmas, tradition, etc will change that fact.  Not even close or she would have been talked about much  more....You do not even hear a mention of her after Penacost.

Leslie, you have received a truncated version of the faith. I hope you will remain here at CAF, and discover the rich depth from which you have been separated.

there is no record of Mary sinning. for some reason, you seem to believe that it is not possible to refrain from sin, and this is a contradiction of the reason for the death of Christ on the cross, who died to free us from sin.

 

[PRmerger]

What you say here is absolutely true. The Church never has, and does not now, claim that God prevented Mary from sinning. She chose not to sin, just as He expects all of us to do. He gave her the grace to successfully do this, just as He does to all of us.

Indeed.

I heard an analogy by our wonderful parish priest that explained this concept of free will/freedom from sinning this way:

Picture a woman living in a cabin in the woods on a hill. From her elevated position she can see the origin of a river. A town is dumping sewage into the river. Downstream there is a family living near the river. From their position they cannot see that a town is dumping sewage into the river, so they drink from that river.

However, the woman, from her vantage point, can see that the river is polluted–*and while she certainly **has the free will *to drink from the river–has no desire to do so.

That, I think, is a wonderful way to portray the fact that there is no contradiction between having free will and never sinning.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

That would be the opinion of some,but not all and that I am positive of that.Tacky in what way may I ask?Consider your answer because the song and video is not only a reminder to the Christians what our Lord and Savior done for each and everyone.This song and video is geared towards a lost and dying world.You have no ideal how many people that either watched The Passion of the Christ or this song and video came to realize just exactly the suffering that our Blessed Savior went through on the day he died for the world’s sins.
You call that tacky?Or perhaps you did not like the reminder of what Your Lord and Savior done for you?

Oh, I’ve no problem with The Passion of the Christ - a very Catholic movie, as (name removed by moderator) has noted. Marrying it to mediocre pap like the Revelation Song is what’s tacky.

And, frankly, I - and I expect most Catholics here - didn’t have to wait until the appearance of The Passion of the Christ or Kari Jobe’s travesty of a video and mediocre music and lyrics to realise how much Our Lord suffered for our sins.

 

[guanophore]

Because the doctrine is wrong

Leslie, what brings you here to CAF? Did you come here to tell us that our doctrine is wrong? If so, what is the motive or purpose of your quest?

Your wrong…

If you have rejected the Church founded by Christ upon Peter (the Rock) as your posts seem to indicate, why did you come to a Catholic forum? Why would it matter what had been preserved of the Apostles’ teaching in the Catholic Church?

Yes she did have other childre, …

You have been shown that all the scriptural references to the brothers and sisters of the Lord that all of these children come from other mothers and fathers. Most of them belonged to another Mary who is called the “sister” of the Mother of the Lord. She could have been a sister of Joseph, or married to her own brother. This information is not given. All we know is that they are near kindred of Jesus, grew up with Him in Nazareth, and were not children of Mary. It is possible they were children of Joseph from a previous marriage. In the East, James, the “brother of the Lord” is depicted as an older stepbrother of Christ (the son of Joseph).

, yes she was a sinner as we are

You have no scriptural evidence to support this claim.

no she was not assumed into heaven or it would have been documented in the Bible,and she is not mentioned after Pentacost…

You seem to be suffering under a misapprehension that everything pertaining to our faith would be “mentioned in the Bible”.

Since Catholics see Mary mentioned in Scripture “after Pentecost” then I guess you are just reading scripture with anti-Catholic blinders.

.Now I think that is odd for someone you have elevated as almost an equal to God…

Leslie, I don’t know what kind of doctrinal contamination you have suffered, so you may not realize that it is God’s intention to redeem all of us, and we will all have resurrected bodies. This does not “elevate” us equal to God. We have been made partakers of the Divine nature. That means, we enjoy by grace what He is by nature. Why does it bother you that Jesus would want to preserve His mother from corruption? Did you not have a very good relationship with your mum? It seems to me that people who bring calumnies against the mother of the Lord don’t understand the love a Son has for His mother.

What makes you think that He would not, or could not, make her a pure vessel for Himself?

Sacred vessels, once dedicated to the service of the Holy, are never returned to daily use.

 

[Louemma]

Oh, I’ve no problem with The Passion of the Christ - a very Catholic movie, as (name removed by moderator) has noted. Marrying it to mediocre pap like the Revelation Song is what’s tacky.

And, frankly, I - and I expect most Catholics here - didn’t have to wait until the appearance of The Passion of the Christ or Kari Jobe’s travesty of a video and mediocre music and lyrics to realise how much Our Lord suffered for our sins.

This is true when you say Christians know how much our Lord suffered.But I bet the message was not sent for the ones who are whole but for those that are sick?Besides all this I think the revelation song is Really praising God either way you look at it.Remember King David dancing and praising God and who was it his wife(Saul’s daughter)she also thought that was tacky.Can’t please everyone!

 

[guanophore]

In Matthew 12 46-50…While he yet talked to the people behold his mother and his brethren stood without dwsiring to speak with him. 47. Then one said unto him Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without desiring to speak with thee. 48. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my bretheren? 49. And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother and sister and mother.

So does this mean that Mary is not his mother either? Probably not, however she was there with his brothers, and he held non of them above anyone else who did the will of his Father. He did not speak with them…Mary or his brothers…So either he had brothers and Mary was his mother, or not. I think Mary was his mother and he had brothers, but he did not place any of them above the people he was talking to. Interesting isn’t it.
And the only person I had to be submisive to was my husband, and since he has passed away, now its God I am submisive to.

No, but then, you don’t know that He did not speak to them. For all we know, when He finished teaching, He got up, went out, and gave His mother a big hug and a kiss!

No woman of that culture in that day, or in this travelled alone without a male companion, either a husband, uncle, brother etc. Only prostitutes travelled unaccompanied by a male family member. One must understand the clan structure to make sense of the kinship and the idea of “brother or sister”. Anyone who was too close for marriage was considered a brother, sister, uncle, aunt. This is why it was such a grievious sin for Tamar to be violated by her half brother. It was considered incest.

As far as your submission, Leslie, you are being called to submit to the successor of Peter.